Bachmann's Scientific Illiteracy.

Nathan Poe

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MachZer0

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If HIV were as virulent as diseases like measles, chicken pox, smallpox or polio, it would should absolutely apply to principals who allow HIV positive students in school.
Is it as virulent as HPV, which is what we're talking about
:wave:
No child going to public school right now has had a smallpox vaccine. Would you be concerned if your child or grandchild were going to school with someone who had an active case of smallpox?
And of course this discussion is about a sexually transmitted virus. Perhaps you misunderstood that
 
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MachZer0

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High school kids tend to have sex. Perhaps you misunderstood that.
The state shouldn't be in the business of protecting kids from their own behaviors. Perhaps you misunderstood that
 
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Drekkan85

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The state shouldn't be in the business of protecting kids from their own behaviors. Perhaps you misunderstood that

But it's not just their own behaviours. Examples have already been given, but for simplicities sake, reproduced below:

Boy A is the local playboy at his highschool. He sleeps around... a LOT. He gets HPV, but doesn't realize because in men there can be, and frequently aren't, any visible symptoms.

A goes off to college and gets saved. He changes his life. Commits to no sex before marriage. Is chaste and good. Builds a reputation within his new home (he changes states from say Godless California to Virginia).

At 30 he meets Girl B - the love of his life. She's an Evangelical Christian and has never had sexual contact with anyone else in her life. She's saved herself for marriage. They fall in love, get married. They build a family. Whoops, turns out she gets cervical cancer from A's HPV and dies leaving her children motherless.

What behaviour is B being punished for? What behaviour can she have changed?
 
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JBJoe

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Is it as virulent as HPV, which is what we're talking about
:wave:

First off, no it isn't as virulent as HPV. HPV is substantially more virulent. Second, you failed to pay attention to the thread, follow back far enough until you get here:

Ok what measures do you consider to be strongly encouraging? I mean as it is now with other vaccines, no one says you absolutely have to have them, but you can't, for example, go to public schools without them.

Emphasis added.

And of course this discussion is about a sexually transmitted virus. Perhaps you misunderstood that

The OP in this case is about Bachmann's Scientific Illiteracy with HPV as a specific example. If we go to the post you responded to:

In a world where any disease on the planet is only an international planeflight away, this is serious business!


It's pretty obvious we are not talking about a sexually transmitted disease. That level of virulence is not associated with HPV or HIV.
:wave:
 
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MachZer0

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But it's not just their own behaviours. Examples have already been given, but for simplicities sake, reproduced below:

Boy A is the local playboy at his highschool. He sleeps around... a LOT. He gets HPV, but doesn't realize because in men there can be, and frequently aren't, any visible symptoms.

A goes off to college and gets saved. He changes his life. Commits to no sex before marriage. Is chaste and good. Builds a reputation within his new home (he changes states from say Godless California to Virginia).

At 30 he meets Girl B - the love of his life. She's an Evangelical Christian and has never had sexual contact with anyone else in her life. She's saved herself for marriage. They fall in love, get married. They build a family. Whoops, turns out she gets cervical cancer from A's HPV and dies leaving her children motherless.

What behaviour is B being punished for? What behaviour can she have changed?
I'm not sure why that becomes a problem for the state. Boy A chose to engage in risky behavior and girl B did the same by marrying him. How does that become a problem for the state?
 
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Blayz

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I'm not sure why that becomes a problem for the state. Boy A chose to engage in risky behavior and girl B did the same by marrying him. How does that become a problem for the state?

Ahh yes, the morality approach to disease treatment. Weclome to MachZer0's Death Panel, where treatment of the disease is dependent on how you contracted it.
 
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MachZer0

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First off, no it isn't as virulent as HPV. HPV is substantially more virulent. Second, you failed to pay attention to the thread, follow back far enough until you get here:



Emphasis added.
As in many threads, that there are different branches of discussions. that really has nothing to do with my post. But just so I understand, you're perfectly willing to allow students with HIV in school, but not those with HPV. I fail to see the logic in that.



The OP in this case is about Bachmann's Scientific Illiteracy with HPV as a specific example.
Really? I saw nothing of a scientific nature in her comments
If we go to the post you responded to:

[/b]

It's pretty obvious we are not talking about a sexually transmitted disease. That level of virulence is not associated with HPV or HIV.
:wave:
So you're saying that HPV is not sexually transmitted. it sure is difficult to follow your point here.
 
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MachZer0

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Ahh yes, the morality approach to disease treatment. Weclome to MachZer0's Death Panel, where treatment of the disease is dependent on how you contracted it.
I don't recall bringing morality into it. It's a matter of behaving responsibly. If you want to take risks, you should accept the responsibility that goes along with the risks.
 
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variant

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I'm not sure why that becomes a problem for the state. Boy A chose to engage in risky behavior and girl B did the same by marrying him. How does that become a problem for the state?

Are you saying that the state should take no interest in helping people?

Why exactly?
 
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variant

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I'm saying the state shouldn't make it's self responsible for the bad choices people make.

A valid point of view, but why would a state not want to reduce the number of preventable diseases if it doesn’t encroach on some greater freedom?

If the state can reduce the amount of HPV, HIV, measles, smallpox, hepatitis or anything else without greatly encroaching on peoples freedoms it seems that that should be at least considered.

Perry is getting a pretty raw deal on this one.

It’s also fairly irresponsible for Bachman to be spreading anti vaccination rhetoric, it’s bad enough already.
 
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Incariol

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I'm saying the state shouldn't make it's self responsible for the bad choices people make.

So what about the Kingdom of Heaven? You think Jesus acts unethically in choosing to save you from Hellfire from your own bad choices?
 
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JBJoe

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As in many threads, that there are different branches of discussions. that really has nothing to do with my post. But just so I understand, you're perfectly willing to allow students with HIV in school, but not those with HPV. I fail to see the logic in that.

Yes, but you specifically responded to a branch of the thread talking about highly contagious diseases "only a planeflight away" and then converted it to something else to fit your rhetoric. Nobody is talking about keeping students with HPV out of school. STDs are not a plane flight away, you have to have sex with an infected person on the far end of that flight.


Really? I saw nothing of a scientific nature in her commentsSo you're saying that HPV is not sexually transmitted. it sure is difficult to follow your point here.

If you use Google you can look up the definition of some of these words that I use. Just because HPV and HIV are both sexually transmitted does not mean they have the same virulence. It is considerably more difficult to transmit HIV via penile-vaginal intercourse than HPV.
 
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JBJoe

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I don't recall bringing morality into it. It's a matter of behaving responsibly. If you want to take risks, you should accept the responsibility that goes along with the risks.

Oh look, we've come full circle to an issue you've repeatedly ignored.

A woman can act completely in accordance with scripture and still contract HPV and die of cervical cancer.

Is acting in accordance with scripture a risk she is taking? Is it your suggestion that she not do so?
 
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MachZer0

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A valid point of view, but why would a state not want to reduce the number of preventable diseases if it doesn’t encroach on some greater freedom?

If the state can reduce the amount of HPV, HIV, measles, smallpox, hepatitis or anything else without greatly encroaching on peoples freedoms it seems that that should be at least considered.

Perry is getting a pretty raw deal on this one.

It’s also fairly irresponsible for Bachman to be spreading anti vaccination rhetoric, it’s bad enough already.
Measles, smallpox are not caused by risky behaviors, so the comparison fails. If you engage in risky behavior, you should accept the risks yourself
 
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MachZer0

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So what about the Kingdom of Heaven? You think Jesus acts unethically in choosing to save you from Hellfire from your own bad choices?
Jesus is not the state, and the state is not the Savior. :wave:
 
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MachZer0

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If you use Google you can look up the definition of some of these words that I use. Just because HPV and HIV are both sexually transmitted does not mean they have the same virulence. It is considerably more difficult to transmit HIV via penile-vaginal intercourse than HPV.
And what does that have to do regarding Bachmann who did not demonstrate ant scientific illiteracy as claimed.
 
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MachZer0

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Oh look, we've come full circle to an issue you've repeatedly ignored.

A woman can act completely in accordance with scripture and still contract HPV and die of cervical cancer.

Is acting in accordance with scripture a risk she is taking? Is it your suggestion that she not do so?
It seems to me that the woman in the scenario made a bad choice for a husband. I don't see what that has to do with Scripture.
 
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