It is ethically wrong and immoral to persecute 'gays'

[Davidjayjordan]

This is common sense, and we have discussed how we should not force sexual orientation on this sub board, but lets be more straight forward and get down to the basics of why most church systems degrade gays as the most vile people on Earth. (Not all I said 'most'). Lets discuss what really happenned at Sodom, and lets discuss what atitude makes Sodomites today. Lets discuss, Jesus and what He said about those that call others RACCA.

Let the discussions begin.....

 

[Davidjayjordan]

You don't need to be a Christian to regard homosexuality as immoral or unnatural.

I make a great distinction between Christians and church people, which takes discernment in my opinion.

Christians I would suggest are not anti-gay, whereas I would suggest as I am here that church systems are anti-gay because they have a controlled population of basically heterosexuals, that they control via their laws and intimidations.

So do note the difference, and YES all kinds of religions, atheists evolutionists, and all kinds of religions can be anti gay lesbian bi etc....

But this thread is talking about church anti-gayness compared to Christian pro choice concerning orientations.

 

[yasic]

You don't need to be a Christian to regard homosexuality as immoral or unnatural.

Nor do you need to be a mormon to view Black people as sub-human.

Religion is not a pre-requisite for bigotry, but it certainly does help.



EDIT: Although it does seem to require a lack of access to the dictionary as it still baffles me what type of definition of 'unnatural' you guys are using that could be applied to homosexuality.

 

[mathclub]

re-read that thread title again.

how on earth can you even be asking that question?

seriously....

 

[Exiledoomsayer]

In before the thousands of cases of homosexuality found in animals.
Seriously I cant believe some people are still ignorant enough to use that claim.

 

[fenix144]

In before the thousands of cases of homosexuality found in animals.
Seriously I cant believe some people are still ignorant enough to use that claim.

Seconded -____________-

 

[ryeaber]

This is common sense, and we have discussed how we should not force sexual orientation on this sub board, but lets be more straight forward and get down to the basics of why most church systems degrade gays as the most vile people on Earth. (Not all I said 'most'). Lets discuss what really happenned at Sodom, and lets discuss what atitude makes Sodomites today. Lets discuss, Jesus and what He said about those that call others RACCA.

Let the discussions begin.....

Its because the the bible uses the word תּוֹעֵבָה (to-eh-va) to describe homosexuality in two places.

First in Leviticus 18:22
וְאֶת-זָכָר—לֹא תִשְׁכַּב, מִשְׁכְּבֵי אִשָּׁה: תּוֹעֵבָה, הִוא.
(Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.)


and again in Leviticus 20:13
וְאִישׁ, אֲשֶׁר יִשְׁכַּב אֶת-זָכָר מִשְׁכְּבֵי אִשָּׁה—תּוֹעֵבָה עָשׂוּ, שְׁנֵיהֶם; מוֹת יוּמָתוּ, דְּמֵיהֶם בָּם.
(If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.)


The problem is that the word תּוֹעֵבָה is used a number of times, and in no other instance of the word, does Christianity revile the activity as much.


for example
Proverbs 6:16-6:19
שֶׁשׁ-הֵנָּה, שָׂנֵא יְהוָה; וְשֶׁבַע, תועבות (תּוֹעֲבַת) נַפְשׁוֹ. עֵינַיִם רָמוֹת, לְשׁוֹן שָׁקֶר; וְיָדַיִם, שֹׁפְכוֹת דָּם-נָקִילֵ. ב--חֹרֵשׁ, מַחְשְׁבוֹת אָוֶן;רַגְלַיִם מְמַהֲרוֹת, לָרוּץ לָרָעָהיָפִיחַ כְּזָבִים, עֵד שָׁקֶר;וּמְשַׁלֵּחַ מְדָנִים, בֵּין אַחִים.
(There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.)

Same word - yet you don't see the same revulsion (for lack of a better word) towards liars that you see towards homosexuals. Some religeous people try to justify this with out of context statistics of health issues, or how it's "unnatural", but it all goes back to the bible.


Good luch keeping this thread open, btw. I don't think threads like this are allowed.

 

[thegospelisgoodnews]

Whats wrong! is offering them a way of salvation, yet leaving them still bound to the deception and delusion of what they are experiencing. Thats not the freedom in Jesus, that Christ was refering to, much like leading a drunk to Christ and leaving him still addicted and completely bound to alcohol, good luck fella! hope to see you in heaven, hope you can get free from alcohol.........WOW! what gospel we have these days, actually its much worse, not only do they not offer anyone a way to get free, they acknowledge to these folks they don't even have to overcome their sinful behaviors and don't need to change anything, the drunk can remain a drunk, the liar can keep lying, and if your sexually immoral you don't need to change that either........yet when you get to the end of the story, you find Jesus telling christians to depart from him, "you who practice lawlessness"......It seems there appears to be some rules, maybe some of these were given by the apostle Paul, of people who practice certain sins, will not inherit salvation as they are told they will today. Can I love God and love my nieghbor, and make love to my neighbors wife unrepentantly, and still expect to enter the kingdom of God..........Its a free gift salvation, for those who abide in Christ

 

[Jase]

Disease, serious health risks etc that are involved and the fact is is contrary to natural sexual reproduction.

Gays have no more diseases than heterosexuals. In fact, 75% of the world's HIV/AIDS cases are among black heterosexuals.

Homosexuality is not observed in the animal kingdom.

Yes, actually it's been observed in about 1500 animal species, primarily the social animals. It's prevalent throughout the animal kingdom.

Homosexuality is a very unhealthy lifestyle.

It's not a lifestyle and is not anymore unhealthy than heterosexuality.

According to longevity stats, on average they die 20 -30 years younger than heterosexuals.

100% disproved myth. Who told you that, the lying anti-gay fraud Paul Cameron?


I can't believe people still believe this nonsense.

 

[Jase]

And since the gay bashing has begun, I give this thread a day before it's shut down. I'm disgusted at how much ignorance is still prevalent in society.

 

[Exiledoomsayer]

And since the gay bashing has begun, I give this thread a day before it's shut down. I'm disgusted at how much ignorance is still prevalent in society.

I'm holding a silent hope the first one was a poe.
But really I guess your right.

 

[jayem]

This is common sense, and we have discussed how we should not force sexual orientation on this sub board, but lets be more straight forward and get down to the basics of why most church systems degrade gays as the most vile people on Earth.
Let the discussions begin.....

This is why: Homosexuality has existed for as long as our species has existed. In that sense, it is a natural variation in the sexual behavior of Homo sapiens. It was probably a common practice among some of the tribes living nearby (and in competition with) the ancient Hebrews. In order to maintain their separate identity, homosexuality became a taboo in Hebrew society, and this was codified in scripture by the OT writers. (A central recurring theme of the OT is that the Hebrews are chosen by God as the people of his covenant, and they must keep their separateness. They especially must never engage in the unholy practices of the pagan nations around them.) Thus, homosexuality became an abomination for devout Jews. Which Paul, a strict Jewish Pharisee, brought over into Christianity. And when Christianity became the prevailing religion in Europe, the homosexuality taboo became part of Western culture.

So tribalism is the basis for why homosexuality is seen as vile.

 

[thegospelisgoodnews]

And since the gay bashing has begun, I give this thread a day before it's shut down. I'm disgusted at how much ignorance is still prevalent in society.

I been reading all the post, I don't know where your getting the notion of "gay bashing" you seem to have a victim mentality, nobody has bashed anyone, are you considering I'm bashing drunks, if I said the bible says the drunkard will not inherit salvation, and am I bashing liars when I say the bible says no liars will inherit the kingdom of God. If you consider that bashing, I don't, I consider it just speaking what the bible clearly says

 

[Davidjayjordan]

And since the gay bashing has begun, I give this thread a day before it's shut down. I'm disgusted at how much ignorance is still prevalent in society.

Yes, this thread is not about gay bashing but just the opposite, gay acceptance, and so as such it should not be shut down just because we are trying to Christioan educate and commpon sense educate.

The bashers should not be able to shut down a good ethical im[ortant thread.

I repeat the bashers should be shiut down but not this thread if it cam to that.

 

[Davidjayjordan]

Biologically the Lord created life and that means all orientations of life.

Biologicallt what is on the outside is not necessri;ly on the inside. Gender determination can NOT always be made at birth. The individual only knows when he or she is able to decide on their own. The parents or doctors are not gods and can not decide for them. Social pressure should not decide. Individuals should decide for themselves. A;ll firce is unethical and unChristian.

 

[Davidjayjordan]

I been reading all the post, I don't know where your getting the notion of "gay bashing" you seem to have a victim mentality, nobody has bashed anyone, are you considering I'm bashing drunks, if I said the bible says the drunkard will not inherit salvation, and am I bashing liars when I say the bible says no liars will inherit the kingdom of God. If you consider that bashing, I don't, I consider it just speaking what the bible clearly says

Actually drunks can easily make it into the gates of heaven, any sobreity gets in, it all depends on whether they accepted the Lord and whether they had love and accepted His LOVE.

Beggars, drunks, harlots, and all orientations can make it in, but most church people worship their own self righteousness rather than HIS Righteousness of the heart.

Ahh and so we are getting to the crunch of why church people who think they are righteous despise and condemn gays as they think they, the church people are righeous and the gays are unrighteous.

But the Lord says all are unrighteous, meaning all.

 

[Davidjayjordan]

I repeat this is not an emflamatory thread, it is an anti-enflamatory thread to prevent inflamatory persecutions against our brethren the gays and lesbians, and bis and trans and all people everywhere, for lack of love is enflamatory and this thread is about extending love to all...and hoping all will be accepted and spread further love and acceptance as Jesus asked us to do.

 

[Davidjayjordan]

Loving church people love gays and all. God bless them !!!!!!

Loving atheists love gays and all. God bless them

Loving evolutionists love gays. God bless them.

 

[ryeaber]

Loving church people love gays and all. God bless them !!!!!!

Loving atheists love gays and all. God bless them

Loving evolutionists love gays. God bless them.

Loving evolutionists love gays, but not all?

 

[Davidjayjordan]

But God is love and so in heart and soul if they love, they are of God. For He is the more than just the Creator of LOVE but LOVE ITSELF.

The Sodomites did not have love, but had nationalistic pride and therefore hatred for others. They perseciuted and abused and even killed strangers. This was their sin.