Prophets or fortune tellers

[Usernametaken]

Prophet so and Mrs Cleo are beginning to sound the same these days.

 

[Usernametaken]

Before you over react, try looking at the similarities.

Both claim they are operating in a spiritual gift.

Both claim that gift is from God.

Both act like fortune tellers. One has a ball and the other a book.

Both give direction to complete strangers claiming success to them if it is followed

There is one major difference though. Fortune tellers seem a whole lot more positive

 

[tturt]

There may be other differences but a main difference between Godly and ungodly is the source and the purposes.

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;" (Eph 4:11)

One main problem is the church has done a poor job teaching and we, as believers, have not researched it for ourselves about what to do with the prophetic words once they're given. But the instructions are in Scripture.

When prophecies are given, it's just the beginning. I Thess 5:20-21 - 20 "Despise not prophesyings. The next VERSE 21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

How do we prove all things? Just like researching other Biblical topics - like when you hear a sermon on a topic you've never heard before -
-Foremost, everything has to line up with Scriptures.
-Plus here’s some scriptures that acknowledges that we need His divine help in every step we take such as Jeremiah 10:23, Psa 37:23, and Prov 3:5-6. As believers, we have the Holy Spirit.
-confirmation - an example of Biblical confirmation: Acts 9:9-19 especially v 10-12. In 2 Corinthians stresses that there will be 2-3 witnesses to confirm what’s been said (II Cor 13:1).

We have Holy Scripture, the Holy Spirit, prayer, hearing God’s voice, spiritual discernment, and confirmation to help us. Once we have proven all things (I Thess 5:21), we hold fast to that which is good.

Then in I Tim 1:18, Apostle Paul told Timothy to make good warfare over the prophetic words he had received.

 

[in1]

Christ was both a prophet a priest and king and He is in us.

 

[dbcsf]

There are two types of prophesy. The most common form is the prophet of the old testament. Those guys were mostly wound up in the prophet/king relationship. If you have a king, you need a prophet to keep him straight. These guys did not predict the future. They said what they said in order to motivate the people who heard them, mostly the king, to change. The two most common themes were: 1) stay loyal to the one and only God and 2) help the poor.

The other type of prophet is the type which predicts the future. These types are rare, and frequently apocalyptic, mostly misunderstood.

 

[hislegacy]

There are two types of prophesy. The most common form is the prophet of the old testament. Those guys were mostly wound up in the prophet/king relationship. If you have a king, you need a prophet to keep him straight. These guys did not predict the future. They said what they said in order to motivate the people who heard them, mostly the king, to change. The two most common themes were: 1) stay loyal to the one and only God and 2) help the poor.

The other type of prophet is the type which predicts the future. These types are rare, and frequently apocalyptic, mostly misunderstood.

Can you give and example of an Old Testament prophet saying help the poor. I'm not saying your wrong, just I can't find an example of it.

 

[hislegacy]

Prophet so and Mrs Cleo are beginning to sound the same these days.

That made me laugh

VS

Scary!

 

[dbcsf]

Amos 4

1 Hear this word, you cows of Bashan on Mount Samaria,
you women who oppress the poor and crush the needy
and say to your husbands, “Bring us some drinks!”

Nehemiah 5

Nehemiah Helps the Poor

1 Now the men and their wives raised a great outcry against their fellow Jews. 2 Some were saying, “We and our sons and daughters are numerous; in order for us to eat and stay alive, we must get grain.”
3 Others were saying, “We are mortgaging our fields, our vineyards and our homes to get grain during the famine.”

4 Still others were saying, “We have had to borrow money to pay the king’s tax on our fields and vineyards. 5 Although we are of the same flesh and blood as our fellow Jews and though our children are as good as theirs, yet we have to subject our sons and daughters to slavery. Some of our daughters have already been enslaved, but we are powerless, because our fields and our vineyards belong to others.”

6 When I heard their outcry and these charges, I was very angry. 7 I pondered them in my mind and then accused the nobles and officials. I told them, “You are charging your own people interest!” So I called together a large meeting to deal with them 8 and said: “As far as possible, we have bought back our fellow Jews who were sold to the Gentiles. Now you are selling your own people, only for them to be sold back to us!” They kept quiet, because they could find nothing to say.

9 So I continued, “What you are doing is not right. Shouldn’t you walk in the fear of our God to avoid the reproach of our Gentile enemies? 10 I and my brothers and my men are also lending the people money and grain. But let us stop charging interest! 11 Give back to them immediately their fields, vineyards, olive groves and houses, and also the interest you are charging them—one percent of the money, grain, new wine and olive oil.”

 

[Deba]

Can you give and example of an Old Testament prophet saying help the poor. I'm not saying your wrong, just I can't find an example of it.

Read all of Amos (with special attention to Chapter 8). Look not for what God says He is going to do, but look for why He is going to do those things. Really reveals alot about the heart of God.

 

[tturt]

One example of predicting the future from the OT, there were prophecies that told of Yeshua who would come such as in Daniel 9. In the NT, Ananias was told what kind of future Yahweh wanted for Paul (Acts 9).

 

[branchofthevine]

A prophet did more than just prophesy the future, and even when they did, there was not always a certainty of what they predicted coming true.

A prophet was one who always called for justice and righteousness among the people of the land.

Social justice was huge for the Israelite Prophet, and should be for the Christian.
They lived on daily bread, no prophet was wealthy or desires wealth or honour, but stood up and called a spade a spade, they did not shy away from bringing up sin of the people.

 

[dbcsf]

Very true

 

[in1]

Jesus saw Himself as the fulfillment of all things not only in all of creation but through the whole scripture as well and knew He was returning back to The Glory of One. A mind equal with God. The the prayer he prayed for us, that we might be one, was a prayer finished before the foundation of the earth. This is the Spirit of prophecy, the testimony of Jesus Christ. I am He who Is, who Was, and who is to Come.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Prophet so and Mrs Cleo are beginning to sound the same these days.

The true prophetic has to agree totally with the teaching of Scripture - not through isolated verses, but as threads that run through the Old and New Testaments. Not only does true prophecy has to be totally consistent with the wording of Scripture, but it has to come using the method that is modelled by Scripture. In other words, it is what is said, and how it is said as well.

We also have to look at the Scripture to see why the prophecies were given. What was the purpose of Old Testament prophecies? What is the purpose of New Testament prophecy?

For example: Most Old Testament prophecy was given to exhort Israel to forsake their idols and came back to the Lord. The prophets themselves certainly were not the subject of hero worship according Stephen. He said that they persecuted and killed the prophets while they were still alive.

New Testament prophecy was for the building up of the Church, and the purpose was to increase dependence on Christ.

Many of our contemporary "prophets" are subject to hero worship, and after reading their books on the prophetic, I notice that there is a lot of self promotion in the stories they tell about the prophecies they have given. I don't see any of that either in the Old or the New Testaments.

Leads me to think that 90% of prophecies that are given around the place might not come from the Holy Spirit at all, but have come just from the minds of the "prophets" in order to lead the Church in the way they are thinking.

What I see in the work of the Holy Spirit is that He leads us back to the Scriptures every time, and he does not give glory to any man other than Jesus.

Notwithstanding that, I have read books by some really good prophetic men and women, and I have been well taught by these humble servants whose primary purpose for writing is to glorify Jesus and to train people well in the prophetic.

I guess it's a matter of picking the meat from the bones...

 

[tturt]

90% or more of the ones I hear come true and I'm expecting the others to come true later.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

90% or more of the ones I hear come true.

Coming true is not a reliable indicator that the prophecy is really of the Holy Spirit. The "prophecies" of many psychics have also come true. As I keep saying, the main indicator is the written Scriptures. What is missed sometimes is that it was the Holy Spirit who wrote the Scriptures, so He knows how to give prophecies that are totally consistent with them. Good prophecy is the Holy Spirit applying the Scripture directly to a specific person or group in such a way that they are comforted, encouraged, exhorted or built up.

 

[tturt]

Two main differences between Godly prophets and psychics is source and purposes.

As far as looking at prophetic words and determining if they're really from The Holy Spirit, one example is Yahweh didn't let any of Samuel's words fall to the ground and all Israel knew that he had been established as a prophet (I Sam 3:19-20). Yahweh can tell us through prophets about our daily affairs and what is in our future. One short range example was when Samuel told Saul where the donkeys were (I sam 9:20) and a long range prophetic word was when Samuel anointed David to be king (I Sam 16:1). Exhortation can mean to instruct as Agabus was told there would be a famine and they provided for others with food. They accepted what was said and acted on it, then it comforted them (Acts 11). Today prophetic words have to given under the umbrella of love.

However, we can't expect prophetic words to be 100% correct. No more than we can expect sermons or teachings to be correct 100%. Of course, some study Scriptures, pray, etc.

Though prophets are responsible for what's said, the folks being spoken to also have responsibilities. We've done a poor job of explaining what's to be done with prophetic words. We're told to - I Thess 5:21 - "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." We have The Holy Spirit, Holy Scripture, prayer, hearing God’s voice, spiritual discernment, wise Godly counsel and confirmation to help us. Once we have proven all things (I Thess 5:21), we're to hold fast to that which is good and Apostle Paul told Timothy to make good warfare over the prophetic words he had received (I Tim 1:18).

 

[Faulty]

However, we can't expect prophetic words to be 100% correct. No more than we can expect sermons or teachings to be correct 100%. Of course, some study Scriptures, pray, etc.

Those two aren't the same things. A sermon or teaching comes from personal studying of the scriptures. There is room for error.

A prophecy, supposedly comes directly from God, through the individual, and not from the individual as a sermon does. If it is coming from the individual, it's not a prophecy, it's a guess.

Today's prophetic movement expects us to be gullible enough to believe that when in the OT, God came upon the prophets and they spoke without error, but today, the Spirit doesn't come upon us, but rather dwells inside us, and that produces a margin of allowable error.

So, by logical extension, the closer we are to the god giving these prophecies, they more we find him unable to deliver a clear message and spawn confusion and errors, but I don't belong to a God of confusion and error.

Time and again, when God is speaking to the prophets, we are delivered those words verbatim in quotation marks. There is never one who says, "I think told me to say this".

 

[tturt]

Listening to a pastor recently and he had prayed for someone to be healed but they weren't healed until the next day. So he asks Yahweh - why? He said when I healed his blindness, I didn't want your face to be the first thing he saw. hehehehe Yahweh tries to help us with our pride. The pastor, teacher, apostle, missionary, etc. are lead by The Holy Spirit as well as prophets - and all believers. No one is 100% correct no matter which part of the body they function.

Yahweh expects us to be gullible enough to believe He has spoken and still speaks. Sometimes He uses us imperfect as we are and just as He always has. Ever wonder why He just doesn't give the sermons audibly, physically help the poor, etc. then it would be done perfectly? Why doesn't everyone have a Damarcus Road experience?

 

[Tobias]

Deut 18:
21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.


I think many have taken this particular verse out of context, and developed erroneous doctrines concerning the accuracy of prophecy. But if we compare it with many of the other passages of scripture that show examples of actual prophecy in action, we can see that word for word strict accuracy that stands the test of the ages is not always the case!

Examples we've discussed repeatedly:

1. Jonah's entire career as a prophet to Nineveh was "false".
2. Nathan as a prophet told David to go ahead and build the temple. Later God told him the opposite.
3. Hezekiah moved the heart of God and nullified the entire word of prophecy he had just heard.


Word for word strict accuracy is not something we see with today's prophets. I believe with a careful reading of scripture, we can also see that it didn't necessarily take place in the Bible either! The verse quoted above can then be seen to apply to signs and wonders predicted by a prophet, such as rain in the case with Elijah, and the sun moving back ten steps when Hezekiah asked for a sign as proof. If these didn't come to pass, then the words spoken would have been discarded. But many prophecies do not have time limits, or are not meant to happen for hundreds of years. So word-for-word accuracy is not a very efficient means of testing a prophet!