Have you guys seen this I hate Religion but Love Jesus by Jefferson Bethke?

LectureYou

Newbie
Jan 13, 2012
2
0
✟15,112.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Just wondering if anyone has seen this video by Jefferson Bethke about HATING Religion but loving Jesus. It went viral in 2 days.


Lectureyou . com

The Video is on youtube. I'm trying to post it here but its not allowing me. But the video is also at the link above. Let me know what you guys think.
 

Incariol

Newbie
Apr 22, 2011
5,710
251
✟7,523.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Just wondering if anyone has seen this video by Jefferson Bethke about HATING Religion but loving Jesus. It went viral in 2 days.


Lectureyou . com

The Video is on youtube. I'm trying to post it here but its not allowing me. But the video is also at the link above. Let me know what you guys think.

I've seen it. It pains me, it's pretty bad. Just because someone can rhyme and make a pretty video doesn't mean the theology isn't awful.
 
Upvote 0

Incariol

Newbie
Apr 22, 2011
5,710
251
✟7,523.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Explain to us, with scripture as a source, which I want you to quote, which part of what he said is unbiblical.

ROFL why should I?

First, I never said it was "unbiblical", I said it was "bad theology". Second, try asking politely. You aren't entitled to demands on my time.

Though he did say a fair amount of things that are unbiblical, that is true.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

peckaboo

Newbie
Jul 11, 2011
394
33
England
✟8,184.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There are a few things I really like about this video (some of them have been pointed out to me; I didn't spot them all myself):
He's willing to step up to the plate and acknowledge the hypocrisy in the church, and his own part in that.
He doesn't shy away from the arguments that non-Christians put forward against that Christian religion, such as "it's the cause of so many wars", "'sinners' like divorcees aren't allowed in", the aforementioned hypocrisy, etc.
He names and shames the political aspirations of much of the church - ok he uses US terms, but we have the same "real Christians vote Tory" attitude in the UK to a lesser extent, even though Jesus' own attitudes could be argued to have been distinctly more left-wing than those of the Republican/Tory parties.
He acknowledges (albeit briefly) the problem of inappropriate contentography in the church. As we can see on these forums, this is a huge problem in the church, and nobody's talking openly about it; it's all done anonymously on the internet.

There are some things that could be theologically controversial. "Religion is man searching for God; Christianity is God searching for man" gets into the whole free will/predestination debate for example.

Incariol, I would also be curious to know what you disagreed with theologically, largely because I'm not well enough schooled in theology to know what you mean, but would like to understand.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Incariol

Newbie
Apr 22, 2011
5,710
251
✟7,523.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Incariol, I would also be curious to know what you disagreed with theologically, largely because I'm not well enough schooled in theology to know what you mean, but would like to understand.

Aha, someone asks nicely! :)

First, I'll link this, since Fr. Andrew dissects the whole video much better than I'll ever be able to, but I'll summarize.

Why I Love (True) Religion Because I Love Jesus « Roads from Emmaus

First, Jesus certainly did not come to abolish religion. That is patently absurd. "Religion" is a belief system. Christ came to bring belief, and gave the Great Commission of preaching belief to all the nations, soooo... the video guy is simply wrong.

Second, he does this whole rant about being Christian not meaning voting Republican... Which is true, but that is an absurd criticism of the Christian religion, since outside the Bible belt in the USA, nobody would take that view seriously.

He claims religion starts wars. This is not true. Religion may have been an excuse to start wars, but anything more than a cursory examination of history shows pretty clearly that all those "religious" wars were in truth motivated by other factors. Religion was just a convenient PR excuse.

He blames the church failing to "feed the poor".
1. Why are building beautiful places to worship God, bad? I honestly don't get the whole anti-art movement.
2. EVERY church and religion and charity fails to feed the poor. As it is, the largest charities in existence are Christian organizations. Complaining that they have failed thus far to solve WORLD HUNGER is breathtakingly stupid.


He says "religion" tells single moms that God doesn't love them. Blatant lie. I can't think of anyone outside of Westboro Baptist spewing drivel like that.


He says religion "mocked John the Baptist", which is rather funny, since St. John was born a priest and spent his life as a prophet and practicing a religious ritual known as "baptism".

One of my favorite parts is "Now I ain' judgin", which is really ironic, since his entire video is really just an anti-Christian screed so far.

There's this bit:

See this was me too, but no one seemed to be on to me.
Acting like a church kid while addicted to inappropriate contentography.
You see on Sunday I’d go to church but Saturday getting faded, acting if I was simply created to just have sex and get wasted.
See I’ve spent my whole life building this façade of neatness.

Which is cute, because this is hardly a criticism of religion, just human behavior. I really don't get it. Is Christianity worthless if everyone in the Church cannot perfectly uphold the moral code? I thought the entire point of grace was that we couldn't keep the Law and be saved by obedience to it...

But,

But now that I know Jesus, I boast in my weakness.
Because if grace is water, then the church should be an ocean.
It’s not a museum for good people; it’s a hospital for the broken.

This contradicts what he just said. Is the Church bad for having people "getting faded" and having "sex and get[ing] wasted"? Or is it a "hospital for the broken"? He can't simultaneously condemn and praise the Church as being a place with sinners. :doh:


See because when I was God’s enemy, and certainly not a fan, He looked down and said I want that man.
Which was why Jesus hated religion, and for it he called them fools.

No, Jesus never hated religion. He hated the hypocrisy of the scribes and Pharisees, but he didn't hate Judaism and turn into an atheist or agnostic. This is simply a lie which is obvious to readers of the Gospels.

Heck, Jesus didn't even tell people to not obey the Pharisees, he specifically told them to obey them, as they "sat in Moses' seat".

"The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe,[a]that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do" --Matthew 23:1-3

Don’t you see so much better than just following some rules?

Now let me clarify, I love the church, I love the Bible, and yes I believe in sin.

So does he believe in sin, or does he believe he has found something better than following "some rules"? Which is it? Anyways, yes, the Church needs rules to be a coherent organization. That is basic sociology.




Now back to the point, one thing is vital to mention, how Jesus and religion are on opposite spectrums.
See one’s the work of God, but one’s a man made invention, see one is the cure, but the other’s the infection.

1. No they are not on opposite spectrums, Jesus came to redeem us and establish a religion.

2. I thought sin was the major infection of mankind. He is confusing his basic theology now.

See because, religion says do, Jesus says done, religion says slave, Jesus says son.

Philippians 3:12

"12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me."


And he goes on to spout a 7th century Christian heresy known as Monergism for a bit...


Because He took the crown of thorns and the blood dripped down His face, He took what we all deserved, I guess that’s why you call it grace.

No, grace is a gift, what describes there is, as Fr. Andrew points out, substitutionary atonement.

Which is why I’m kneeling at the cross saying, “C’mon, there’s room.”

This is especially rich in irony because the one and only time I've seen Christians actually kneel at a cross is in the most "religious" of denominations, specifically Catholicism and Orthodoxy which has an entire feast day in which the Sunday service involves a lot of kneeling and prostrations to the Cross.

Elevation of the Holy Cross - OrthodoxWiki


So for religion, no I hate it, in fact I literally resent it, because when Jesus said, “It is finished,” I believe He meant it.

Best finished in Fr. Andrew's own words.

Hatred and resentment (and I really mean this, too) are very dangerous places from which to build a theology. I also believe that Jesus meant it when He said “It is finished” (literally, “the purpose is fulfilled” or “it is consummated,” depending on whether you’re reading Greek or Latin), but there’s absolutely no indication anywhere in His words, the words of His Apostles, or the words of those who received the Apostles’ teaching (the Church) that what was “finished” is “religion.”

By the by, if you click the link and this looks familiar, that's because I'm largely summarizing from him.
 
Upvote 0

ezeric

HE loves me too.
Mar 2, 2010
2,262
166
Canada but really in JESUS! (in HIS Covenant)
Visit site
✟12,835.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Anyways, yes, the Church needs rules to be a coherent organization. That is basic sociology.


Here is the big dividing point, and the crux of the entire problem!
And its a big problem! The church as we know it is a FAR CRY from what it should be, and GOD wont apologize to us, because we do things our own way!

-eric
http://the-exchanged-life.blogspot.com/
 
Upvote 0

LectureYou

Newbie
Jan 13, 2012
2
0
✟15,112.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Thanks for all the replies guys! it seems like i just started a huge debate! oops!

I just started this blog, and I was hoping to get some traffic off of it, and see what u guys thought of what i wrote and what exactly you thought of the video.

If you guys could maybe debate on my site under the comments that would be awesome! :)
 
Upvote 0

ShiningBecky

Love is what matters, not dogma
Jan 4, 2012
305
10
My room :)
✟535.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
I haven't watched it yet, but everyone on my Facebook page is raving over it. I think I had better give it a view! I pretty much agree with his premise already. If religion were such a good thing, I imagine I would have no interest in watching it. I've said for years that the church is the people, not the organized religion down the street. But I guess if you're religious and attached to your traditions, you're not bound to like the video.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Fearless12

Newbie
Jan 1, 2012
34
5
✟15,189.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
But I guess if you're religious and attached to your traditions, you're not bound to like the video.

Exactly.

It's great... So many churches steeped in biblically unfounded traditions are looking at the growing disconnect between church and society as a side effect of their superior knowledge of all things holy. Others are scratching their heads, wondering why in the world people are growing less and less attracted to the gospel. Some are even altogether unaware or unconcerned about it.

But Bethke and others like him are, by speaking to the heart, reaching the masses with the gospel. I think it's brilliant.
 
Upvote 0

Fearless12

Newbie
Jan 1, 2012
34
5
✟15,189.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
frankly I think that this mentality has been around longer than one would expect but people just didn't voice it much nor really express this until recently. . . which is curious.

That's true. I've known plenty who think this way, but the interesting thing is how many people the message is reaching with this one video.
 
Upvote 0

Incariol

Newbie
Apr 22, 2011
5,710
251
✟7,523.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
I haven't watched it yet, but everyone on my Facebook page is raving over it. I think I had better give it a view! I pretty much agree with his premise already. If religion were such a good thing, I imagine I would have no interest in watching it. I've said for years that the church is the people, not the organized religion down the street. But I guess if you're religious and attached to your traditions, you're not bound to like the video.

You do realize that every single theist in the world is religious by definition, including you, right?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Autumnleaf

Legend
Jun 18, 2005
24,828
1,034
✟33,297.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
You do realize that every single theist in the world is religious by definition, including you, right?

Wrong.

the·ism (th
emacr.gif
prime.gif
ibreve.gif
z
lprime.gif
schwa.gif
m)n. Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.

the
prime.gif
ist
n.
the·is
prime.gif
tic
, the·is
prime.gif
ti·cal
adj.
the·is
prime.gif
ti·cal·ly
adv.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
 
Upvote 0