When was Jesus born ? In what way did he himself ask that followers remember him?

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cupid dave

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As I have said repeatedly: after Jesus died. And after Tarfon first introduced the fifth cup.

So your claim that the "rabbi had been arguing about the fifth cup for centuries before Jesus answered the questioned" is, now by your own admission, wrong.


LOL

They still argue it.
The question was to be answered when Elijah came.

They did not recognize Christ in 32AD.

Your position is lame.

That the Rabbi of @200AD placed the matter in writing does not mean they had just started their debate.

The Talmud was a collection of what had been Judaism in 32AD, and was largely composed just because of the Christianity which they wanted to defend against.

It is foolish to argue that for 800 years, since Elijah had left, that the Jews would have just started looking for his return at the Seder.
And it is equally as foolish to think the fifth cup debate suddenly arose for the first time after 1562 years of Passovers since Moses.

It is more probable that you defend against the Eucharist because it ritualized the argument that Jesus was answering the ancient query.
 
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Blackmarch

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... according to scripture, Jesus was born at a time of year when shepherds watched their flocks by night IN THE FIELDS :-

Luke 2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

- just as in those times flocks are kept INDOORS in Winter in the Holy Land ... in other words the fact that the shepherds and flocks were in the fields at night PROVES it was LAMBING time in the Spring when Jesus was born , not mid-winter ...

the LAMB of God was born at the start of the holy year still kept by Israel as set out in scripture for all who realise there is but ONE God of all men, not many gods of the many sects and denomination decreed by men, not God ... because there are countless differences in traditions of men we know they must almost all, perhaps all , be wrong, the bible PROVES they are indeed all wrong , none keep the right days ...

the irony about Xmas though is that Jesus never had an annual birthday anyway, that is a pagan astrological [Babylonian] tradition not kept by Israel ... just see how far human religious tradition has strayed from the truth of scripture ...

Let Jesus have the last say on this, what did he say folks who followed him truly should keep in memory of him ?

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

NOT a weekly ritual, but the annual celebration of Passover :-

Matthew 26:18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.

so the LAMB of God [was born and] died in the Spring, at Passover , not at Xmas , nor at Easter... and so very few indeed do what Jesus said was the only way to remember him ...

Jesus was lamb of God sacrificed for the few who follow him in this world [Matt 7:13-14] so that the many can be saved later [Rev 7:9-10] who are destroyed in this life [Matt 7:13] ... that is why his followers celebrate his death at Passover as he asked, it is the meaningful way to do so which he himself chose for good reason... those who disovbey him as Lord obviously cannot rightly claim he is their lord ... a 'lord' is someone whom one obeys, as Jesus also said clearly ... we see that few already obey Jesus as Lord and that this too was destined to be true, prophesied ... but know then what it means for the countless many who keep Xmas and Easter and harvest festival , adapted pagan god memorials, in place of the memorial days proclaimed by God for His purpose in the few ...
there isn't any solid date for his birth. I do find it interesting that what instituted to remember him points to his atonement- his suffering, death and resurrection.
 
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H

Huram Abi

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LOL

They still argue it.
The question was to be answered when Elijah came.

They did not recognize Christ in 32AD.

Your position is lame.

That the Rabbi of @200AD placed the matter in writing does not mean they had just started their debate.

The Talmud was a collection of what had been Judaism in 32AD, and was largely composed just because of the Christianity which they wanted to defend against.

It is foolish to argue that for 800 years, since Elijah had left, that the Jews would have just started looking for his return at the Seder.
And it is equally as foolish to think the fifth cup debate suddenly arose for the first time after 1562 years of Passovers since Moses.

It is more probable that you defend against the Eucharist because it ritualized the argument that Jesus was answering the ancient query.


You know that the fifth cup debate began with Tarfon who was the first to begin pouring the fifth cup. This is well documented.

There was no debate before Tarfon.
 
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Huram Abi

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LOL

Jesus is proof in answering the question by saying drink it.

If the question had not long been around during the 800 years since Elijah had ascended the eucharist would hvae been a strange coincidence at the same Passover Seder where it still sits on everyone of your Jewish tables.


Do yourself a favor and look up The Birkat Hamazon.
 
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Huram Abi

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You are more than twisting.

Clearly, both Elijah and Jesus have advocates who argue three separate cases.
Some say they were born miraculously.
Others that they were born of one tribe, while another claim a different tribe.


Elijah = 1) miraculous birth; 2) a levite; 3) a Benjaminite

Jesus = 1) virgin birth; 2) a Judahite; 3) a Levite


No one cares about what a nameless "some" say.

What does the bible say?


Oh, that's right.... That John the Baptist was Elijah.
 
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cupid dave

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cupid dave

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For the same reason you hand-wave away that Jesus said that John was Elijah, we can also ignore what John says here.

What are your excuses again? Oh, yes... he was under pressure and told them what they wanted to hear.



John 1:21
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.




Your point is well taken for a number of reasons.

We debate this matter clearly because the testament that has come down is unclear and is open to tsuch a debate.

This suggests that my argument has as much merit as the traditional and authoritative argument that Christ was not the great miracle worker Elijah who was to come back from the dead.

But that this matter is so presented such that we can "wave it away" on both sides suggests it was intentionally reported to be unknown for sure at the time.
We can see that John is specific and clear whie the oter verse can be waved away one way or the other.

We must also read that Jesus was almost tar and feathered by his own synagogue for trying to tellus who he was.

Fact and Lesson from this:
A man claiming toi be a messiah will be ridiculed and ignored and verbally challanged and abused as if he is a mad manfor being honest when the case is that he is the messiah.




Lesson:
No need to tell, just do your thing.

The people of the generation will decide after the fact.
 
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strangertoo

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Please give me the bottom line.

I am reluctant to hit links that I do not know because viruses can be contaracted.

What is the point you would like to make???

get AVG [for free] , it will protect you from viruses and a lot more...
 
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Huram Abi

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John 1:21
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.




Your point is well taken for a number of reasons.

We debate this matter clearly because the testament that has come down is unclear and is open to tsuch a debate.

This suggests that my argument has as much merit as the traditional and authoritative argument that Christ was not the great miracle worker Elijah who was to come back from the dead.

But that this matter is so presented such that we can "wave it away" on both sides suggests it was intentionally reported to be unknown for sure at the time.
We can see that John is specific and clear whie the oter verse can be waved away one way or the other.

We must also read that Jesus was almost tar and feathered by his own synagogue for trying to tellus who he was.

Fact and Lesson from this:
A man claiming toi be a messiah will be ridiculed and ignored and verbally challanged and abused as if he is a mad manfor being honest when the case is that he is the messiah.




Lesson:
No need to tell, just do your thing.

The people of the generation will decide after the fact.


Yet, you ignore the fundamental decider, Gabriel, who had no fear of retribution and told John's father privately that John was Elijah.

All the exceptions you make on why Jesus was "lying" (that should be enough to show that you are wrong because Jesus was without sin, but I digress), Gabriel does not have any motivation or fear to coerce him to give false witness.

He is not in front of a Synagogue, he is in no danger, and no one is peer pressuring him to say something he otherwise would not. You cannot wave that away.


One last thing, Elijah is the forerunner to the messiah, so whatever you are talking about "a man claiming toi be a messiah will be ridiculed and ignored and verbally challanged and abused" is not relevant to Elijah.

If you are saying that Jesus was too scared to say that he was the messiah, you are wrong.
 
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he-man

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Yet, you ignore the fundamental decider, Gabriel, who had no fear of retribution and told John's father privately that John was Elijah.
One last thing, Elijah is the forerunner to the messiah, so whatever you are talking about "a man claiming to be a messiah will be ridiculed and ignored and verbally challanged and abused" is not relevant to Elijah.
Here we have the record that Christ was ridiculed and ignored and verbally challanged and abused and is the Spiritual representative of Elias and we are told he will be killed and they will do to him, as many as wanted, even as it is written for him."

It would be redundant for Moses and Elias to talk with them and for Peter to ask to build 3 tabernacles; one for Christ, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Mr 9:11 And they asked him, saying, That the learned in the Mosaic law say that Elias comes to witness first?
12 And he answered them, "Indeed, Elijah is coming first and restores all things. And how is it written for the Son of Man, that he should suffer many things and should be killed?
13 But I say to you that Elias has come, and they will do to him, as many as wanted, even as it is written for him."

Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

4
Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

It is unmistakeably clear, that the coming of Christ as Elias is foretold as a day of judgement when Christ returns the 2nd time.
Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Mal 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Mal 3:4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
Mal 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.
 
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zeke37

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Yeshua was probably born around midnight on May 26, 7BC. Some so-called experts think he was probably born in late March or early 6BC. They base their claims on astrological aspects that they believe the Magi would have honored as meaning a Jewsih king-to-be had been born in the Holy Land. According ot others, the May 26 7BC date is more likely the right date....
we can figure it out from the bible, through Zec.'s course of Abiah,
which is a calulatable date.
each of the 24 courses (of the priests) happens twice a year.
using our brain matter, we can deduce which of the two courses of Abiah it was,
and then apply simple math

John's birth was 9 months removed from that date.
Jesus' birth was 6 months removed from John's.

after we do the math, and use or brain matter,
it seems the Lord was born in late Sept, 28/29th ish
thus concieved on or about Christimas.

so i can celebrate (if i want to) Christmas as His conception date, not birthdate.:clap:


anyone wanting to look into this further, needs to study the "courses of the priests"
 
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Steve Petersen

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Glad to see someone out there paying attention.

My own calculations put it somewhere between early and mid-October, which isn't far from where you are at. I would, however, be reluctant to put a specific date there for looking like those guessers who are cerain of specific events.

I am quite satisfied by saying Late September to Mid-October

Right about the time of the Feast of Tabernacles.

See John 1: 'he tabernacled among us.'

The Greek (skeneoo) is a semitism. It is the same root as the word 'mishkan' in Hebrew. 'Mishkan' is translated 'tabernacle' in the OT.
 
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