Where did I go wrong???

[WildStrawberry]

Seriously. I've been teaching this class of young'ns since they were in 7th grade. My oldest student is a Jr in HS. She informed me yesterday that she doesn't believe that either practicing homosexuals or other unrepentant sinners will go to hell because "they believe in Jesus."

I tried to explain that to have true belief in Jesus, one must have the Holy Spirit calling and leading them. To willfully turn from the Holy Spirit and to sin without being truly repentant (the sin against the Holy Spirit as I understand it) means that that person would "die in their sins" and therefore would not, in fact, go to heaven.

She says that John 3:16 trumps any of that and that I am totally wrong.

I want to rip out my hair.

 

[Aibrean]

You didn't go wrong. Some people just become blinded to the truth. What you have explained is exactly how I would have explained it. You can't be a Christ follower and live in sin. Light and darkness can't intertwine.

 

[DaRev]

One who truly believes in Jesus also believes God's word. God's word tells us that unrepentant sinners will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Practicing homosexuals are unrepentant sinners just as God's word says. Show her where these things are written and ask how one can truly believe in Jesus and yet outright reject what He teaches us.

 

[WildStrawberry]

Thanks, Abriean! I figured I had the right of it.

Rev, I showed her and we've discussed this any number of times over the past 5 years with all the references and stuff. *sigh* I think it's a combo of her school (she attends a "liberal" Roman Catholic school) as well as having friends who are in situations (homosexual as well as actively sexual heterosexual friends) who she doesn't want to believe are going to hell. She says she understands what I'm saying, she just doesn't believe that Jesus would send people to hell for not being repentant of their sins. No matter how many times I've pointed it out in the Bible. I have her reading Romans right now with special focus on 6-8. We're going to discuss it more next week.

 

[Aibrean]

1 Corinthians 6 would seem a good read too.

 

[Luther073082]

The difficult thing is you are asking a 7th grader to come to terms with something that is difficult for adults to come to terms with.

I belive all unrepentant sinners go to hell. I can't say I've come to terms with it yet, I don't know that I ever will.

 

[DaRev]

The difficult thing is you are asking a 7th grader to come to terms with something that is difficult for adults to come to terms with.

I belive all unrepentant sinners go to hell. I can't say I've come to terms with it yet, I don't know that I ever will.

Her student is a junior in high school.

 

[Luther073082]

Her student is a junior in high school.

Oh re-read it, saw the 7th grade thing and thought it referred to the age of the kid. Sorry.

Probably should point out that especially at her age. . . she's going to think for herself and she's going to develop her own faith. Unfortunutly and fortunutly we can't make our children agree with us on everything.

Unfortunutly because we want our children to belive in the truth.

Fortunutly because if I agreed with my parents on everything. . . I'd believe in a vending machine God that agrees with everything I say and do no matter what.

 

[porterross]

Teenagers!
It happens to a lot of kids, Kae. I was influenced by worldly justification and decided that such black and white, right and wrong logic was unloving when I was a late teen/early 20's, half-baked human, too.

Hopefully, once those kids get a real taste of the emptiness of the world's idea of "free love", they'll stop ignoring the Holy Spirit screaming at them. Unfortunately, their peers, advertising and Hollywood scream pretty loud, too, and it all seems normal to them. When you're that age, it's hard to find a quiet place to hear God and know that it's OK to go against the crowd.

This can take time and be a painful process, especially for the hard-headed and independent who think they're smarter than most other people. Trust me on this.

Just remember Proverbs 22:6 and keep doing what you're doing. It has sunk in and will be there when they come to a point of falling back on the Truth.

Proverbs 22:6
http://www.esvbible.org/Ep6.4;2Tm3.15/Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it.

 

[Resha Caner]

There are some subtleties in situations like this that are difficult for anyone to grasp. Leaning too much on the attitude toward homosexuality could turn this into works righteousness. Leaning too much on love could enable the sin. As always, it becomes a balancing act between law and gospel.

If the person refuses to acknowledge that homosexuality is a sin, that is definitely a problem. It could most definitely lead to hell. But we don't know what the final result will be, and we need to leave that in God's hands. He is the judge of a particular person's eternal fate. Not us.

I've known people to take hard stands against Biblical morality, and I could almost feel how cold their soul was. I've also seen people take the same hard stand with obvious pain in their eyes.

Even though the verdict of the law is unchanging, the approach to each person needs some consideration. I would say the most important thing is to pray for the guidance of the Spirit and don't give up.

 

[WildStrawberry]

I thought and prayed over this last night and I guess the thing that's bothering me is that I feel like I've failed. I KNOW that's not true...but it's how it feels.

I don't expect my kids to agree with me on everything. We have been discussing the trials that Christian youth face with postmodern thinking. This is a big part of it. Postmodern thought doesn't leave room for absolute truths and the truth that unrepentant sinners go to hell is an absolute.

I have always told my kids that, in the end, God is merciful and just. He will save where He will and I can't say what is in anyone's heart, that ability lies with God alone. However, we still have these truths. The Bible is truth and once you start tossing out any bit of it in favor of your own desires.

 

[Resha Caner]

I feel like I've failed.

I know it feels that way, but you don't sound like a failure to me. I suspect, rather, that God has given you the gift necessary for the situation. I think the loneliest, most frightening part is when all you can do is persevere - when it seems like the only possible result is failure. Been there - recently. Just remember that God is faithful.

 

[WildStrawberry]

Thanks, Resha. I needed these kind words tonight. *G* I guess I need to get back to preparing my Bible Study for next week's Sunday School lesson.

 

[Luther073082]

I thought and prayed over this last night and I guess the thing that's bothering me is that I feel like I've failed. I KNOW that's not true...but it's how it feels.

I don't expect my kids to agree with me on everything. We have been discussing the trials that Christian youth face with postmodern thinking. This is a big part of it. Postmodern thought doesn't leave room for absolute truths and the truth that unrepentant sinners go to hell is an absolute.

I have always told my kids that, in the end, God is merciful and just. He will save where He will and I can't say what is in anyone's heart, that ability lies with God alone. However, we still have these truths. The Bible is truth and once you start tossing out any bit of it in favor of your own desires.

Nah you didn't fail, its the simple fact that you have a teenager and they have independent minds and that cuts both ways to the good and to the bad.

Just continue to teach the truth and show her these things.

Generally the way I thought about it best was that God could not be a loving God if he forced people who want nothing to do with him to be with him for eternity. So if a person does not want to be with God, there is only one other option left.

 

[Stephan2050]

What if the person is just having homosexual thoughts or desires...is that a sin?

 

[alexnbethmom]

looking at or thinking of a person (whatever the sex) outside of marriage (between a man and a woman, not 2 men or 2 women) lustfully is the same thing as actually committing the act - so yes, it would be.

 

[LilLamb219]

What if the person is just having homosexual thoughts or desires...is that a sin?

I would think that would go in line with what Jesus said when he talked about lustful thoughts being sinful. Matthew 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

 

[Lutheran021342]

One of the biggest problems I have discovered with trying to show a teenager or young adult a message by using Bible verses is that the better they are versed in the Bible, the more easily they can find passage that contradict the message you try to tell them. There are many contradictory passages in the Bible, and as is stated before, the difficult choices are hard for adults to grasp, much less a young person. It is much easier to choose to listen only to those verses that seem to support one's position.

 

[Tangible]

I'll grant that it is a difficult concept to grasp that on the one hand all our sins, past-present-future, are completely forgiven in Christ, and yet on the other hand that out of our love for God and thankfulness for our salvation we are to fight to the death against the desires of our sinful nature.

A right understanding of repentance is the key.

I would hazard to guess that if someone like Paul still struggled with sin (Rom 7) that no one else is going to do much better.

In our present state sin actually serves a purpose. It keeps us humble, keeps us from trusting in our own works for salvation, and keeps us crawling back to the one place salvation can be found, back to the finished work of Christ on our behalf, which is given freely and without measure in our Baptism, in the Sacrament of the Altar, and in God's Word of Absolution.

 

[peggy sue]

Seriously. I've been teaching this class of young'ns since they were in 7th grade. My oldest student is a Jr in HS. She informed me yesterday that she doesn't believe that either practicing homosexuals or other unrepentant sinners will go to hell because "they believe in Jesus."

I tried to explain that to have true belief in Jesus, one must have the Holy Spirit calling and leading them. To willfully turn from the Holy Spirit and to sin without being truly repentant (the sin against the Holy Spirit as I understand it) means that that person would "die in their sins" and therefore would not, in fact, go to heaven.

She says that John 3:16 trumps any of that and that I am totally wrong.

I want to rip out my hair.

is this a public school student