Who believes this to be true? -We are saved by Torah, not by faith/grace in Yeshua

[yedida]

There are other cases in Tanakh where people were resurrected. Seems some things aren't so easily catagorized.

My mind is drawing a blank so --- were they resurrected to live and die again or were they resurrected to not die again? I would think that it makes a difference.

 

[Lulav]

Not sure why that posted twice, sorry, I'm having trouble on my end, I crashed twice yesterday and today it's still very slow.

 

[Lulav]

Here's some examples

From the 'OT"

The widow's son by Elijah (1 Kings 17:21-24)

The Shunammite's son by Elisha (2 Kings 4:32-35).

A man whose body had been placed in Elisha's tomb (2 Kings 13:20-21).

From the 'NT'

Lazarus by Jesus Christ (John 11:43-44).

The widow’s son by Jesus. (Luke 7:12-17)

A number of people at the moment of the death of Jesus Christ (Matthew 27:51-53)

The daughter of Jairus by Jesus (Mk 5:39-40)

Eutychus raised back to life through Paul after he fell out of a third-floor window (Acts 20:9-12).

Tabitha by Peter (Acts 9:36-43)

 

[Gxg (G²)]

There is a distinction between Lazarus and the other two - Eliyahu and Enoch didn't physically die, they were taken (so it seems) alive.

Also, it seems that Lazarus and not Yeshua would be setting precedent in that he was raised from the dead to be with the Lord forever before Yeshua had done such. You think?

Technically, there were already things where Yeshua was following precedence. For he wasn't the first one to rise from the grave---and traditionally, Enoch and Elijah (As types of the Messiah) were considered to be those who effectively "beat" death by the Lord not allowing them to die....and with Yeshua, although his body died physically, His spirit always remained alive. Thus, death truly could not contain him/put Him out fully....

The one thing that set apart Yeshua apart in His resurrection/escape from death from others was that He was the only one who could qualify as a flawless sacrifice to redeem men--and enable ALL men to do the same in having full life...the Same Spirit that raised Christ from the grave is now within all of the believers rather than a select few who only had the Spirit in serious limitation. Thoughts?

 

[pat34lee]

There is a distinction between Lazarus and the other two - Eliyahu and Enoch didn't physically die, they were taken (so it seems) alive.
Also, it seems that Lazarus and not Yeshua would be setting precedent in that he was raised from the dead to be with the Lord forever before Yeshua had done such. You think?

I heard that about Eliyahu and Enoch and looked into that some time ago. What I found was that they both died, Enoch at that time, and Eliyahu at least 10 years after the chariot ride.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.

This page has the list of reasons they were translated to another place, but on earth, not heaven.
WHERE are ENOCH and ELIJAH?

Lazarus, like the OT resurrections, was not raised in a perfected body. His earthly body was resurrected, and died again sometime later.

 

[yedida]

Here's some examples

From the 'OT"

The widow's son by Elijah (1 Kings 17:21-24)

The Shunammite's son by Elisha (2 Kings 4:32-35).

A man whose body had been placed in Elisha's tomb (2 Kings 13:20-21).

From the 'NT'

Lazarus by Jesus Christ (John 11:43-44).

The widow’s son by Jesus. (Luke 7:12-17)

A number of people at the moment of the death of Jesus Christ (Matthew 27:51-53)

The daughter of Jairus by Jesus (Mk 5:39-40)

Eutychus raised back to life through Paul after he fell out of a third-floor window (Acts 20:9-12).

Tabitha by Peter (Acts 9:36-43)

Been called to remembrance. Thanks.
I should have at least remembered the Shunnamite boy as there is a Southern Gospel song about it that was always one of my favorites (it's still an excellent song, for those who wish to take that trip down memory lane from years gone by:
The Isaacs - Elisha's Song aka It Is Well - YouTube )

Good info, Lulav.
And thanks to Easy and Pat, some info to chew on....ever learning.

 

[GuardianShua]

Kind of makes you wonder if those who're Jews in Judaism/don't currently trust in Yeshua (and actively choose to do so even in knowing of it) will make it to eternity with the Lord regardless due to their keeping of Torah...which would be a mini form of universalism, similar to what is said of babies who perish and how they automatically go to be with Yeshua.

45 When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy. They began to contradict what Paul was saying and heaped abuse on him. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: “‘I have made you[] a light for the Gentiles,
that you[] may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’[]”

Acts 4:12
“Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved” ()

Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin .

Galatians 2:20
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!

Galatians 3:10-11
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”
​

[/INDENT][/INDENT]Jesus told His fellow Jews that if they knew the Father, they would know Him also, and those who rejected Him rejected the Father as well (see Luke 10:16; John 5:36-47; John 9:39-41). ...and ohn wrote that “he who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life,” and that “no one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also” (1 John 5:12; 2:23). And seeing how many rejected the Messiah, it's no wonder why Paul had “great sorrow and unceasing anguish” in his heart: so many of his people were not saved (see Romans 9:2), including those whom he said were “zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge” (Romans 10:2). It was for those very people that he prayed (see Romans 10:1), “Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness” (Romans 10:3).

Apart from those who've never understood who Christ is fully (or who really don't know/never have heard), it doesn't seem that scripture gives much room for those choosing to actively reject him....

Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

I personally do not believe in a two covenant theory, but I do believe the righteous will be given a chance for life to live during the second resurrection.

 

[Yahudim]

Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

I personally do not believe in a two covenant theory, but I do believe the righteous will be given a chance for life to live during the second resurrection.

Hey Brother,

This is why I do.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

I personally do not believe in a two covenant theory, but I do believe the righteous will be given a chance for life to live during the second resurrection.

The righteous being those who trust in Yeshua alone...?

 

[Tishri1]

Wthout a resurrection the death wouldn't count for much....His death was but a part of a whole.

BTW, how has every little thing been with you lately?

yes assuming I mean his Resurrection too guys.. lol its HIM im talking about... all of Him, life, death, and resurrected life and ascension too

basically is it Torah that does it(saves you) or Yeshua?

If you had to pick which one atones for your sins what would it be?

This isnt brain sugery or rocket science here people

 

[Tishri1]

I believe the question is worded the way it is because it is being used in the upper echelons to state that we believe that we are saved by grace.. By not putting in the #3 option, she avoids the contentious part of our faith.. the evidence that we appreciate the grace given us to rise up and walk in faith..

AMEN Vis

 

[Tishri1]

I'm a little disappointed that no one commented on this part of my earlier post. No takers, huh?

 

[mishkan]

I'm a little disappointed that no one commented on this part of my earlier post. No takers, huh?

It's a nice drash. I shy away from doing algebra with Scripture, though. You know "al jibra" was invented by Moslems, right?

 

[yedida]

assuming I mean his Resurrection too guys.. lol its HIM im talking about all of Him life death and resurrected life and assent ion

basically is it Torah that does it or Yeshua

If you had to pick which one atones for your sins what would it be?

This isnt brain sugery or rocket science here people

No, it isn't rocket science. But it's more than just believing, it's not passive. That faith is evidenced by obedience - to Torah, to God's eternal commands.
It really is both. Although there does seem to be a position in Mt. 5:19 where there is entrance into the Kingdom by passive faith....??? but I don't think I want to vote for that. The Spirit says, "both."

 

[visionary]

Does anyone believe that there was no active part that Abraham had in his part of the covenant.. in fact, has there ever been a covenant that humans had no active role?

 

[yedida]

Does anyone believe that there was no active part that Abraham had in his part of the covenant.. in fact, has there ever been a covenant that humans had no active role?

Yes, the covenant of the land, or at least the actual cutting of the covenant was unilateral. Abraham was put under a deep sleep and it was Hashem who walked alone between the animal halves to seal the covenant.
All others that I'm aware of were bi-lateral, with each party having responsibilities.

 

[visionary]

Yes, the covenant of the land, or at least the actual cutting of the covenant was unilateral. Abraham was put under a deep sleep and it was Hashem who walked alone between the animal halves to seal the covenant.
All others that I'm aware of were bi-lateral, with each party having responsibilities.

Yep.. all covenants have both parties dealt responsibilities.... not one has "believe only"...covenant.. not even Abraham..

 

[yedida]

Yep.. all covenants have both parties dealt responsibilities.... not one has "believe only"...covenant.. not even Abraham..

 

[TanteBelle]

This is where I believe in a difference between 'saved' and 'salvation'. Scripture plainly says that we are SAVED by grace, through faith in Yeshua, nothing that we did to get there. However, scripture also says that our SALVATION is depended on what we do. We are judged by our works, not as to whether or not we've got Yeshua. Many who say that they believe in Yeshua will fall away. You've got to bring out works to match your words. Anyways, my two bobs put in.

 

[yedida]

This is where I believe in a difference between 'saved' and 'salvation'. Scripture plainly says that we are SAVED by grace, through faith in Yeshua, nothing that we did to get there. However, scripture also says that our SALVATION is depended on what we do. We are judged by our works, not as to whether or not we've got Yeshua. Many who say that they believe in Yeshua will fall away. You've got to bring out works to match your words. Anyways, my two bobs put in.

Pretty weighty bobs. Thanks!