Depart from Me, I never knew you (says Jesus...)

[george baily]

I find it interesting that many people speak of having a personal relationship w/ Jesus (those words aren't in the Bible) and yet it seems what they mean is the relationship of them knowing Him

yet Jesus even rejects those who do "mighty deeds in" His name (St Mt 7)

scary

and in at least 2 places in the NT He says "Depart from Me, i never knew you"

He doesn't say Depart from Me, you never knew ME

i think a lot of people know Jesus... They know who He is... they know he's the truth. They know what He requires of them

but if they are known BY Him... well, that's a little different thing

a person who goes to work every day as an abortionist can say he knows Jesus... I am thinking George Tiller... He wnt to church (Lutheran). But day after day he continued to violate one of God's most fundamental laws...

so Tiller "knew" Jesus

but Jesus apparently didn't know him... because God will not dwell with those who commit mortal sin

anyway, i am NOT judging anyone... (although we ARE called to judge actions... "You will know them by their fruits")

I just think this is all kinda interesting...

The only true rendering of the statement Jesus makes "I never knew you" can only be simply a figure of speech, because of the timing when He makes these statements, they are on the day of judgement, and Jesus who is God in the flesh, knows everyone, and everything, in fact in the book of Luke He makes this same statement and follows it with "you workers of iniquity" while He says He doesn't know them, He appears to know what they have been doing, can't have it both ways, He obviously knew exactly who they are and what they have done

 

[muzza21]

Jesus said that no one had ascended BEFORE (meaning He said this b4) he was taken into Heaven

now that he is ascended, & has sent the Advocate (the Holy Spirit... His Church that contains the HS)people do get itno Heaven... Of cours most have to go through Purgatory first because Heaven is aboslutely PURE and most of us humans... uh... far from it...

I didn't know that. Please, if you would be so kind, show the verse or verses which the place of Purgatory are mentioned in God's word, the bible?

 

[george baily]

I didn't know that. Please, if you would be so kind, show the verse or verses which the place of Purgatory are mentioned in God's word, the bible?

you must pay a priest to pray your loved ones out of purgatory......its really worth it, I mean you wouldn't want your loved ones to never ascend into heaven would you?........I know! I know! you thought salvation was a free gift.......there is no free lunch! now depending on how sinful your loved one was, will determine the amount of prayer ($) it will take, also your tax bracket will determine just how much Prayer ($) Is needed.....but don't you worry none! they will guarantee your loved one will get through, no matter what the cost ($)

 

[muzza21]

No George, you can't tell me something like that. That's not biblical, that's human speculation, opinion, stinks of doctrine of man. Give me verse or verses between Genesis and revelation. Back it up with the word of God.

 

[george baily]

No George, you can't tell me something like that. That's not biblical, that's human speculation, opinion, stinks of doctrine of man. Give me verse or verses between Genesis and revelation. Back it up with the word of God.

I wish I could but I can't!

 

[muzza21]

At least you're honest, George. I'll tell you something real. Birds have been dropping from the sky, dead. Hundreds of dolphins washed up dead in California, hundreds of pilot whales also, same thing off the coast of new zealand. Scientists confirm unusual sounds heard in the sky above our planet. They know exactly what it is, it's resonating from the earths core. This year and next year will be unprecidented for earthquakes across the planet. We have to wake up people. This is biblical, a tribulation is coming soon like none in history and never will be again. If you look to the doctrines of men, you'll be looking in the wrong direction.

 

[george baily]

At least you're honest, George. I'll tell you something real. Birds have been dropping from the sky, dead. Hundreds of dolphins washed up dead in California, hundreds of pilot whales also, same thing off the coast of new zealand. Scientists confirm unusual sounds heard in the sky above our planet. They know exactly what it is, it's resonating from the earths core. This year and next year will be unprecidented for earthquakes across the planet. We have to wake up people. This is biblical, a tribulation is coming soon like none in history and never will be again. If you look to the doctrines of men, you'll be looking in the wrong direction.

It only gets worse as time continues, best to find a place where food is readily grown, by farmers, who are not dependant on Monsanto for seeds

 

[muzza21]

If that's your plan then I hope it works out for you.

 

[george baily]

If that's your plan then I hope it works out for you.

actually there are still places on this earth were you can barter for food for services, thus you don't need any mark to buy or sell, this mark will probably be more inforced in cities than in the country

 

[truthHurts77]

Oh dear, so sorry for mixing you up, really have to pay more attention to that. Mind if we start again? Also, don't mean to sound presumptuous, like I'm the only one with the truth. I'm not.

I have a very good friend of mine. SHE is also a Catholic and loves being a Catholic, been one for 30 years, but for sake of peace we have to literally avoid these conversations because she just believes what she believes is truth and nothing I can show her will sway her away from Catholic doctrine.

Are you the same?

Here is an example. Please point out to me in the bible where it says by attending daily mass, it happens that all heaven participates?

it doesn't say t hat in the bible.. I know - i have read the whole Bible

Catholics dont go by just the Bible... and neither should you.

All of God cannot be crammed into such a small book

Tradition came b4 the Church and produced the Christian Church

 

[truthHurts77]

truthhurts,

When people talk about having personal relationship, and knowing Jesus, in most cases, they are not talking about merely knowing of Jesus, or knowing about Jesus.. they are talking about knowing him on a "personal" level.. thus the term "personal relationship".

I can say that I know the governor of my state because I know who he is, I've read about him, watched him speak etc. But I don't know him in the same way I know my mother, or my brother.

A lot of people who call themselves Christians know Jesus like I know the governor of my state. They don't know him like I know my brother or my friend etc. For a lot of people their faith never goes beyond a vague acceptance that God exists and that Jesus is God etc.

This is what those who talk about "personal relationships" and "knowing Jesus" are trying to work against.

Now, having said that, there is a negative side to this crowd as well (having grown up in it). First, the phrase "personal relationship" has become such a clieche that it has lost the real impact it should have. Its been so vastly over used and so often used without really understanding all that it should mean.

Secondly, there is a genuine problem with many of those who focus on the personal aspect in that their faith becomes defined by their own self. It becomes personal not in the sense of intimate, but rather in the sense of defined by my own preferences and tastes.

So, I fully agree that every Christian should have a personal relationship with Jesus. In fact, if you don't, I would have to say you probably are in need of having a real heart conversion.
However, at the same time, personal can not mean selfish, and it can not mean defined by me, or my tastes etc.

The whole point of Christianity, indeed of existence is for us to know God on an intimate level in relationship.

i totally agree

now i know (better) why it is i never liked that phrase Personal relationship w/ Jesus... For one thing, it can mean just about anything, as your post says

I began to have a personal "thing" (dont like Relationship... long story why...) with Jesus when i got serious about the Chruch he founded on EArth, the Roman Catholic Church. It was there that i began to hear the Word of God (yes, the Bible, in a CATHOLIC Church... go figure ) at daily Mass... If you go to daily Mass for 3 yrs you will hear most of the Bible... Old and New T

anyhow... It was when i began to spend time in His Real Presence, found only in HIs Church that i began to understand who he really is. If you dont spend time in that Real Presence of His you will not know certain things about Him. If all you have is the Bible, you will be very limited on what you know about Jesus... and this brings us back to that "Depart from me, i never knew you" thing...

the thing is... i really can't discuss this further with people who have not spent time There

and you can't just go there 4 a few minutes either..

i notice that the longer i stay... hmmm... How to say this??

it is very mysterious what happens there, espeicaly wehn He is not "exposed" - when the consecrated Hosts are still in the tabernacle. I personally belive the souls in Purg are there in the unexposed, but maybe not in the Exposed... although i have yet to get word on what the Church officially teaches on this particular thing... But i belive they are there, working out their salvation with fear & trembling (Phil 2:12) since they didn't do so sufficiently on Earth.

Anyway... i think i will post this much and... get back to all the other thoughts flying through my head later...

i came back after getting my main point back, although it is all important..

I used to believe thigns about God and His son that are not true.

the primary example is that i thought God didn't care about me anymore... that i had "gone 2 far" in my sinfulness.. God in heaven knows why i thought such a thing (felt it) becaus i have never commited what you would call BIG sins, although all mortal sin is big to God...

I was half right that i w asn't good enough 4 God.. meaning not holy enough. In fact, that is not a half truth but absolute truth. The thing that was off in my thinking was that God would never take me back

the rosary disabused me of that notion. It was this distinctly Catholic weapon against the devil that disabused me... imagine that... a w eapon of the Catholic Church helped ME, someone who 100% belived God did NOT want me back... I think ppl who bash the Catholic Church should keep this in mind..

in any case, i almost gave up on the rosary as well, when i 1st started praying it many yrs ago because this feeling of not being good enough.. this feeling that i couldn't return to God was SOO strong!!! But some small, quiet "voice" told me to keep praying and i listend to that voice, evne though much louder voices (thoughts) were telling me "you might as well 4get it... God doesn't want you, you are not good enough..." and etc, etc..

again... i probably should leave things at that 4 now... getting kind of emotional remembering all this.. I know it was God who got me to pray the rosary. i know because i did not - NOT - want to pray it... didn't belive it could do ONE thing 4 me.. Instead, it changed my whole life... a total 180

 

[truthHurts77]

I was half right (yrs ago) when i thought i w asn't good enough 4 God.. meaning not holy enough. In fact, that is not a half truth but absolute truth. The thing that was off in my thinking was that God would never take me back

the rosary disabused me of that notion. It was this distinctly Catholic weapon against the devil that disabused me... imagine that... a w eapon of the Catholic Church helped ME, someone who 100% belived God did NOT want me back... I think ppl who bash the Catholic Church should keep this in mind..

 

[truthHurts77]

Anyway, i always wondered why Jesus said Depart from me, i never knew you - meaning Who exactly fits into that category (him not knowing him/her)

I have, however, answered my own Q this way

when i am in His Presence, i feel that i know Him and He knows me

when i am not in HIs Presence (outside the Church)... it's somewhat different

IT seems that when i am with Him in the Real Presence i know my UNCONSCIOUS self...

and outside of there... i ignore that self... because i hardly know it exists unless i consciously try to get in touch w/ it.

 

[muzza21]

the rosary disabused me of that notion. It was this distinctly Catholic weapon against the devil that disabused me... imagine that... a w eapon of the Catholic Church helped ME, someone who 100% belived God did NOT want me back... I think ppl who bash the Catholic Church should keep this in mind..

Please find scripture from Genesis to Revelation to back up your suggestion some beads on a string could protect you from Satan?

I know what my bible says, read if you will Ephesians 6:11-18

Doesn't say anything about rosary beads that I saw. But, please enlighten me, but only with the word of God please,

 

[truthHurts77]

Please find scripture from Genesis to Revelation to back up your suggestion some beads on a string could protect you from Satan?

I know what my bible says, read if you will Ephesians 6:11-18

Doesn't say anything about rosary beads that I saw. But, please enlighten me, but only with the word of God please,

oh please... that If its not found in the Bible i can't belive it nonsense

your name isn't in the Bible either

JEsus' birth date is not in the Bible... I could go on and on

you see beads when you look @ a rosary

I see meditation on the life of Christ

I see By His Stripes I am Healed (so i meditate on his stripes via the rosarythe Holy Mass)

 

[truthHurts77]

no rsponse

totally figures...

becaus there is no argument for truth

 

[Simon_Templar]

Please find scripture from Genesis to Revelation to back up your suggestion some beads on a string could protect you from Satan?

I know what my bible says, read if you will Ephesians 6:11-18

Doesn't say anything about rosary beads that I saw. But, please enlighten me, but only with the word of God please,

First of all, if I may ask you to prove your position as you ask others to prove theirs..

Show me, in the word of God, where it says only the word of God may be used to teach, or as the only standard of doctrine?


If you can't live up to your own standard, I suggest your view point may have issues.

Now secondly, as truthhurst pointed out, the "rosary" is not just the beads. The beads are just an aid to organizing the prayers and meditations. The prayers and meditations are "the rosary". More specifically the rosary is a set of specific meditations on the mysteries of Jesus' life. The key events of Jesus life (and some after his resurrection) are organized into 3 groups of 5 and the person meditates on them while praying.

While the use of prayer beads may not be in the bible... everything in the rosary is taken directly from scripture because it all revolves around the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.


I should add a note, one of the truths that I have learned over the last few years is that Catholicism and its teachings are actually very biblical. I once had the perception, as most protestants, that Catholicism was unbiblical on numerous issues etc, but this really isn't true. In fact, the irony is that Catholicism does not rely solely on the bible because the bible itself teaches that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, yet Catholicism is profoundly biblical. Protestantism, on the other hand, which claims to rely solely on the bible has numerous doctrines which are either not biblical, or are based on misrepresentations and misinterpetations of the bible.

 

[Chaim11]

First of all, if I may ask you to prove your position as you ask others to prove theirs..

Im joining this comment....

 

[truthHurts77]

Please find scripture from Genesis to Revelation ,

all truth is not contained in the Bible

nowhere in the Bible does it say you have to go to an altar call either... but people do it... not catholics but others..

in any case

the rosary made me a Christian (practicing)

isn't that good enough???

it has done other things 4 me as well... so

my testimony...

it means a lot to me even if it doesn't mean much to you or anyone else...

 

[truthHurts77]

First of all, if I may ask you to prove your position as you ask others to prove theirs..

Show me, in the word of God, where it says only the word of God may be used to teach, or as the only standard of doctrine?


e.

wow, this is really shocking coming from a noncatholic

thanks... encouraging...

If it was true that the Bible was all we need for salvation

then it would SAY that in the Bible somewhere.. but it does't... In fact it says that the Word is not up for personal interpretation... 1 or 2 Peter... and this is one interpretation... (sola scriptura)... and there are many tradtions spoken of.. that are encouraged..

the Bible does not interpret itself