Why is everybody so afraid of Islam/Muslims?

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conamer

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So is Christianity's history, so what's your point?

In fact, Martin Luther, your ol' Reformation buddy? He was a rabid anti-semite whose works were widely publicized throughout Hitler's Nazi Germany.
Yes he was anti-semetic in his laters years, how bout you? Still he risked his life to challenge the church. Your bias is breath taking. You claim Martin Luther was my "buddy"? I never mentioned him before you made that claim. Out of thin air....
 
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Prayer Circle

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Oh ya, I remember seeing that. I also remember it being an outright ban on Sharia Law, with no provocation and no proposed Sharia to block. It wasn't shot down because people are "trying to implant Sharia." It was shot down because it was an obvious waste of everybody's time. You don't need a law banning Sharia from courts when the 1st Amendment already does that.
:doh: Wow, way not to read the article.
What was shot down was the attempt to block a law that passed giving permission/right for Sharia court to convene in Oklahoma!

And I"m not going to take your word for another culture's laws when you don't even seem to understand your own. The only ones claiming there's no difference between moderates and extremists are, ironically, the fundamentalists who have a very similar worldview from a different perspective.
(*See above reply to your comprehension of the Oklahoma article*)
 
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TScott

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People should fear anyone who is totally fundamentally inured to their religion. IMO someone who believes, who actually believes that the Earth is really 6000 years old is just as frightening and just as dangerous as someone who would fly an airplane into a building.
 
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Wayte

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:doh: Wow, way not to read the article.
What was shot down was the attempt to block a law that passed giving permission/right for Sharia court to convene in Oklahoma!


(*See above reply to your comprehension of the Oklahoma article*)

Just checked the article, and it's exactly what I was talking about. Heck, the court to shoot it down even cited the same lack of any Sharia law attempts to outlaw, and took it a step farther to call out the fear mongering that would lead to such a waste of time.

And I quote:



The appellate court opinion pointed out that proponents of the law admitted to not knowing of a single instance in which an Oklahoma court applied sharia law or the legal precepts of other countries.

"This serves as a reminder that these anti-sharia laws are unconstitutional and that if politicians use fear-mongering and bigotry, the courts won't allow it to last for long," said Muneer Awad, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Oklahoma. Awad sued to block the law, contending that it infringed on his 1st Amendment rights.
 
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Notedstrangeperson

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(I've just had a quick skim through the thread so my apologies if I've missed anything or these points have been made already)

Christianity and Islam have a long and acrimonious history. As I mentioned above, the Crusades were response to Islamic armies invading Judeo-Christian territory, and recent events such as 9/11 have made it come out into the open again.

1. Islam rose through military conquest, spreading through the land which was Holy to both Christians and Jews. By contrast, Christianity was illegal for the first 300 years and many Christians were killed for their faith.
See BBC - Religions - Islam: Early rise of Islam (632-700).

2. Muslim scholarship was at it's height during the Medieval period, and exchanged many of their ideas with European Christians. Around the 10th century however, Ash'arite philosophy began to take hold - a philosophy which claimed that "To search for ends and reasons in His laws is not only meaningless but also grave disobedience to Him." This resulted in the gradual loss of any kind of science and theology in Islam until it became the mess it is today.
See "The Closing of the Muslim Mind"

3. Slavery - The Arab slave trade took roughly the same number of black slaves as the American slave trade did (roughly 11-12 million) and a smaller number of white Christian slaves (roughly 1.25 million).
See BBC.co.uk - British slavery on the Barbary coast
By the way SmellsLikeCurlyFries, I think this is the video you're looking for:

SURPRISE! Dick Cheney Admits Osama Bin Laden Wasn't Directly Involved In 9 11 - YouTube
 
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Prayer Circle

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...and all Christian terrorists are Christian. All Jewish terrorists are Jewish. All Hindi terrorists are Hindi.

Is it obvious how silly that statement is yet?

^_^ More than you know. But you clearly missed why I said that. (To help your edification)
 
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Notedstrangeperson

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TScott said:
People should fear anyone who is totally fundamentally inured to their religion. IMO someone who believes, who actually believes that the Earth is really 6000 years old is just as frightening and just as dangerous as someone who would fly an airplane into a building.

Unlike most Christians, most muslims around the world are what we would call Young Earth Creationists - but unless I'm very much mistaken, I have yet to hear of Ken Ham encouraging his followers to bomb a natural history museum. American creationists may be full of hot air but they aren't dangerous.
 
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C

conamer

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(I've just had a quick skim through the thread so my apologies if I've missed anything or these points have been made already)

Christianity and Islam have a long and acrimonious history. As I mentioned above, the Crusades were response to Islamic armies invading Judeo-Christian territory, and recent events such as 9/11 have made it come out into the open again.

1. Islam rose through military conquest, spreading through the land which was Holy to both Christians and Jews. By contrast, Christianity was illegal for the first 300 years and many Christians were killed for their faith.
See BBC - Religions - Islam: Early rise of Islam (632-700).

2. Muslim scholarship was at it's height during the Medieval period, and exchanged many of their ideas with European Christians. Around the 10th century however, Ash'arite philosophy began to take hold - a philosophy which claimed that "To search for ends and reasons in His laws is not only meaningless but also grave disobedience to Him." This resulted in the gradual loss of any kind of science and theology in Islam until it became the mess it is today.
See "The Closing of the Muslim Mind"

3. Slavery - The Arab slave trade took roughly the same number of black slaves as the American slave trade did (roughly 11-12 million) and a smaller number of white Christian slaves (roughly 1.25 million).
See BBC.co.uk - British slavery on the Barbary coast
By the way SmellsLikeCurlyFries, I think this is the video you're looking for:

SURPRISE! Dick Cheney Admits Osama Bin Laden Wasn't Directly Involved In 9 11 - YouTube

Right, in other words if it isn't in the Qur'an and Hadith it isn't worth looking at.
 
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TScott

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(I've just had a quick skim through the thread so my apologies if I've missed anything or these points have been made already)

Christianity and Islam have a long and acrimonious history. As I mentioned above, the Crusades were response to Islamic armies invading Judeo-Christian territory, and recent events such as 9/11 have made it come out into the open again.

1. Islam rose through military conquest, spreading through the land which was Holy to both Christians and Jews. By contrast, Christianity was illegal for the first 300 years and many Christians were killed for their faith.
9snip)

2. Muslim scholarship was at it's height during the Medieval period, and exchanged many of their ideas with European Christians. Around the 10th century however, Ash'arite philosophy began to take hold - a philosophy which claimed that "To search for ends and reasons in His laws is not only meaningless but also grave disobedience to Him." This resulted in the gradual loss of any kind of science and theology in Islam until it became the mess it is today.
See "The Closing of the Muslim Mind"

3. Slavery - The Arab slave trade took roughly the same number of black slaves as the American slave trade did (roughly 11-12 million) and a smaller number of white Christian slaves (roughly 1.25 million).
See BBC.co.uk - British slavery on the Barbary coast
By the way SmellsLikeCurlyFries, I think this is the video you're looking for:

SURPRISE! Dick Cheney Admits Osama Bin Laden Wasn't Directly Involved In 9 11 - YouTube

Sure. The Bush administration was going to go to their grave minimizing Bin Laden's involvement because they were warned of his involvement in the Cole and the earlier embassy bombings before 911 and ignored the warnings, instead going along with the idea that Saddam was behind the terrorists. This was an essential ingredient of the Bush intelligence people when they first came to the WH. When they were briefed by the outgoing NSA chief on terrorism, Bush's people, notably Wolfowitz, downplayed the idea that Al Qaeda was behind terror attacks and instead promoted the theory of Saddams being behind them. In this video Cheney is just parsing words talking of Bin Laden's "direct" involvement. We all know that the Mastermind behind the attacks was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. We also know that he was the second most important member of Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda folks! Geeze what is with you guys! I mean this is like saying Hitler wasn't responsible for the death camps, it was all Eichman!
 
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Prayer Circle

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Just checked the article, and it's exactly what I was talking about. Heck, the court to shoot it down even cited the same lack of any Sharia law attempts to outlaw, and took it a step farther to call out the fear mongering that would lead to such a waste of time.

And I quote:

:eek: Ohhhhkay.
You said...
...I also remember it being an outright ban on Sharia Law, with no provocation and no proposed Sharia to block. It wasn't shot down because people are "trying to implant Sharia." It was shot down because it was an obvious waste of everybody's time. You don't need a law banning Sharia from courts when the 1st Amendment already does that...

Wow! I mean really. The spin you tried to put on your own words written moments between each other, failed.

Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma(i.e. the "Save our State" amendment)

Oklahoma is poised to become the first state in the nation to ban state judges from relying on Islamic law known as Sharia when deciding cases.

The ban is a cornerstone of a "Save our State" amendment to the Oklahoma constitution that was recently approved by the Legislature.

The amendment -- which also would forbid judges from using international laws as a basis for decisions -- will now be put before Oklahoma's voters in November. Approval is expected.


Court: Oklahoma Ban On Islamic Law Unconstitutional
OKLAHOMA CITY — A proposed constitutional amendment that would ban Oklahoma courts from considering international or Islamic law discriminates against religions, and a Muslim community leader has the right to challenge its constitutionality, a federal appeals court said Tuesday.

The court in Denver upheld U.S. District Judge Vicki Miles-LaGrange's order blocking implementation of the amendment shortly after it was approved by 70 percent of Oklahoma voters in November 2010.
 
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Notedstrangeperson

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TScott said:
We all know that the Mastermind behind the attacks was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. We also know that he was the second most important member of Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda folks! Geeze what is with you guys! I mean this is like saying Hitler wasn't responsible for the death camps, it was all Eichman!
Yes, exactly.

[EDIT] Just to clarify, I didn't post the video to try and clear Bin Laden of any blame. I posted it because that's the video SmellsLikeCurlyFries was looking for.
 
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Wayte

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:eek: Ohhhhkay.


Wow! I mean really. The spin you tried to put on your own words written moments between each other, failed.

Islamic Sharia Law to Be Banned in, ah, Oklahoma(i.e. the "Save our State" amendment)

Oklahoma is poised to become the first state in the nation to ban state judges from relying on Islamic law known as Sharia when deciding cases.

The ban is a cornerstone of a "Save our State" amendment to the Oklahoma constitution that was recently approved by the Legislature.

The amendment -- which also would forbid judges from using international laws as a basis for decisions -- will now be put before Oklahoma's voters in November. Approval is expected.


Court: Oklahoma Ban On Islamic Law Unconstitutional
OKLAHOMA CITY — A proposed constitutional amendment that would ban Oklahoma courts from considering international or Islamic law discriminates against religions, and a Muslim community leader has the right to challenge its constitutionality, a federal appeals court said Tuesday.

The court in Denver upheld U.S. District Judge Vicki Miles-LaGrange's order blocking implementation of the amendment shortly after it was approved by 70 percent of Oklahoma voters in November 2010.

I"m really confused about the disconnect here. Oklahoma tried to pass a law preventing courts from considering international or Sharia law. But at no point was anybody in any public court attempting to consider Sharia law. The reason the law to prevent considering Sharia law was shot down was for that very reason; they were outlawing something that was never happening, and that was already illegal under the 1st amendment. It was a blatantly paranoid law, born more of fear mongering than any real threat or attempt to consider Sharia law in court. There is no spin on my part. Hell, the judges who shot it down are saying exactly what I've been saying.
 
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SmellsLikeCurlyFries

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Yes he was anti-semetic in his laters years, how bout you? Still he risked his life to challenge the church. Your bias is breath taking. You claim Martin Luther was my "buddy"? I never mentioned him before you made that claim. Out of thin air....

I'm not anti-semitic in the least. Kinda hard to be anti-semitic when you are actively trying to convert to Judaism.

However, you did mention the Reformation before, and if it wasn't for Luther the Reformation wouldn't have happened (when it did, anyway).

But anyway. So what if he risked his life to challenge the Catholic Church? He was still a raving lunatic anti-semite that promoted burning down synagogues and other homes of Jews.
 
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SmellsLikeCurlyFries

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The Bush administration was going to go to their grave minimizing Bin Laden's involvement...We all know that the Mastermind behind the attacks was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

You know what, that's probably all I was reading, was the stuff you mentioned.

Now I feel stupid XD
 
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sdmsanjose

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Why is everybody so afraid of Islam/Muslims?
Seriously. I never understood it myself.

Some are afraid, some are concerned, and some want to use religious bigotry or ethnic prejudices to make light of real danger, and some like the U.S. State Department make a list.

I think the State Department made a list because it is their job to keep us as safe as possible. If they fail to protect us then you will hear some of those people that yell religious bigotry and ethnic prejudiced screaming at the government for not doing their job.

I think that we should pay particular attention to Muslims and the other groups that are in the Terrorists list without any apologies. If you are a Muslim you should expect to be watched closely by the proper authorities. If you are an innocent Muslim then we mean you no harm but if you do not realize that a 9-11 is more important than you being offended then you are going to be offended a lot.


Rather than depend on someone’s political or religious theory how about we look at the U.S. State department facts on the most terrorist organizations being Islamic extremist groups?



U.S. State Department list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Foreign Terrorist Organization" is a designation of non-United States-based organizations declared terrorist by the United States Secretary of State in accordance with section 219 of the U.S. Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). Most of the organizations as of 2007 on the list are Islamist extremist groups, with the remainder being mainly communist groups, followed by nationalist/separatist groups.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._State_Department_list_of_Foreign_Terrorist_Organizations
 
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Archaeopteryx

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You're proof of how there is no rational reason to fear Islam is to point the finger at Christians, while ignoring the proof of why Islam is something to fear. I cannot take you seriously if you don't address the scripture that promotes, and lines up with the actions of Islam all around the world.

Sounds like we should fear religion in general, and not any religion in particular... No one is portraying any religion in a particularly good light...
 
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SmellsLikeCurlyFries

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Sounds like we should fear religion in general, and not any religion in particular... No one is portraying any religion in a particularly good light...

I wouldn't say that. I don't think we should "fear" anything.

Be concerned, sure. But it's not really religion's fault. Religion, like any belief/philosophy/value, is just a vehicle. It all depends on who is driving.

That's the point I keep trying to make by bringing up Christianity's almost identical history and current actions to Islam's. I'm not trying to defend vile, savage Muslims any more than I am trying to defend vile, savage Christians. Nor am I trying to demonize good Muslims or good Christians.

I'm just trying to make the point that Islam is not any more inherently violent than Christianity. It all depends on who is behind the wheel.

But mankind will use any excuse it can to be vile savages. You'll find at least one in every single ideology known to man, I guarantee you. That's why people need to judge their fellow humans on a case-by-case basis as HUMANS, instead of as these massive dehumanized labels.
 
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