Pastor Rob Bell Leaving Mars Hill Church

[brightmorningstar]

awakeningaletheia

It doesn't matter how much I quote scripture, people will still state their opinion and largely ignore what the SCRIPTURES say. I can play that game too. Let me show you what you sound like to me.

You have played it. What does scripture say? Does it say what its says or not?

Yes we wish all to be saved and yes God wishes all choose to be saved

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


As to who hasnt heard the gospel, we dont know, but we can expect that they will hear, Jesus witnessed to the dead, and the gospel is to be preached throughtout the world.
It would seem, as with Matt 25, that it will be from those who hear the full gospel who might not be saved.

 

[woodpecker]

found this Christian program called "Wretched", on youtube, after watching this one on Rob Bell, please check out his other clips, a great teacher for these modern days.

Rob Bell Examined on Wretched - YouTube

 

[Gnarwhal]

found this Christian program called "Wretched", on youtube, after watching this one on Rob Bell, please check out his other clips, a great teacher for these modern days.

Rob Bell Examined on Wretched - YouTube

Who is, Bell or whoever hosts this video?

 

[woodpecker]

here is an introduction to the show. Rob Bell is a pastor who wrote a book teaching all people will be saved, and hell exist here on earth, by our own choices we create hell, it is not a physical place where non believers go. Which of course is not what the bible teaches.

Wretched (TV Show) - YouTube

 

[Gnarwhal]

here is an introduction to the show. Rob Bell is a pastor who wrote a book teaching all people will be saved, and hell exist here on earth, by our own choices we create hell, it is not a physical place where non believers go. Which of course is not what the bible teaches.

Wretched (TV Show) - YouTube

He does not teach emphatically that all will be saved. He has only ever said he wants to leave space for the possibility that all may be saved through Jesus. Furthermore, hell does exist here on earth right now. To deny such is to utterly lack compassion for the turmoil that people suffer around the world. Dirty drinking water that poisons entire communities and kills staggering amounts of children each year is hell on earth. Nine-year-old girls being pimped out to perverted 45-year-old men in Thailand is hell on earth. Hard working couples be scammed out of their life savings by a swindler half a world away is hell on earth. To believe otherwise is complete folly.

Rob Bell never denies hell, and he never asserts that everyone is going to get their by their own means. He hypothesizes that eventually everyone may choose Jesus and if and when they do they may enter into his presence. So your claims to the contrary, along with everyone else's are incorrect.

 

[woodpecker]

yes life is suffering and turmoil, but it is not the literal hell the bible is talking about.

Why do you think the title of his book is 'Love Wins', because all will be saved.

He is a sneaky serpent, claiming truth with lies, and those who do not like the thought of hell, run to his lies.

I will not be entering back into this debate, for it has throughly been disgust, just wanted to share this internet show, Wretched, I highly recommend it.

 

[Gnarwhal]

yes life is suffering and turmoil, but it is not the literal hell the bible is talking about.

Why do you think the title of his book is 'Love Wins', because all will be saved.

He is a sneaky serpent, claiming truth with lies, and those who do not like the thought of hell, run to his lies.

I will not be entering back into this debate, for it has throughly been disgust, just wanted to share this internet show, Wretched, I highly recommend it.

It's called Love Wins because God is love, and if he's love than it's possible that if people surrender to his son in eternity that he will still reconcile them to himself.

He's not making a claim either way, he's saying it would make sense if everyone eventually chose Jesus that they were saved because that would be consistent with the love of God.

 

[WinBySurrender]

It's called Love Wins because God is love, and if he's love than it's possible that if people surrender to his son in eternity that he will still reconcile them to himself.

After they're dead?? No, impossible. Each one of us has but one life, and we are responsible for how we live that life. Others may influence our choices, but ultimately we must give an account for the choices we make. Once life is over, there are no more choices to be made; we have no choice but to face judgment. The prayers of others may express their desires, but they won’t change the outcome. The time to pray for a person is while he or she lives and there is still the possibility of his or her heart, attitudes, and behavior being changed.

Romans 2
3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God?
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,

 

[brightmorningstar]

He's not making a claim either way, he's saying it would make sense if everyone eventually chose Jesus that they were saved because that would be consistent with the love of God.

But actually that doesnt make sense as Jesus said He will separate some to eternal death. What you and Rob Bell seem to mean is that it makes sense to the likes of you, but neither you nor Rob Bell are God.

 

[Gnarwhal]

After they're dead?? No, impossible. Each one of us has but one life, and we are responsible for how we live that life. Others may influence our choices, but ultimately we must give an account for the choices we make. Once life is over, there are no more choices to be made; we have no choice but to face judgment. The prayers of others may express their desires, but they won’t change the outcome. The time to pray for a person is while he or she lives and there is still the possibility of his or her heart, attitudes, and behavior being changed.

Romans 2
3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God?
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,

That scripture doesn't point to eternal torment, it indicates punishment but not a punishment that's everlasting. I do believe punishment is consistent with God's love, but if that were to stretch into eternity that seems to outweigh the petty 70, 80 or 90 years we may spend on this Earth. I think for each person that receives punishment, it may run its course and they'll call on Jesus. At which point God will say "ok, you've learned your lesson".

 

[Gnarwhal]

But actually that doesnt make sense as Jesus said He will separate some to eternal death. What you and Rob Bell seem to mean is that it makes sense to the likes of you, but neither you nor Rob Bell are God.

Neither are you though.

 

[WinBySurrender]

That scripture doesn't point to eternal torment, it indicates punishment but not a punishment that's everlasting.

Provide proof, please.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Provide proof, please.

The proof is your post.

In the passage you posted there's a contrast between eternal life in verse seven and wrath and anger in verse eight. It's not unlike a child that continuously misbehaves, the parents warn them that their punishment would be bad and if they keep misbehaving the severity would increase, but ultimately it has an end.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Neither are you though.

But if you believe the Bible is His testimony, then you have heard His teaching on the subject, which is what I cited to you.

We must assume therefore that when it says all wil be saved through Christ, it means any saving and all saving for those involved will be done through Christ, He is the way. We must also assume that when it says every knee shall bow and confess He is Lord it means even those destined to be judged by Christ for eternal death will know that He is Lord and thus be bowing and confessing it.

If one doesnt, there are contradictions and one has to decide which of the two contradictions to believe. Thats not understanding God's revelation, that is misunderstanding it and seeking a view that suits the person.

 

[WinBySurrender]

The proof is your post.

In the passage you posted there's a contrast between eternal life in verse seven and wrath and anger in verse eight. It's not unlike a child that continuously misbehaves, the parents warn them that their punishment would be bad and if they keep misbehaving the severity would increase, but ultimately it has an end.

You choose to misinterpret the passage and then insist that your understanding is correct. It is not. So be it.

 

[Gnarwhal]

But if you believe the Bible is His testimony, then you have heard His teaching on the subject, which is what I cited to you.

We must assume therefore that when it says all wil be saved through Christ, it means any saving and all saving for those involved will be done through Christ, He is the way. We must also assume that when it says every knee shall bow and confess He is Lord it means even those destined to be judged by Christ for eternal death will know that He is Lord and thus be bowing and confessing it.

If one doesnt, there are contradictions and one has to decide which of the two contradictions to believe. Thats not understanding God's revelation, that is misunderstanding it and seeking a view that suits the person.

Indeed, Bell and I both affirm that Jesus is the way. Not Buddha, not Nirrti or Joseph Smith but Jesus Christ. We also affirm the scriptures and when they say "reconcile to himself all things whether on Earth or in heaven by making peace through his blood shed on the cross" we leave room for the possibility that the grace expressed there extends to everyone.

You choose to misinterpret the passage and then insist that your understanding is correct. It is not. So be it.

Likewise.