• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

I want to know more about Messianic Judaism

Chaplain David

CF Chaplain
Nov 26, 2007
15,989
2,353
USA
✟291,662.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Shalom,

Although I hope to participate in a few threads, I am starting this one specifically to find out more about the denomination or one could also say, branch of Christianity that is Messianic Judaism.

My first question is this.

What are the most important things to know to understand what Messianic Judaism is? (This doesn't have to be long).

Thank you in advance for your help. Also, I pray for this forum, for it's members, for your families, and for ever improving relationships between members and ever increasing knowledge and understanding from participating in the MJ forums.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

OP AMENDED TO INCLUDE: This OP will also include questions from other staff members working on the MJ Forum upgrade. 4-7-2012


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

God bless you.

Shalom.
 
Last edited:

Avodat

Contending for Biblical truth
Jul 2, 2011
4,188
315
✟28,927.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Private
Shalom,

Although I hope to participate in a few threads, I am starting this one specifically to find out more about the denomination or one could also say, branch of Christianity that is Messianic Judaism.

My first question is this.

What are the most important things to know to understand what Messianic Judaism is?

Thank you in advance for your help. Also, I pray for this forum, for it's members, for your families, and for ever improving relationships between members and ever increasing knowledge and understanding from participating in the MJ forums.

God bless you.

Welcome to the forum! :wave:

First thing to understand is that we are are neither a denomination nor a branch of Christianity. Messianic Judaism (which includes both Jews and Gentiles) stands in the gap between Judaism and Christianity and relates each to the other through our life, worship and witness.

Do you have a particular aspect you wish to ask about - it would take a very long post to cover everything? You could go to the sticky at the head of this forum that shows book, journals and websites about Messianic Judaism - that would be a good place for starters, apart from direct questions on here.

You may not, of course, debate or teach on here as you are not Messianic, yourself.
 
Upvote 0

Yahudim

Y'shua HaMoshiach Messianic
Site Supporter
Sep 30, 2004
3,993
622
Deep in the Heart of Texas
✟182,948.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Shalom sacerdote,

If you have read some of the threads that have focused on this question, you will quickly see that we are divided and mainly into two camps. Both of us see the origins Christianity as a part of Judaism. But over time, there has developed a pronounced division between these two belief systems.

The majority of Messianics believe that the first century congregations were Jewish in doctrine and theology, save for the obvious changes that the advent of Messiah and the destruction of the Temple brought. We see Messianic Judaism as a subset and sect of Judaism as defined by Messiah. We are Torah observant, believing that we are grafted into the covenant of Israel - the covenant itself being defined by Torah. It is the opinion of this group that you cannot be adopted under the covenant of Israel without being responsible to the terms of the covenant with Israel as it applies to the individual in the place and circumstance that they live. These too are addressed in Torah and by Messiah Y'shua.

The second camp, whether Jew of Gentile, is mainly populated with believers that think that Torah has been done away with and that they are not responsible to the statutes, commandments and precepts of the covenant of Israel. Most of this group follows the leading of the 'grace only' Christian organizations formed to evangelize the Jewish people.

In my personal perspective, this is the main difference between these two groups, though there are many more minor difference in doctrine and observance, much like modern Christianity. In closing, the Rabbinic Jews do not believe that Gentiles should follow Torah at all. They do not recognize the 'adoption', despite the teaching of Torah and Tanakh (Old Testament). They also strongly discourage Gentiles from converting.

Not at all comprehensive, but I hope that this helps.
 
Upvote 0

Gxg (G²)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2009
19,769
1,429
Good Ol' South...
Visit site
✟211,037.00
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Shalom,

Although I hope to participate in a few threads, I am starting this one specifically to find out more about the denomination or one could also say, branch of Christianity that is Messianic Judaism.

My first question is this.

What are the most important things to know to understand what Messianic Judaism is? (This doesn't have to be long).

Thank you in advance for your help. Also, I pray for this forum, for it's members, for your families, and for ever improving relationships between members and ever increasing knowledge and understanding from participating in the MJ forums.

God bless you.
Brother Sacerdote,

Before sharing anything in-depth, I was writing due to how I was curious as to what exactly you have done in terms of research when it comes to studies on what MJism is about? What specific sources did you come across and what are your reasons for wishing to know more, if I may ask? Do you have friends and families who are involved in MJish circles---or do you plan on attending a MJish circle yourself? Or is it simply for curiosity's sake? Either way, I'd love to find out since knowing where someone has come from/how they developed into their current understanding can help in interacting.

There are other threads which have some in-depth discussion, as well as sticky threads with references given on top of the forum...should you like more information. If interested, I'll try to give a comprehensive list of all of the main organizations in the MJish camp. For now, some places you can go in the immediate are threads like Some links to Messianic Judaism organizations..or here /here ( #47 ). Others that may help:

One of the main moderators of the forum, known as Tishri, is another excellent source of information for overview. She has recently been spearheading an attempt in clarifying the differing groups within MJism that are seen here---and it's because of her efforts that we have the forum set up where there are differing forums to represent others from specific streams of thought, even though we all come together in the main forum to party/try to have a good time in Messiah :)


There are many differing views, though the original viewpoint with MJism in the 60s/70s was that MJism itself is a subset of Christianity and spread out from there---with many seeing MJism as a form of Jewish Christianity (which in/of itself was a sub-set/sect of Judaism)..the ORIGINAL form practiced by the early church. Those within MJism love Torah, studying the Law and seeing the beauty in how it can apply for believers today...although the movement was originally begun in order to do outreach to the Jewish people who felt that much of the Church neglected its Jewish roots. There is a recognition of how Yeshua was Jewish, as were his disciples...and although we've been justified by the blood of Christ and God's grace, the Law still has application in the realm of teaching/instruction. Many Gentiles have also come into the movement in a desire to reach out to Jews (aka Ruth )---with the understanding within those Messianic congregations that Gentiles are not less acceptable before the Lord for not being Jewish/Hebrew and that it's a blessing to be a Gentile working alongside Jew, showing what it means to be "Jew and Gentile" united for Messiah...and redeemed by His Blood and sacrifice.



Of course, there are Gentiles who've also come into the movement in the mindset that Gentiles are meant to live as the Jews in all areas...something which has actually turned many Jews off. There are also those who may be Jewish and have sought in the name of "MJism" to essentially turn Gentiles into Jewish converts. Many within the MJish movement have noted this to be a form of counter-missionary work and what Paul condemned in the Book of Galatians when it came to ignoring the Grace of God whenever law came up. Additionally, due to the ways that the term "grace" has been abused by many within the Church to mean a liscence to sin, many tend to have a reactionary mindset in assuming all people who speak of God's grace believe that they don't value the Torah. This issue has been frequently addressed/clarified by the major MJish organizations and founders of the movement for decades when it comes to demonstrating how Grace/Torah are not counter to one another and are meant to work in Harmony. However, sadly, much contention tends to continue. If reading through the threads here on this forum, one may come across that dynamic rather quickly.

Many believers within the MJish camp have come/gone over the years---some who tend to come in/out when they have time and others who are here for seasons. Thus, while many things shared on this board are a reflection of some of the worlds existing within MJism, it is not always fully accurate as to showing what the history of the MJish movement has been over the years....and with that said, if I may say, I'd encourage you to continue in your own research and interactions with others. There is a good deal of diversity within the movement---truly a Mosaic in many ways-----and there are some more concerned with the way the movement began and others being the offshoots of the newer camps that've started up with the ideology of having Gentiles live as Jews fully...the most extreme DENOUNCING all aspects of Christianity as "worldy" or "Gentile" and only adhering to Judaism, even though much of Judaism sees the extreme camps as Gentiles trying to be what they were never meant to be. But again, the mainstream voices of MJism (i.e MJAA, IJMA, UMJC, etc) have often spoken on such matters. Hoping that this has been helpful...:)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

yedida

Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Oct 6, 2010
9,779
1,461
Elyria, OH
✟40,205.00
Faith
Marital Status
In Relationship
Yes, Tal spoke of the differences well. So many cooks. But we sincerely believe that we are much closer to the Judaism that Yeshua lived and taught than the christianity that later came to be. After all, in the beginning, Christianity was literally just another sect of Judaism along with sects of the Pharisees, Sadducees, Zealots, etc.
Please ask any specific questions that come to your mind. We do pretty well with specifics. But as Tal stated you will get several answers per just about any questions. That's one reason we're a little knee-jerky in here at the moment. I believe that most of us lean toward the one law, one family, one of everything. Anything else seems to have the Body of Yeshua split in all kinds of confusing directions. And that is never a good thing, confusion.
 
Upvote 0

ChavaK

להיות טוב ולעשות טוב
May 12, 2005
8,524
1,804
US
✟174,080.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Republican
Rabbinic Jews do not believe that Gentiles should follow Torah at all.
I don't think the issue is whether Gentiles should be following the Torah,
the issue is Gentiles attempting to live as Jews and copying Jewish
culture, etc, that did not exist at the time of Jesus.
They do not recognize the 'adoption'... They also strongly discourage Gentiles from converting.
This is true.
 
Upvote 0

etZion

A Dirty Gentile
Feb 2, 2012
555
63
✟23,535.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
I don't think the issue is whether Gentiles should be following the Torah,

Many argue that it is wrong for a gentile to even attempt to keep the Torah, for example the Shabbat. Do you agree?

the issue is Gentiles attempting to live as Jews and copying Jewish
culture, etc, that did not exist at the time of Jesus.

Jesus was/is a Jew, the scriptures tells us many times that we are to imitate Him... How far we are to take that imitation is up for debate, but none less imitators.

On the other hand, you maybe referring to something entirely different? What exactly did you mean, as I might agree.
 
Upvote 0

jcpro

Newbie
Jul 4, 2011
474
88
✟23,491.00
Faith
Judaism
I don't think the issue is whether Gentiles should be following the Torah,
the issue is Gentiles attempting to live as Jews and copying Jewish
culture, etc, that did not exist at the time of Jesus.

This is true.
And where is this going? A separate religion since there's no chance of building any kind of connection with Judaism?
 
Upvote 0

yedida

Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Oct 6, 2010
9,779
1,461
Elyria, OH
✟40,205.00
Faith
Marital Status
In Relationship
And where is this going? A separate religion since there's no chance of building any kind of connection with Judaism?

I don't know if you're one of the many ex-christians who have converted to Judaism or not, but in the beginning, christianity was nothing more than another sect of Judaism.
 
Upvote 0

yedida

Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Oct 6, 2010
9,779
1,461
Elyria, OH
✟40,205.00
Faith
Marital Status
In Relationship
Born Jewish.

I kinda got that impression but wasn't sure. I don't think it should matter how long ago it was that it was a Judaism, it was gentiles that took it astray and made it something foreign (and disastrous) to Jews. That just wasn't right. It should have remained what it was.
 
Upvote 0

Yahudim

Y'shua HaMoshiach Messianic
Site Supporter
Sep 30, 2004
3,993
622
Deep in the Heart of Texas
✟182,948.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I don't think the issue is whether Gentiles should be following the Torah,
the issue is Gentiles attempting to live as Jews and copying Jewish
culture, etc, that did not exist at the time of Jesus.

This is true.
Chava, I don't understand. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Besides, we look to our Jewish brethren for many things. In most cases from the Messianic camp, it is not malevolent.

Considering how the Jewish people have been persecuted by Christianity over the centuries, I would think that you might be pleased that some of us look to you as examples. Just showing a little love, even if some of it is rather childish.

We do love you.
 
Upvote 0

Yahudim

Y'shua HaMoshiach Messianic
Site Supporter
Sep 30, 2004
3,993
622
Deep in the Heart of Texas
✟182,948.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

Chaplain David

CF Chaplain
Nov 26, 2007
15,989
2,353
USA
✟291,662.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Hello everyone, thank you for posting in this thread. I am sure I will learn a lot and have questions. I have been having some problems lately with migraines and today was a bad day. But I will be back as soon as I have the concentration and lucidity to really take in what you've written. God bless you all.

Faithfully,
 
Upvote 0