I want to know more about Messianic Judaism

[Mr. Donut]

May we presume then that you are not Torah observant, since you link to 'grace only' evangelical organizations?

Really? No, you may not presume any such thing. Why would you?
It is not a presumption I would ever make. I was only providing links to multiple sites so as to provide a broader representation of Congregations that call themselves "Messianic Jewish Congregations" today. This bothers you in what way that you ask of my personal Torah observance?

Does this one suit you better?
Messianic Judaism -Follow Torah and Yeshua?Messianic Judaism beliefs and Torah

Or this one:
Messianic Jewish - Frequently Asked Questions

As I said before, there are Messianics in many styles, colors, shapes and sizes.
(I would say flavors, but that may be a bit creepy for some...)

 

[ChavaK]

Many argue that it is wrong for a gentile to even attempt to keep the Torah, for example the Shabbat. Do you agree?

It's no issue, except Gentiles should not keep shabbat as Jews do. Not a problem as most Gentiles don't.

On the other hand, you maybe referring to something entirely different? What exactly did you mean, as I might agree.

Following any Jewish law or custom or culture that did not exist at the time of Jesus, or which is not explicitly listed in the Torah. Celebrating Purim the ways Jews do, or the shabbat customs (challah, candle lighting, havdalah for a few examples) bar/bat mitzahs, yarmulkes, jewish services....

 

[yedida]

UMJC and MJAA certainly are not "grace only evangelical organizations".

I don't see them as 'grace only" but I also don't see them teaching strong Torah Observance. I've always thought they should be more vocal in that area but made the assumption that since they were created in the beginning for Jews coming to Yeshua that they just figured that part of it was a given...

 

[etZion]

It's no issue, except Gentiles should not keep shabbat as Jews do. Not a problem as most Gentiles don't.

Can you be more specific on this point, what distinguishes Shabbat that Jews keep that Gentiles do differently?

Following any Jewish law or custom or culture that did not exist at the time of Jesus, or which is not explicitly listed in the Torah.

Fully agreed, and I will take it further, or not kept or taught by the Apostles and Yeshua Himself.

Celebrating Purim the ways Jews do, or the shabbat customs (challah, candle lighting, havdalah for a few examples) bar/bat mitzahs, yarmulkes, jewish services....

I agree with this, as this is not biblical but Jewish culture and should be maintained as Jewish culture.

 

[A_Pioneer]

The Way was totally Jewish, only they believed in the coming of the Messiah!
Therefore Messianic Judaism.

 

[ChavaK]

Hello everyone, thank you for posting in this thread. I am sure I will learn a lot and have questions. I have been having some problems lately with migraines and today was a bad day. But I will be back as soon as I have the concentration and lucidity to really take in what you've written. God bless you all.

Faithfully,

This is the perfect place to come to ask questions....sorry to hear about
your migraines, I used to get them (I guess I finally got old enough to
outgrow them, although I still get ocular migraines). they are nasty things....

 

[Lulav]

Hello everyone, thank you for posting in this thread. I am sure I will learn a lot and have questions. I have been having some problems lately with migraines and today was a bad day. But I will be back as soon as I have the concentration and lucidity to really take in what you've written. God bless you all.

Faithfully,

Shalom sacerdote, I will pray for relief from your migraine, I am well aquainted with the pain and the accompanying 'side effect's, please go rest, and come back refreshed and clear headed, (You'll need it! )

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Hello everyone, thank you for posting in this thread. I am sure I will learn a lot and have questions. I have been having some problems lately with migraines and today was a bad day. But I will be back as soon as I have the concentration and lucidity to really take in what you've written. God bless you all.

Faithfully,

Praying that the Lord would give you grace for your headache and that you'd feel better

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Some links that may help:

Association of Messianic Congregations - What We Believe

MJAA: Teaching Jewish Roots

http://www.umjc.org/faith-and-values/statement-of-faith

IAMCS | What We Believe - Statement of Faith

Good resources--from people who love the Law/Torah and yet understand the reality of Christ in His blood/sacrifice giving things purpose...and the places you gave are beautiful since they speak from a Jewish perspective, with thoughts by Jews. Often, what seems to come up in many places today is from the perspective of Gentiles trying to be Jews and then telling other Jewish believers they're not "Jewish" enough for not doing things/advocating things that they've deemed to be "Jewish" even when the early church itself (the Jewish believers, specifically) never pushed for that nor do those in Judais, consider it Jewish.

 

[yedida]

Can you be more specific on this point, what distinguishes Shabbat that Jews keep that Gentiles do differently?



Fully agreed, and I will take it further, or not kept or taught by the Apostles and Yeshua Himself.



I agree with this, as this is not biblical but Jewish culture and should be maintained as Jewish culture.

Are you a Jewish born and raised Messianic? If not, then why are you flying the scroll because all those things are what Messianics do. If Messianics don't do those things, what in God's name makes them any different from the average sunday church goer? No one yet has given me an answer to this question. I'm really wanting to know. I'm totally baffled as to what it is that makes one a Messianic if they don't do any of those things except maybe keep shabbat to a degree. That simply makes one a sabbatarian, not a Messianic. Enlighten me PLEASE!!

 

[xDenax]

Are you a Jewish born and raised Messianic? If not, then why are you flying the scroll because all those things are what Messianics do. If Messianics don't do those things, what in God's name makes them any different from the average sunday church goer? No one yet has given me an answer to this question. I'm really wanting to know. I'm totally baffled as to what it is that makes one a Messianic if they don't do any of those things except maybe keep shabbat to a degree. That simply makes one a sabbatarian, not a Messianic. Enlighten me PLEASE!!

Chava mentioned things that are not discussed in the Torah. Are you saying a Messainic has to do these extra things to be considered Messianic?

 

[ChavaK]

Can you be more specific on this point, what distinguishes Shabbat that Jews keep that Gentiles do differently?

Observing the 39 melachot. Even people in the process of converting to Judaism are supposed to break shabbas until after their conversion is
complete.

 

[yedida]

Yeshua kept Shabbat and we are to imitate Him, do as He did, walk as He walked.

 

[ChavaK]

If Messianics don't do those things, what in God's name makes them any different from the average sunday church goer? No one yet has given me an answer to this question.

Observe the written Torah. Rest on shabbas, follow the hagim. Develop
one's own observances not based on Jewish customs and traditions.
Follow the kashruth laws as outlined in the Torah

Should one do things that are not based on the written Torah just to
differentiate themselves from non-Messinaic Christians?

 

[ChavaK]

Chava, I don't understand. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Besides, we look to our Jewish brethren for many things. In most cases from the Messianic camp, it is not malevolent.

Well, I can't discuss it here without breaking every law in the books.
I've probably already gotten close to the line, so I better watch myself

 

[etZion]

Are you a Jewish born and raised Messianic? If not, then why are you flying the scroll because all those things are what Messianics do. If Messianics don't do those things, what in God's name makes them any different from the average sunday church goer? No one yet has given me an answer to this question. I'm really wanting to know. I'm totally baffled as to what it is that makes one a Messianic if they don't do any of those things except maybe keep shabbat to a degree. That simply makes one a sabbatarian, not a Messianic. Enlighten me PLEASE!!

Hey yedida, the Torah is not Jewish, it is not ethnic, it is the word of God, the debate is over traditions not scripture.

If I could summarize it, is it wrong for Gentiles who are part of the Messianic movement or Christianity to keep traditions among that of Modern Judaism, Chavak says yes, if I understand her correctly. I partially agree, although sharing some forms of traditions and walking away from Torah with similar traditions should be considered not a copy... Even protestant Christianity shares similar traditions with Catholicism, even though they are not trying to copy Catholicism.

ChavaK, take for example, Yeshua keeping a Passover seder, and the Apostles keeping many of the traditions shared in 1st Century Judaism, it is inevitable that we will share some traditions with Modern Judaism, just out of the simpleness of following the Messiah. Just as Paul told the Corinthians to celebrate the Passover, how were they going to do that, they might make the trek to Jerusalem, but more than likely, they kept a diaspora seder.

 

[xDenax]

Yeshua kept Shabbat and we are to imitate Him, do as He did, walk as He walked.

And is there a need to observe Shabbat beyond what's explicitly stated in the Torah?

 

[yedida]

Hey yedida, the Torah is not Jewish, it is not ethnic, it is the word of God, the debate is over traditions not scripture.

If I could summarize it, is it wrong for Gentiles who are part of the Messianic movement or Christianity to keep traditions among that of Modern Judaism, Chavak says yes, if I understand him correctly. I partially agree, although sharing some forms of traditions and walking away from Torah with similar traditions should be considered not a copy... Even protestant Christianity shares similar traditions with Catholicism, even though they are not trying to copy Catholicism.

Chavak, take for example, Yeshua keeping a Passover seder, and the Apostles keeping many of the traditions shared in 1st Century Judaism, it is inevitable that we will share some traditions with Modern Judaism, just out of the simpleness of following the Messiah. Just as Paul told the Corinthians to celebrate the Passover, how were they going to do that, they might make the trek to Jerusalem, but more than likely, they kept a diaspora seder.

First, you've called Chava "he/him" twice (I believe), if she won't correct you, I will. Our Chava is very much a lady.
I think we do many of the things as we do because it just makes sense - it doesn't take away from the Word, nor does it add anything. As far as my experience goes, it's not done lightly, and is done with the utmost respect for the tradition and the Jewish people.
The shul where I'm returning actually does not do Hamotzi as we don't meet on Fri evenings. When we do the feasts we usually do have the challah, the reason probably being, more than anything else, it's soooo blessed yummy; Hawaaiian (?sp) bread only running a close second in my opinion. We really don't try to "act" Jewish. Our leader is not our rabbi, he's our elder, our pastor, our shepherd, whichever we choose to call him.
I do agree that there are some places that go absolutely beserk with "Jewish" things and then do the one thing that will have most of them running away hard and fast, attempting to say the name with every other sentence. These I run away from! As far as I'm concerned, they do that, then their usage of other Judaica is likely to be just as offending.

And as per the norm, I answer questions asked of me and no one will answer my one big question. No takers?

 

[etZion]

First, you've called Chava "he/him" twice (I believe), if she won't correct you, I will. Our Chava is very much a lady.

Sorry, I did not pay attention to what was under her name, thanks for giving me the heads up, I edited my post.

I think we do many of the things as we do because it just makes sense - it doesn't take away from the Word, nor does it add anything. As far as my experience goes, it's not done lightly, and is done with the utmost respect for the tradition and the Jewish people.
The shul where I'm returning actually does not do Hamotzi as we don't meet on Fri evenings. When we do the feasts we usually do have the challah, the reason probably being, more than anything else, it's soooo blessed yummy; Hawaaiian (?sp) bread only running a close second in my opinion. We really don't try to "act" Jewish. Our leader is not our rabbi, he's our elder, our pastor, our shepherd, whichever we choose to call him.
I do agree that there are some places that go absolutely beserk with "Jewish" things and then do the one thing that will have most of them running away hard and fast, attempting to say the name with every other sentence. These I run away from! As far as I'm concerned, they do that, then their usage of other Judaica is likely to be just as offending.

Well, as I said, it is inevitable that we will keep some Jewish traditions in following in the footsteps of the Messiah, no way around it, wait actually there is, we could create a religion called Christianity.

And as per the norm, I answer questions asked of me and no one will answer my one big question. No takers?

What is your big question?

 

[xDenax]

And as per the norm, I answer questions asked of me and no one will answer my one big question. No takers?

I thought we were addressing it? Which Jewish traditions do you see as being necessary for the Messianic?