Missionary Work in NY

[visionary]

We are of a different brand. Very very few of us even use the term christ!! And the same number rarely use the term jesus (only when talking to those who don't know "the" Yeshua that we have come to know). We gentile Messianics are as far removed from the christian churches as we can be and still retain Yeshua in our lives. Outside of Messianic Judaism there is no place for us. Dear one, Jews are not the only ones who are having to find a home!
But in your looking you are overlooking and pushing out a group that is to your benefit. Sure we have done some stupid things, and will continue to do so if our elder brethren prefer to push us out rather than act like the big brothers and sisters that you should be. You should be shielding your little, younger siblings and helping us to grow as Yeshua is shielding and training us up.

Makes me think of the prodigal child coming home and while the Father welcomes us home with open arms, big brother still has some issues with it.

 

[Qnts2]

No, it is not, no religion is simply about keeping Law... For Jews who want to maintain a Torah observant life style, Christianity did and does not offer that type of a community, in fact I would argue Christianity is against such, for these doctrinal reasons, there are such communities that are separated.



Take for example Jews 4 Jesus, they still claim to be a Christian organization, they do not claim Messianic Judaism... they agree with the core doctrines and teachings of Christianity and sustain that within Christianity.



Keeping Shabbat or observing the high holy days, is generally considered Torah observance, no matter how deep that observance goes... this would be a doctrinal issue, even more so for those who adhere to a more strict adherence, something which they could not get in a Christian community...

There is some confusion in my answer. Messianic Judaism is not called Jewish Christianity because of the issues connected to sensitivities and understanding in the Jewish culture.

Why something is called something is different then what something is. Is Messianic Judaism, Christianity? I would say Messianic Jews are split on this. If Christianity is defined salvation by faith in Jesus work and learning being a follower/learner/disciple of the risen Lord, Jesus, and Messianic Judaism is also about salvation by faith in Yeshuas work, and learning to be a disciple of the risen Lord, Yeshua, then both are Christian. I do believe Messianic Judaism is a form of Christianity if we look at the foundational doctrine of how one must be saved, and how one becomes a disciple of Messiah.

Worshipping on Shabbat is not the same as being shomer Shabbat.

 

[etZion]

It is much more than just culture.

Exactly, that is the point to be made, I have not and do not care to make an argument about culture... I do not care or have concern that people want to keep their culture, that is completely fine and also great, do it all your life and continue teaching it to your kids!

And I don't agree that Jewish congregations need to adjust to accommodate Gentile members. Gentiles should not handle the Torah scroll, no woman should touch a Torah scroll, Gentiles should not be counted in a minion and no Jewish congregation should have to make excuses for scrutinizing and being strict about food brought to gatherings because some Gentiles refuse to abide by even p'[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] kashrut, etc.

I am not sure what you mean by accommodate?

Do you then believe that gentile congregations do not need to adjust to accommodate Jewish members? I disagree, we are all in this together. To treat one as anything less than fellow brothers is sad and disrespectful... If I ran a congregation, and I had Jews among the congregants, I would want to make it as comfortable for them as everyone else and I would want their input, I would not ask them to sit in the back and do not touch anything, I would want them to participate and be equal members among the group, even more so, because they are Jewish and a minority, and I would also want them on the leadership team, as I think that would be very important to proper structuring of the community.

Neither should there be any conflict or resistance, rather teachability, humility and repentance, when Jewish members point out that certain Judaica are being misused or should not be used by Gentiles.

Sure agreed, this should go anywhere, humility is key to a working community, and respect for all members, not just a certain group of members.

True, we are supposed to be one community with our brother Christians. True, MJism should and does welcome those Gentiles who are humbly teachable and take on the mantle of Torah and halakah. This what R Sha'ul envisioned when he said that "they will hear Torah taught every Shabbat."

Right on.

Gentiles who feel they have a scriptural mandate to observe Torah differently than their Jewish brothers and/or reject Oral Torah should NOT do so within a Jewish congregation - they would not do that in a non-Messianic Jewish congregations, WHY is it ok to do so in Messianic ones?

Agreed, but this is another topic. The argument here is whether or not gentiles should be treated as fellow brothers in a Jewish community, in some of these organizations they do not think so.

They either need to accept the limitations in a Jewish congregation because they are Gentiles or create congregations where they can practice their convictions.

Good points!

Again... Limitations do NOT mean second class! Different roles and rules do NOT mean second class. Men and women mutually have limitations, they also have different roles and rules. That does NOT mean either one is better/lesser, superior/second class.

If I said all the whites in the congregation can have a full meal, but all the blacks in a congregation can only have a bite... am I treating blacks as a second class, do they simply just have a different role here? Being within a community the males unless in leadership should share a common role together, the same with women, etc. No one should be treated as less... The Torah teaches there is to be One Law for the native and the stranger, and that the stranger is to be regarded as a native... as if he is a native, not a secondary.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Sure, what I said above was only a scratch on the surface, it is true that not all of Christianity has or does teach replacement theology, the only reason I pointed this out was to show that this is not simply a cultural discussion as many are erroneously trying to make it..

Culture and doctrine/theological issues are interconnected. It's one of the reasons why there was discussion/focus (as Brother Henaynei brought the issue up just as other Messianics have done often over the years..in nearly all camps).

On the other hand, it is true that if a person believed that keeping Torah as the Apostles did and believe that the communities the Apostles were maintaining as it was then from their point of view, then Christianity does not offer a place for such, thus this is not simply a cultural point of view

, but a doctrinal point of view. And thus a need for separate communities, both scriptural and traditional

For those people believing such, there'd still be the bottom line issue that it was NEVER the case historically that Christianity was always against that since the early church. For were always Jewish communities who held to Torah Observance in view of the apostles example and had churches set up on that basis. For a person to believe as the person you brought up noted would be to have a previous assumption without any real verification--like one saying "All swans I've seen are white, therefore meaning there's no such thing as a Black Swan." Their vantage point makes a difference in their perception, as they could only be looking in areas where white swans are prevelant while ignoring review on where other swans of different colors have always been....or they could be willfully choosing to not even consider looking elsewhere because the very thought of a black swan is something they've already assumed to be ugly (in their view)/not worthy of being in existence.

As said before, many talking about the need for seperate communities as the basis of the Messianic Jewish movement have often left out the reality of how many Jews NEVER cared for the MJish movement in many incarnations because it seemed that the movement already had a stereotypical view of what the Jewish experience was like...just as people in Judaism have had similar battles when assuming that all Jews should naturally be about synagouge/traditional actions done in the camp


When it comes to outreach toward those who are Jewish, for some, the only way they'd be reached/feel comfortable is by having a place of fellowship that seems akin to what occurred in the OT. The people coming to mind are those known as the Ethopian Jews, who are very involved in the world of Oriental Orthodoxy. The church has been extremely beneficial to them, as many Ethopian Jews have noted, due to it truly being akin to what Temple worship was like and how many Jews in OT history would've known life.

For them, most of the worship styles in many Messianic Jewish fellowship simply reflect the desires of European Jews (Askenazi) rather than multicultural Judaism---and as many Ethopian Jews have already been considered as not being "Jewish" enough by other Jews from differing synagouges, things can be difficult for a host of reasons. More on that was discussed in a thread entitled Ethopian Orthodoxy vs Eastern Orthodoxy: Which one's closer to 1st Century Judaism?

I'm not surprised when many Ethopian Jews note that what they have in Oriential Orthodoxy is sufficient compared to many other Messianic Jewish fellowships---and Jews have worshipped in a myriad of ways and they'll always be something different that others are looking for. For some, not having a multi-cultural experience or being able to have fellowship with both JEWS AND Gentiles (which was something many Jewish synagouges were not for originally, counter to God's heart for a new man), it must be kept in mind.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Why something is called something is different then what something is. Is Messianic Judaism, Christianity? I would say Messianic Jews are split on this. If Christianity is defined salvation by faith in Jesus work and learning being a follower/learner/disciple of the risen Lord, Jesus, and Messianic Judaism is also about salvation by faith in Yeshuas work, and learning to be a disciple of the risen Lord, Yeshua, then both are Christian. I do believe Messianic Judaism is a form of Christianity if we look at the foundational doctrine of how one must be saved, and how one becomes a disciple of Messiah.

Worshipping on Shabbat is not the same as being shomer Shabbat.

So true.

 

[etZion]

Culture and doctrine/theological issues are interconnected. It's one of the reasons why there was discussion/focus (as Brother Henaynei brought the issue up just as other Messianics have done often over the years..in nearly all camps).

Well my argument is not whether or not people connect them with doctrines, I am speaking in regard towards doctrinal stances, culture aside.

For those people believing such, there'd still be the bottom line issue that it was NEVER the case historically that Christianity was always against that since the early church.

Sure, but I am talking with the big picture at hand, not exceptions.

As said before, many talking about the need for seperate communities as the basis of the Messianic Jewish movement have often left out the reality of how many Jews NEVER cared for the MJish movement in many incarnations because it seemed that the movement already had a stereotypical view of what the Jewish experience was like...just as people in Judaism have had similar battles when assuming that all Jews should naturally be about synagouge/traditional actions done in the camp

I am not against Jews or Gentiles who maintain a doctrinal view within Christianity, no problems there, they can stay there, and Christianity is a suitable home for them, not MJ. I was speaking in regards to Jews and Gentiles who hold different doctrines than that of Christianity.

 

[Qnts2]

We are of a different brand. Very very few of us even use the term christ!! And the same number rarely use the term jesus (only when talking to those who don't know "the" Yeshua that we have come to know). We gentile Messianics are as far removed from the christian churches as we can be and still retain Yeshua in our lives. Outside of Messianic Judaism there is no place for us. Dear one, Jews are not the only ones who are having to find a home!
But in your looking you are overlooking and pushing out a group that is to your benefit. Sure we have done some stupid things, and will continue to do so if our elder brethren prefer to push us out rather than act like the big brothers and sisters that you should be. You should be shielding your little, younger siblings and helping us to grow as Yeshua is shielding and training us up.

Actually, I do not view Gentile believers as the younger brothers. In reality, Gentiles have know about Jesus for almost 2000 years, while the Jewish people have been mostly blinded. So, in that sense, Gentiles are the elder brothers.

Most Messianic Jews have no problem using the name Jesus. The resistance to using Jesus actually comes out of a Gentile group called Sacred Name.

Jewish people, in the diaspora, have two names. One name is based on the local language and the second is our Hebrew name. In the NT, Paul is the Greek name and Shaul is the Hebrew name, so Paul had two names. It is therefore no surprise that Yeshua would be called by alternate names in various other languages. While Yeshua has a meaning and Jesus doesn't, people who speak English know Who we are talking about when we say Jesus, but don't usually know when you say Yeshua. This is also true in the English speaking Jewish community. So for clarity, I and others will alternate so those listening and not familiar will know we are talking about who they know of as Jesus.

 

[yedida]

Messianic Judaism is not about keeping the Mosaic law.

Why is Messianic Judaism not called Christianity?

That starts out and remains mainly cultural. Anti-semitic Gentiles often call the Jewish, Christ killers. When I was young, and wondered outside of the Jewish neighborhood, and a Gentile came up to me and asked if I was a Jew, if I said yes, the next words usually contained the term Christ killer, and sometimes it got worse and physical.

In Nazi Germany, the Jews were killed while the Nazis yelled Christ killer.

So, to many Jewish people, the term Christ is a term which is definitely not viewed positively. It has become a curse word in Jewish culture. Christ actually means the same as Messiah, and the term Messiah is a Jewish term, and has positive meaning and specific meaning. So when people say Jesus Christ, it sounds bad to me, but when someone says Jesus the Messiah, that not only has meaning, but is full of prophesy, and good news.

Also, Jewish people in Christian churches also have issues sometimes. When I first attended a church, and was going to celebrate Passover, I was challenged that I was keeping the law. That is also cultural, as the Christian church is fashioned after Gentile culture. Easter is the Gentile way to celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus. Passover and first fruits wave offering is the Jewish way to celebrate and remember the death and resurrection of Jesus. While some might object to Easter, I don't have that issue. Easter to me is not pagan, just foreign.

So, Messianic Judaism is not about keeping the law. Many Messianic Judaism congregations do not keep the law, but they do meet on Shabbat, and celebrate the High Holy days. And do worship in a fashion familiar to most Jewish people and Jewish culture.

It is just baffling to me while you cry, "the gentiles are hurtful to my people" you have droves here in this forum who are not of that caliber. We are as close to orthodox Judaism as one can get while being gentile. And you're continuously pushing us away because of what some other gentiles did. We are being made to pay the price for crimes we did not commit! See what you have here! You have a blessing in this forum. Many of us are as shomer Shabbat as we can get not having a shul within walking distance, and we're not in a place for a horse and buggy!!
Sister, quit fighting against what Hashem is trying to do and open your arms and embrace what you have. Let us, your adopted little brothers and sisters enjoy and learn of what is also rightfully ours in Him!! Sheesh!!!!!

Quit making us fight so hard with you over what should not be an issue. The Torah was given to the Jews to pass it on. We are here trying our best to learn the ins and outs of it and get kicked to the side by someone who feels it's theirs alone. God said to be a light to the nations. You got nations here eager to learn. Get with God's program already!! You got complaints with the way gentiles act? Then instead of holding us at arm's length - TEACH US!! But , by golly, don't even think of making us less than what God has made us - your younger adopted brethren with full "House" rights!!

 

[Qnts2]

It is just baffling to me while you cry, "the gentiles are hurtful to my people" you have droves here in this forum who are not of that caliber. We are as close to orthodox Judaism as one can get while being gentile. And you're continuously pushing us away because of what some other gentiles did. We are being made to pay the price for crimes we did not commit! See what you have here! You have a blessing in this forum. Many of us are as shomer Shabbat as we can get not having a shul within walking distance, and we're not in a place for a horse and buggy!!
Sister, quit fighting against what Hashem is trying to do and open your arms and embrace what you have. Let us, your adopted little brothers and sisters enjoy and learn of what is also rightfully ours in Him!! Sheesh!!!!!

Quit making us fight so hard with you over what should not be an issue. The Torah was given to the Jews to pass it on. We are here trying our best to learn the ins and outs of it and get kicked to the side by someone who feels it's theirs alone. God said to be a light to the nations. You got nations here eager to learn. Get with God's program already!! You got complaints with the way gentiles act? Then instead of holding us at arm's length - TEACH US!! But , by golly, don't even think of making us less than what God has made us - your younger adopted brethren with full "House" rights!!

I am not pushing you away. I have repeatedly said that you are seeking something which is not Messianic Judaism.

You tell me you are as close to Shomer Shabbat as you can get, but I don't really care as that is not Messianic Judaism. And when I try to explain, you get angry and say you don't like what I say and don't have to listen to me. You are right. Every person must choose their own teachers, hopefully wisely. But, if you don't want to learn from me, because you don't like what I teach, you can not turn around and say I am pushing you away. In reality, you are walking away and then complaining that I wasn't what you wanted or expected.

Messianic Judaism is not about being shomer Shabbat. I have tried pointing you to groups who believe closer to what you want, but you for some reason want to be a part of a group you disagree with.

As you are now, with sharing the gospel with the Jewish community as the number one goal, you are more of a detriment as you actually work against the main goal. That doesn't mean you are not a brother or sister, but I am asking for more awareness of the group you want to be part of. It really isn't about the Mosaic law. For example, you can't demand Gentile rights to wear tzitzit when the Jewish people do not think Gentiles are supposed to wear tzitzit and when our goal is to talk with Jewish people about Yeshua.

You might think you must wear tzitzit but the way I read scripture, it was never a command for Gentiles in the Mosaic law or the New Covenant.

 

[xDenax]

We are as close to orthodox Judaism as one can get while being gentile.

Yedida dear, I don't think you should be making that claim.

And you're continuously pushing us away because of what some other gentiles did. We are being made to pay the price for crimes we did not commit!

I've read many of her posts and that is not what she's getting at here.

Many of us are as shomer Shabbat as we can get not having a shul within walking distance, and we're not in a place for a horse and buggy!!

A horse and buggy would not be permissible either. Just a little heads up there.

Quit making us fight so hard with you over what should not be an issue. The Torah was given to the Jews to pass it on. We are here trying our best to learn the ins and outs of it and get kicked to the side by someone who feels it's theirs alone. God said to be a light to the nations. You got nations here eager to learn. Get with God's program already!! You got complaints with the way gentiles act? Then instead of holding us at arm's length - TEACH US!! But , by golly, don't even think of making us less than what God has made us - your younger adopted brethren with full "House" rights!!

It sounds to me like Qnts it just stating a fact that Messianic Judaism was started as an outreach to Jews. That's it. Nothing more. All the rest is a seperate issue. Would you not agree?

 

[visionary]

I am not pushing you away. I have repeatedly said that you are seeking something which is not Messianic Judaism.

You tell me you are as close to Shomer Shabbat as you can get, but I don't really care as that is not Messianic Judaism. And when I try to explain, you get angry and say you don't like what I say and don't have to listen to me. You are right. Every person must choose their own teachers, hopefully wisely. But, if you don't want to learn from me, because you don't like what I teach, you can not turn around and say I am pushing you away. In reality, you are walking away and then complaining that I wasn't what you wanted or expected.

Messianic Judaism is not about being shomer Shabbat. I have tried pointing you to groups who believe closer to what you want, but you for some reason want to be a part of a group you disagree with.

As you are now, with sharing the gospel with the Jewish community as the number one goal, you are more of a detriment as you actually work against the main goal. That doesn't mean you are not a brother or sister, but I am asking for more awareness of the group you want to be part of. It really isn't about the Mosaic law. For example, you can't demand Gentile rights to wear tzitzit when the Jewish people do not think Gentiles are supposed to wear tzitzit and when our goal is to talk with Jewish people about Yeshua.

You might think you must wear tzitzit but the way I read scripture, it was never a command for Gentiles in the Mosaic law or the New Covenant.

Then your definition of Messianic Judaism needs to be upgraded...one isolated organization.. doesn't represent the whole body.

 

[anisavta]

Most Messianic Jews have no problem using the name Jesus. The resistance to using Jesus actually comes out of a Gentile group called Sacred Name.

Please say I and many - but not most. You seem to think you're the spokesperson for Messianic Judaism - but you're not. The Christian/Gentile based MJ communities use Jesus, but the Jewish based ones use Yeshua. The Sacred Name group use various forms of Yeshua ie Yahuah and such.

 

[Qnts2]

Makes me think of the prodigal child coming home and while the Father welcomes us home with open arms, big brother still has some issues with it.

It should not be a surprise that I see the Jewish people who are coming to believe on Jesus as the prodigal child with the Gentiles knowing about Jesus for the past 2000 years and therefore becomes the elder, while the Jewish people have been on the proverbial pig sty rejecting Yeshua.

 

[etZion]

Then your definition of Messianic Judaism needs to be upgraded...one isolated organization.. doesn't represent the whole body.

Yup, I pointed this error out earlier, to say that Messianic Judaism is simply Jews for Jesus, which is by definition an Evangelical Christian organization, does not even touch the fact that there are congregations for MJ's, that in itself disqualifies it as simply being a evangelical organization, as you do not need congregations in order to spread the Gospel. Which means that it does not serve only one purpose as an evangelical organization, instead it is a community, and as already stated, its goal being the Gospel to the Jew first, does not make it no longer a community. For those who do not know this, travel to at least 5 Messianic Synagogues/Congregations and get back with me . It serves many purposes, and one example would be: it is a place for Jews to remain Jews without having to become gentiles, and then there are all the doctrinal conflicts that would come with Christianity that also have their place, as I already stated in previous post.

 

[Qnts2]

Please say I and many - but not most. You seem to think you're the spokesperson for Messianic Judaism - but you're not. The Christian/Gentile based MJ communities use Jesus, but the Jewish based ones use Yeshua. The Sacred Name group use various forms of Yeshua ie Yahuah and such.

I can think of many Messianic Jews who have no issue using the name Jesus, and maybe only 3 who have an issue and will only use Yeshua. That makes it most. At the same time, I know of a lot of Gentiles who are involved in One Law Messianic that I have come across on the internet who have a problem with people using the term Jesus.

Can I say that you claim 'the Jewish based ones' use Yeshua, but I have not found that to be true. From experience, knowing and talking to many Messianic Jewish people, that is not true. Messianic Jews will and do use Jesus, when clear communication is a concern.

 

[visionary]

It should not be a surprise that I see the Jewish people who are coming to believe on Jesus as the prodigal child with the Gentiles knowing about Jesus for the past 2000 years and therefore becomes the elder, while the Jewish people have been on the proverbial pig sty rejecting Yeshua.

I was thinking more along that it is the Gentiles that have been in the pig sty and not home with their Father ... and you my elder brother is not tickled to see me coming home.

 

[anisavta]

I can think of many Messianic Jews who have no issue using the name Jesus, and maybe only 3 who have an issue and will only use Yeshua. That makes it most. At the same time, I know of a lot of Gentiles who are involved in One Law Messianic that I have come across on the internet who have a problem with people using the term Jesus.

Can I say that you claim 'the Jewish based ones' use Yeshua, but I have not found that to be true. From experience, knowing and talking to many Messianic Jewish people, that is not true. Messianic Jews will and do use Jesus, when clear communication is a concern.

Your world is pretty small then. Just came from a MJ conference and Jesus wasn't spoken much but Yeshua was. Interesting that. Oh I forgot - it wasn't J4J.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Well my argument is not whether or not people connect them with doctrines, I am speaking in regard towards doctrinal stances, culture aside.

Doctrinal stances, nonetheless, cannot be disconnected from the cultural aspect since it is the culture which the doctrine was shaped around/designed to impact. It has never been about trying to connect cultures with doctries as much as it has been about seeing where the doctrine already has spoken/given instruction on culture since they cannot be seperated.

Sure, but I am talking with the big picture at hand, not exceptions.

No one here in response is NOT talking about the big picture...nor are the exceptions really "exceptions" (As goes the assumption) since they're very much normative across the wall when one really looks.

I am not against Jews or Gentiles who maintain a doctrinal view within Christianity, no problems there, they can stay there, and Christianity is a suitable home for them, not MJ.

Doesn't change the reality of how Christianity is not SEPERATE from MJ (nor was it deemed such when the MJish movement of the 1960-70s began).

I was speaking in regards to Jews and Gentiles who hold different doctrines than that of Christianity

For those that do, that is within the category of differing variations of MJish believers/camps rather than trying to assert that MJ is not "Christianity"..just as not all versions of what's claimed to be MJ for Gentiles really reflects what other MJewish believers hold in the camp.

 

[Qnts2]

I was thinking more along that it is the Gentiles that have been in the pig sty and not home with their Father ... and you my elder brother is not tickled to see me coming home.

See, that is where I think it is confusing. The Gentiles greatly outnumber the Jewish people and have know about Jesus while the Jewish people are few in number. When I began to believe in Yeshua, it was a predominantly Gentile community that I entered.

Some were happy to see me, and some were outraged. As strange as it sounds, some challenged my belief saying that the Jews rejected Jesus so I had no right to be there.

Are the Jewish people happy to be in a community with Gentiles? Of course we are. But, when the Gentiles come to us and try to alter or change what we believe or what we see as our calling, then the Gentiles really aren't a part of us. We really aren't rejecting you. In a sense, you are rejecting us as you won't join us or even accept us in our purpose and calling.

We welcome any and all Gentiles, who want to join us in the work we are called to do. If you are not called to the same work, that is fine, you are still brothers and sisters but sharing the gospel is our hearts desire and calling. That is the work we are about.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Actually, I do not view Gentile believers as the younger brothers. In reality, Gentiles have know about Jesus for almost 2000 years, while the Jewish people have been mostly blinded. So, in that sense, Gentiles are the elder brothers.
.

If I'm not mistaken, the entire "elder brother" dynamic wasn't even about Jews/Gentiles primarily as much as it was about OUTCAST Jews being looked down upon by other religious Jews.

For the parable of the Prodigal Son in Luke 15:11-31, alongside all the other ones spoken, were shared in light of the Pharisees looking down upon the tax-collectors (deemed traitors/crooks by the Jewish people ) and the prostitutes (unclean, immoral, etc).

Luke 15

The Parable of the Lost Sheep

1 Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. 2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”

3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
​

The three parables on the subject of being lost and found were never primarily about Gentiles being brought back into the Jewish community (in regards to anyone saying "older brothers" are those Jews who don't believe Gentiles are meant to be the same in stance as the Jews). The portrayal of the elder son and his resentment was in many ways a subtle criticism of the grumbling Pharisees and scribes toward those within the Jewish community who they deemed to be lower-class Jews...ones who weren't as "Worthy" of salvation as they were. It is no small issue when Yeshua noted that the tax collectors/prostitutes were entering in before the religious leaders of Christ's day..as they understood their need of salvation (Matthew 21:30-32 )

In regards to the greater context of Luke 15, why were the Pharisees and teachers of the law bothered that Jesus associated with the people he did? The religious leaders were always careful to stay "clean" according to the OT law. In fact, they went well beyond the law in their avoidance of certain people and situations and in their ritual washings. By contrast, Jesus took their concept of "cleanness" lightly. He risked defilement by touching those who had leprosy and by neglecting to wash in the Pharisees' prescribed manner, and he showed complete disregard for their sanctions against associating with certain classes of people. He came to offer salvation to sinners, to show that God loves them...and he wasn't concerned with the accusations brought to him by being with the "wrong crowd."

For the Lord associated with sinners because he wanted to bring people considered beyond hope the Gospel of God's kingdom...just as the shepherd was not concerned so much with the bigger flock as much as he was about that one lost sheep. And with the parable Jesus shared, the younger brother was a perfect example of the Jewish indivduals who went away from the Lord/were redeemed and loved just as strongly by the Father as the older/"righteous" brother was. It was hard for the older brother to accept his younger brother when he returned after living a notoriously sinful life--but the Father had to show him that love required forgivness and compassion.

Does this mean that the story has no application toward Gentiles? Of course not...for all men have been lost at some point and have been found/redeemed. But redeemption has already come for them in the form of His Son (Yeshua)--via faith and being made into sons by adoption. And it's a big stretch to say the text was about giving room to say it reflects Gentiles not being treated as if they're Jewish by other Jews within MJish groups. Gentiles have already been given salvation/redeemption within Christ and justification...and they were never required (as you've often noted) to be about keeping the Mosaic law as Jews were. Others trying to come into MJish fellowships/say they're being "rejected" because they're not treated as if they're the same as Jews may be missing the central focus of what scripture notes when it comes to realizing that both Jew/Gentile are equal partners through Christ and yet they have differing roles within the body. Gentiles don't have to live as Jews in order to achieve acceptance before the Messiah, nor do Jews have to forsake their heritage in order to work with Gentiles---and when it comes to outreach, there's something to be said about how it can be damaging for Gentiles to take having a Ruth-Like calling to be involved in the Jewish community...and extending that to mean they are to have dominance within it.

It's one thing for a Gentile to love/appreciate the Hebraic--but another thing to demand and expect Jewish believers to treat them as if they're Jewish simply because they have a heart for Jewish culture.