Why is everybody so afraid of Islam/Muslims?

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Evidence is lacking...?

Yes. The only people (for the most part - you can't 100% avoid killing innocents in war, unfortunately) that were put to the sword during Muslim conquests were combatants.

But really, the Muslim conquests during the Medieval days are incredibly disingenuous arguments in favor of Islam being violent, because Christianity was out conquering before Islam even existed, because guess what? Conquest was popular in the Medieval days and EVERYBODY that had a sovereign country was doing it.

I've made two whole posts about you, one was asking how you could justify supporting obamacare and this last one, pointing out the hypocrisy of calling oneself a libertarian while claiming that mass murder and subjugation is fine if the ends justify it.

I'm just curious where you got that I supported Obamacare. I support Romneycare, sure, but only because it actually works pretty well in Massachusetts (note: I said "pretty well", not "perfect").

As for the last bit, you have to take GREAT leaps to get that I support mass murder and subjugation for ANY reason.

 

[Prayer Circle]

First of all, never compare me to Falwell and Robertson. That's just needless insult.

Second, no. You've clearly taken lessons in how to blow things WAY out of proportion. I never said those thousands of innocent civilians deserved to die, nor would I EVER say such a thing. I don't believe any person, regardless of their crime or lack of crime, deserves to be killed by any human being. That is a judgment and sentence for G-d alone to carry out.

What I said was that you reap what you sow, a message found even in the Bible. Nobody should have been surprised by 9/11 because our government has done so much dad-blamed meddling in that region and has screwed up the lives of so many innocent people, that of COURSE people hate this country and would want just a little bit of revenge.

Does that make the revenge right? No. But those that live by the sword die by it. I just wish it was the government those terrorists decided to go after, instead of innocent civilians.

Then, at least, it would have been more just.



First of all, bite your tongue. Or at the very least stop running around here "praying" for people and calling for respect and love, because at this point you're just a hypocrite.

Second, don't you DARE accuse me of hating this country! I've devoted most of my life to studying ways to HELP this country out of the freaking pit it's stumbled into. When my friends played and enjoyed their childhood I did everything I could to learn how to help and serve my country.

The despicable one is not ME, who is trying to address and solve the problem. The despicable ones are those that to this day advocate fear-mongering and WAR on those who don't agree with the American way of life. THOSE are the people that are despicable, NOT ME.

No, I'm no hypocrite. Someone who in a round about way and now repeats, that the U.S. reaps what it sowed and shouldn't have been surprised by 9-11, is despicable!
And that is exactly what Falwell and Robertson said of the events on September 11th, in claiming their observation of Americas behavior calling that horror unto them as a sign or punishment from God. Which those who hijacked those planes heard calling them to act, in their own way by the name of their own Deity Allah!

Needless insult is what you profess about America, in any circular logic excuse you wish to afford, in what happened to us, not because of us, on September 11th, 2001.

So judge my offering prayers to people in sincere spirit and from the heart all you like. If you imagine that precludes me from having an opinion of your hate, you are sadly mistaken. And "hypocrite" coming from you, isn't an insult to me. It's simply your next excuse for hate and perverse circular logic that attempts to make credible the affirmation any terrorism that finds us/U.S. is due to what we sowed.

Well, if that is how you see it let's see if you can accept that all that horror that happens in the middle east, and has for long centuries when the U.S. had nothing to do with any thing about it, nor did Christianity, as a matter of the reap and sow analogy.

Somehow, I doubt it.

Goodness me, it is amazing how hate can be a tenet of the doctrine of a Prince of peace. And how that can be excused as someone adopting a hate filled personality, thinking they're comporting with what is Christ like.

My deepest sympathies unto you. And thank God I don't see things your way.

 

[Wayte]

Very obviously?




Appeals court affirms order blocking Oklahoma sharia law ban


To the contrary. The 1st amendment was argued to permit Sharia Law & courts, to convene within the borders of Oklahoma. A precedent is now set, so that other State's can be forced to do the same thing.

This is the 2004 story of Atefah Sahaaleh . Hanged from a crane, for the crime of "acts incompatible with chastity".
And so too is this, Atefah Sahalleh. (video)

Not all Muslims are Islamic Terrorists. However, all Islamic Terrorists are Muslim.

And denying that their faith compels that action, even against their own, as Sharia Law applies to Muslims only, unless we're talking about Sharia banking, is dangerous for everyone. Because Sharia compels the Muslim to see the world of the non-Muslim it's way. So for those who are what the west has labeled, "extremists", when Muslims themselves will tell you there is no such thing as a difference denoted by such terms as "moderate" or "extremist" Islam. Islam is Islam!

Sharia Law Controlled Zones in the UK

Oh ya, I remember seeing that. I also remember it being an outright ban on Sharia Law, with no provocation and no proposed Sharia to block. It wasn't shot down because people are "trying to implant Sharia." It was shot down because it was an obvious waste of everybody's time. You don't need a law banning Sharia from courts when the 1st Amendment already does that.

And I"m not going to take your word for another culture's laws when you don't even seem to understand your own. The only ones claiming there's no difference between moderates and extremists are, ironically, the fundamentalists who have a very similar worldview from a different perspective.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I'm not talking about their freedom to choose their system of government.

Neither am I.

Believe it or not, plenty Muslims (the good, peaceful ones) choose Sharia Law just like Christians chose the Constitution (the difference being that Muslims follow Sharia Law better than Christians follow the Constitution).

Which is better law, Sharia or the Constitution?

The same could be said of any group. The only real difference is what breed of militant we're looking at. Over there the militant fundamentalists invoke fear through violence. Over here they do it through media and politics. The only difference is the medium.

You didn't answer my question, though. What is this sharp line of distinction you want to draw between, to use your words, "radicals" and "sane members of the Muslim community". (I would never be so patronizing to Muslims as to call them insane. I grant them the respect due to a formidable enemy.)

Why is everybody so afraid of Islam/Muslims?

Based on past experience, Islam/Muslims have far more reason to be afraid of the West.

9/11 is just a "drop in the bucket" compared to the degree of US/British/French military, economic and cultural intervention into their lives over the last 3 centuries.

The best three centuries in the history of the Islamic world. Was it a coincidence that bloodshed between the West and the Islamic world hit a low point under Western domination?

 

[Theofane]

Tennessee. I remember 9/11. I also remember that it was proven that bin Laden had nothing to do with it and it was the Saudis and Pakistanis that were responsible for it.

Of course, one act doesn't justify fearing nearly two billion people. If that were the case, people in America should be terrified of Christians, because there have been far more acts of Christian terrorism in America than Muslim terrorism since 9/11.

Why do you protect Islamic terrorists the way you do?

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Which is better law, Sharia or the Constitution?

Well, my personal belief is that it it is the Constitution. But my personal beliefs don't trump theirs. If they want Sharia Law in their own, sovereign countries, let them have it.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Why do you protect Islamic terrorists the way you do?

I don't protect terrorists of any kind. What you are confusing as "protection" of terrorists is fighting ignorance with facts.

 

[conamer]

I know the word Jihad.

It means struggle. And can take the form of anything from violence towards others to internal wrestling of the mind or soul.

I am sure you too have jihad on issues of worldly things that test your Christian faith.

Then why did Muhammad call for able bodied Muslims to Jihad if it men some "internal wrestling" as you say.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

No, I'm no hypocrite. Someone who in a round about way and now repeats, that the U.S. reaps what it sowed and shouldn't have been surprised by 9-11, is despicable!
And that is exactly what Falwell and Robertson said of the events on September 11th, in claiming their observation of Americas behavior calling that horror unto them as a sign or punishment from God. Which those who hijacked those planes heard calling them to act, in their own way by the name of their own Deity Allah!

The difference is that Falwell and Robertson were kooks who think every little bad thing in the world is G-d's judgment. I am merely quoting the EXPERTS that studied the whole thing.

Remember the 9/11 Commission Report? The thing that is considered Gospel Truth on how 9/11 happened?

It says 9/11 was a direct result of the U.S. foreign interventions in the Middle East, which is the exact same thing I said.

So you're going to have to call the entire CIA and U.S. government despicable and America-hating, because they agreed with my statement.

Needless insult is what you profess about America, in any circular logic excuse you wish to afford, in what happened to us, not because of us, on September 11th, 2001.

It's reporting the facts. Unlike you, I don't have this misguided notion that America and its government is perfect and has never done a single bad thing in history. I study and pay attention to the words of our own government and intelligence agencies and then use that information to develop a solution.

It's simply your next excuse for hate and perverse circular logic that attempts to make credible the affirmation any terrorism that finds us/U.S. is due to what we sowed.

I don't hate this country. I love this country more than you could possibly comprehend, and it drives me to tears to see her reputation run through the mud by a government and people that are no better than common savages.

Am I a rabid nationalist that believes America can do no wrong? No, sorry, I'm not like you, nor will I ever be. Do I blame a bunch of poor brown people in sand castles for one of the biggest and most well-planned attacks on American soil in our history? No, I don't. Do I want to make war on the entire bloody Middle East (except Saudi Arabia and Pakistan) just because they aren't big fans of America and Christianity? No.

But that doesn't mean I hate this country.

Well, if that is how you see it let's see if you can accept that all that horror that happens in the middle east, and has for long centuries when the U.S. had nothing to do with any thing about it, nor did Christianity, as a matter of the reap and sow analogy.

Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollah are in charge of Iran because of us.

Iran has the capability to build nuclear weapons because of us.

Osama bin Laden fought the Soviets out of Afghanistan and then took OVER Afghanistan and (to almost all of America) committed 9/11 because we ARMED and FUNDED him and then turned a blind eye to him because he helped us "defeat" communism in the region.

We put Saddam Hussein in power, funded him, armed him, helped him in the Iran-Iraq War, and then when he attacked the oil-rich Kurds, we fought him and later deposed him under George W. Bush.

All of this and more is irrefutable historical FACT if you'd just get your head out of the government's butt and try researching for yourself for a change.

 

[Wayte]

\



You didn't answer my question, though. What is this sharp line of distinction you want to draw between, to use your words, "radicals" and "sane members of the Muslim community". (I would never be so patronizing to Muslims as to call them insane. I grant them the respect due to a formidable enemy.)

Answers like that are hard to explain. It's a common sense thing, judging each person or group as their own.

I suppose if you're hell bent on getting a definite answer though, I suppose you could look at it the same way we do here. The ones trying to force their views into law, or on to those around them are the extremists. Whereas the ones who treat their personal belief like exactly that, a personal belief, would be the moderates. Obviously there's plenty of gray area to play with in there, and I'm sure somebody will in some attempt to discredit my opinion. But like I said, it's kinda hard to give a definite answer to.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Then why did Muhammad call for able bodied Muslims to Jihad if it men some "internal wrestling" as you say.

Partially because Christian nations were threatening to conquer their countries.

 

[conamer]

I don't see why Christians fear them.

What is the worst they can do. Kill you?

Does that not mean you get to go to heaven then?

I mean you already wish it so badly with sayings like Lord come quickly and all this talk about the end days.

Seems like all you want is death. So why fear it?

Unless you are still not so sure.

Nah they don't want to kill everyone, that would eliminate their jizya tax base.

 

[conamer]

Hitler was able to get so many good Germans on his side for the Holocaust by precisely that method.
And three divisions of Muslims who helped in the holocaust. To be fair Chatholics also took part.
Take away their humanity and you can do anything to them.

The Islamic trilogy is full of taking away the humanity if the unbeliever.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

The Islamic trilogy is full of taking away the humanity if the unbeliever.

So is Christianity's history, so what's your point?

In fact, Martin Luther, your ol' Reformation buddy? He was a rabid anti-semite whose works were widely publicized throughout Hitler's Nazi Germany.

 

[conamer]

...and all Christian terrorists are Christian. All Jewish terrorists are Jewish. All Hindi terrorists are Hindi.

Is it obvious how silly that statement is yet?

No, because it's clear you don't know what a terrorist is.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Then why did Muhammad call for able bodied Muslims to Jihad if it men some "internal wrestling" as you say.

Partially because Christian nations were threatening to conquer their countries.

The countries of the Middle-East were never theirs. Before the rise of Islam most people in those countries were Christians, Jews and pagans. Places such as Israel and Iraq were especially important to Christians and Jews because they were the birthplaces of many of Biblical figures, including Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Jesus Christ. Then Mohammed came along and decided to 'covert' the people living there.

(Don't mind me butting in )

 

[TScott]

Tennessee. I remember 9/11. I also remember that it was proven that bin Laden had nothing to do with it and it was the Saudis and Pakistanis that were responsible for it.

I'm with you on a lot of what you've said here Curly, but this is not factual. Bin Laden himself boasted on several occasions that he was responsible for 911. This is not even in dispute by any reasonable person. 911 was an Al Qaeda operation, the evidence is overwhelming.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

No, because it's clear you don't know what a terrorist is.

lol. Right.

Why don't you tell me, then?

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

I'm with you on a lot of what you've said here Curly, but this is not factual. Bin Laden himself boasted on several occasions that he was responsible for 911. This is not even in dispute by any reasonable person. 911 was an Al Qaeda operation, the evidence is overwhelming.

I'll see if I can re-find (computer crashed >_>) my sources on the subject, but it's a rather recent development from actual intelligence sources. This isn't Alex Jones crap

 

[conamer]

I've done both, actually. I lived in Israel for a year with an elderly Messianic couple from my parents' church. Additionally, several of my family members and most of my friends have joined and served in the military.

Their stories are all the same. The most hostility our men and women get in other countries is because of what our country has done to them.

Lest we ignore history, we've been a major reason the Middle East has been so unstable. Christianity itself is largely responsible thanks to the Crusades and centuries of persecution.

Dude the first "crusades were conducted by muslims 400 years before the first call to defend Chistian lands in 1095 by Pope Urban. The beginning of Muslim agression started in 632 in Arabia and 635 by the conquering of Damascus (that you think is a favor because they alegedly built schools and such). If it wasn't for Charles Martel, and the greed of Muslim invaders who left the battle field to secure their booty, the Muslims may have succeeded in taking all of the known world.