Evidence vs. Believe (A Tale of Two Bunnies)

[Jazer]

Christians are willing to accept that the Genesis creation story is incorrect

The only think that is not correct is your understanding of Genesis. The reference is to the lights in the firmament. What we see in the sky. The reference is not to the creation of the stars themselves.

To me its a story about creation and the beginning of things through the eyes of people of that day.

Yes, you have to look at the perspective that the Bible was written from. Also there is a message for us today. Otherwise there would be no reason for the information to be in the Bible if the Bible did not pertain to us today in the time that we live.

enough there to see that the earth is not 6,000 years

The generations do seem to be accurate that Bible Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden 6,000 years ago. ALL and I do mean ALL of the scientific evidence points to this as being true. Even the evidence we find in our DNA in every cell of our body. Now they are telling us that every cell in our body has the history of the universe. It is amazing all that God has given us in the fossil record, the DNA, the ruins that archaeology finds and all the other ways we are able to understand the world and the universe that we live in. Now they are telling us that we would not be alive if a star had not died. We are made of elements that bonded together inside of a star.

 

[SkyWriting]

Duck

I get it.
The duck is a bird like a Finch and the puzzle pieces are the various books in the Bible.
I like it.

 

[rikerjoe]

The generations do seem to be accurate that Bible Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden 6,000 years ago. ALL and I do mean ALL of the scientific evidence points to this as being true. Even the evidence we find in our DNA in every cell of our body.

Which eveidance would that be? Got any links to show it?

Now they are telling us that every cell in our body has the history of the universe.

Who are "they"?

Now they are telling us that we would not be alive if a star had not died. We are made of elements that bonded together inside of a star.

This is true, all elements were created in stars and the elements spread when the stars died.. How does this jive with your first point above?

 

[Tiberius]

17And the LORD said to Moses, “I will do the very thing you have asked, because I am pleased with you and I know you by name.”

18Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”

19And the LORD said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”

21Then the LORD said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”

Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

Deuteronomy 34:10
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face.

 

[Reine]

I like your signature:
If you think you have the Truth, test it. If it keeps working then you've found it. If it fails your test, start again. This is science.

That's what I do to test truth's that I learn about God

 

[razeontherock]

Yah I already told him that. He didn't get it, but like G-d, we'll keep trying; bound to get it sooner or later ...

 

[Tiberius]

I like your signature:
If you think you have the Truth, test it. If it keeps working then you've found it. If it fails your test, start again. This is science.

That's what I do to test truth's that I learn about God

And how do you test a truth about God?

 

[Reine]

You know Raze... I think you apply objectivity to subjective truths... and test them like I do. Most people are not like that, so we are basically not understood. I see you have a lot of qualities that I do, and it woulnd't surprise me if you are an INFJ like me. They are used to people who have blind faith, but really don't understand their own faith. They try to 'push' it onto others, yet they make no rational sense. However, I agree when you say 'Keep trying, they are bound to get it sooner or later.' I think that is actually very true

 

[Reine]

And how do you test a truth about God?

You think of something that is a subjective truth that you think God would agree with... or that something you believe to be true about the nature of God would lead to a certain type of action. Then you make the decision to live as one who believes this concept to be true. You then measure it's results with it's success rate.

 

[razeontherock]

Yup That's what it means, "the just shall live by Faith." That's what Abraham did. Here's a very interesting quote, spoken repeatedly by Isaac and Jacob, that was part of my tagline for some time:

"this day I will know the Lord, and walk in His ways, and keep His commandments, even as Abraham did."

 

[Tiberius]

You think of something that is a subjective truth that you think God would agree with... or that something you believe to be true about the nature of God would lead to a certain type of action. Then you make the decision to live as one who believes this concept to be true. You then measure it's results with it's success rate.

Oh goody! Let's try it!

A subjective truth that God would agree with, or something that I think is true about the nature of God that would lead to a certain type of action? let's go with burglary. I think that God would not like people who rob the homes of others.

Then we live as though we believe this concept to be true. So let's live as though we think theft is okay. Luckily, we don't need to do this, because there are lots of people who do live like this and we can look at them instead of having to do it ourselves.

There are many home burglaries that go unsolved, and yet there are cases of burglars being shot and killed by the home owners. Wow, what do we do with such wildly different results?

What do the results tell you about what God thinks of robbing people's homes?

You see, the problem with this is that you are looking at what happens to you to figure out what God thinks of it, when your experiences are statistically insignificant in the real world. If you decide to see if vegetarianism is wrong, so you become a vegetarian for a little while and you get bad stomach aches, does that mean that all vegetarians are wrong and will be punished by God? After all, they have tried vegetarianism and it works fine! So why would God say it is bad for you, but okay for other people?

And do you really risk bringing the wrath of God down upon you to find out if it's okay? I mean, isn't that a bit like finding out if a liquid is poisonous by drinking it and seeing if you die?

 

[razeontherock]

In other words, you haven't tried it. And if your logic on display here is any indication, there might be good reasons why you haven't tried it. You might need to put a little more effort into designing a test ...

 

[driewerf]

You're not going to be able to listen to my reasons for knowing the Truth. If you want to understand why not, perhaps the quickest way would be to google something called "beautific vision." I can't give that to you!

What is squarely in my domain, is to give reasons for the Hope that is within me; quite a big difference, eh? (And those details are not pertinent to this thread)

G-d is not above being scrutinized; He stands up to that very well.

I'm not talking to god, I'm talking to you. The matter is, can your answers suffer a close scrutiny? Until now I have only seen evasions, attempts not to answer. So, I presume I can take this claim with more than a grain of salt:

The Christian Faith is 100% rational.

 

[grahamsnumber]

You guys have no clue how God operates, yet you think you can portray Him in a portrait well enough to make a counter-portrait.

The problem is that if you look out into the world without any preconceived ideas at all, no knowledge of Christianity, or Islam, or Hinduism, or Buddhism, or anything else, and you just innocently want to know how things work, then you'll want to start experimenting. And what you'll find is that if the universe was indeed created recently, then it very much doesn't look like it was. The innocent mind (innocent, that is, of separate religious or scientific ideas) will come to think that the world is very old. That doesn't prove that it is, only that it really looks like it is. So the question seems to be why God made it look so much different than the Christian story.

 

[driewerf]

Ok, ... I would like you to read only the gospels, and make an outline of the concepts that you see being brought out. Reason: To decide if they have any personal value for you.

No no no. You 'll have to give me a reason to start it, a reason I can can judge it worth to spent share some time for it.

then I would also like you to really listen to what Jesus said, and notice his sarcasm. Reason: Because it is fun and will make you laugh.

So I have to read the bible just for the lulz?

 

[razeontherock]

So, I presume

Presumptions, assumptions, it's all the same thing; BAD. Just like your assumption that the Christian story necessarily says the world is not old.

 

[razeontherock]

No no no. You 'll have to give me a reason to start it, a reason I can can judge it worth to spent share some time for it.


So I have to read the bible just for the lulz?

If you want to go forming opinions, you should gather info first.

 

[driewerf]

If you want to go forming opinions, you should gather info first.

Indeed, and I asked you first to provide it. You declined the offer. Reine promessed to try, but failed until now. So, go to the closest mirror, and see the reason why I still don't have the necessary info.

 

[AV1611VET]

So the question seems to be why God made it look so much different than the Christian story.

Try putting yourself in Adam's place and see if your objection holds water.

You're looking at fully-grown trees, ripe with fruit -- not to mention full-grown animals walking and flying around.

God tells you those trees came into existence just hours before you did.

What would your reply be?

 

[No Time]

So the question seems to be why God made it look so much different than the Christian story.

Try putting yourself in Adam's place and see if your objection holds water.

You're looking at fully-grown trees, ripe with fruit -- not to mention full-grown animals walking and flying around.

God tells you those trees came into existence just hours before you did.

What would your reply be?

Again NO ANSWER, why do you answer a question by asking a question? is it because you don't have an answer?
we know it's what you have been trained to do AV1611VET but please just once in your life try and answer a question.