A Parable about Age

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AV1611VET

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No, that is not correct and its also impossible even if we would entertain the notion that god exists and is omnipotent.
Then what's the difference between God creating -- say -- raisin bread, with the raisins older than the bread itself; and God creating raisin bread with the raisins and the bread the same age?

:idea: -- (Nevermind, I think I'll make that into a challenge thread.)
 
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AV1611VET

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You take whatever age scientists have legitimately assigned to something and say "that's the age that God embedded in it". Is it possible that the creation event was yesterday, and everything up until then was embedded?

Embedded age explains nothing, cannot be verified, and is thus useless. Why is it so hard for you believe that maybe God actually let the universe play out those 13.7 billion years leading up to existence of man? Or does that hurt your ego too much?
I know exactly how it feels.

I'm already being accused of being Last Thursday.

Take a number and get in line.
 
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VirOptimus

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Then what's the difference between God creating -- say -- raisin bread, with the raisins older than the bread itself; and God creating raisin bread with the raisins and the bread the same age?

:idea: -- (Nevermind, I think I'll make that into a challenge thread.)

He/she/it cant do that either.
 
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Nathan Poe

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I agree.

We're not just talking the earth looking like it is 4.57 billion years old -- it is 4.57 billion years old.

But an object that is a year old, but created 1 second ago, is a year old.

No, it's 1 second old.

Embedded Age does not 'accomplish' anything

Finally you say something intellectually honest.

-- it is simply a state of existence, having maturity without a history.

In other words, it's a deception with a false history.
 
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Lion Hearted Man

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I know exactly how it feels.

I'm already being accused of being Last Thursday.

Take a number and get in line.

Deflect all you want, but my point remains: embedded age is a useless concept. Why not believe that God actually played out the 13.7 billion years before man arrived? Does everything in the universe have to be that anthropocentric?
 
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Nathan Poe

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Deflect all you want, but my point remains: embedded age is a useless concept. Why not believe that God actually played out the 13.7 billion years before man arrived? Does everything in the universe have to be that anthropocentric?

If creationist can't believe that they are the moost important thing in the universe, then entire foundation for Creationism crumbles.
 
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AV1611VET

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Why not believe that God actually played out the 13.7 billion years before man arrived?
Now you want me to be a TE?

You're desperate that I accept Big Bang w/evolution, aren't you?
 
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FrenchyBearpaw

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I wasn't aware YECs believe the earth is 4.57 billion years old.
Stop lying to yourself, you'll sleep better. You only believe 'embedded' age because it allows you to marry what you know is real to that which is not. Why not just give up the fantasy, and accept things for what they are. You already accept the methods that date our universe and earth, now just go one step further. You'll be happy you did!
 
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Nathan Poe

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Frenchy, what exactly is it you're promoting here? And it sure looks like you're trying to persuade someone away from their Christian Faith by mocking them for it. Of course that can't be what it is, considering we have rules against that and all.

Only if you consider what AV's peddling to be "Christian Faith."

Considering that even Christians are calling him out on its flaws, perhaps they know something he doesn't.
 
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Split Rock

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Unpossible.

Nothing is impossible for your god... or so I have been told. But, if it is a logical contradiction, then please explain how exactly. I still haven't heard from AVET or anyone else how God actually "embeds" age, or what that really means in a practical sense. All AVET has come up with is old parts used to make a new bike, but he isn't suggesting that was the case with Adam, so even that analogy fails.
 
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Nathan Poe

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Nothing is impossible for your god... or so I have been told. But, if it is a logical contradiction, then please explain how exactly. I still haven't heard from AVET or anyone else how God actually "embeds" age, or what that really means in a practical sense. All AVET has come up with is old parts used to make a new bike, but he isn't suggesting that was the case with Adam, so even that analogy fails.

Furthermore, there's nothing in "embedded age" which is consistent with any of God's actions anywhere in the Bible -- it's purely a fantasy of the embedded agers.
 
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razeontherock

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Only if you consider what AV's peddling to be "Christian Faith."

AV really isn't peddling anything. He's pointing out a particular view, which is only one of many that reconciles Biblical Faith with science. His Biblical Faith is actually quite sound; how that may relate to science (or not) isn't an "article of Faith" at all, as defined by any sort of unified stance within Christianity. The 2 are separate issues, and for all your own pontifications on this site one might expect you to be intelligent enough to recognize that.
 
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Nathan Poe

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AV really isn't peddling anything. He's pointing out a particular view, which is only one of many that reconciles Biblical Faith with science.

Biblical faith -- but not faith in God.

Those are two separate issues, and for all your own pontifications on this site one might expect you to be intelligent enough to recognize that...or not.
 
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razeontherock

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Nothing is impossible for your god... or so I have been told. But, if it is a logical contradiction, then please explain how exactly. I still haven't heard from AVET or anyone else how God actually "embeds" age, or what that really means in a practical sense. All AVET has come up with is old parts used to make a new bike, but he isn't suggesting that was the case with Adam, so even that analogy fails.

What you're suggesting is that in the story, Adam was created mature, but was only one second old; a newborn. A mature newborn. And then you're telling yourself that's not a logical contradiction. You yourself should be backing away slowly from such a position!

AV has shown many examples that demonstrate the concept of "embedded age" in a practical sense. I'd be truly surprised if you've read even a few of them and fail to grasp the concept. (Do note that understanding the point is entirely distinct from thinking that's the way reality is, but with these illustrations one need not ask why God might do such a thing, as Adam is a good illustration of it being necessary)
 
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razeontherock

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Furthermore, there's nothing in "embedded age" which is consistent with any of God's actions anywhere in the Bible -- it's purely a fantasy of the embedded agers.

So our resident poe insists God creates mature newborns. Good to know we need to take your form of logic with that particular grain of salt. (From the put down the shovel Dep't.)
 
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AV1611VET

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I still haven't heard from AVET or anyone else how God actually "embeds" age, or what that really means in a practical sense.
That's because we don't have a working definition of "old".

Whatever "old" entails, is whatever "old" entails.

For example, if "old" means that the atoms that make something up are "loose", then they're loose.

If it means the strong [or weak] nuclear force is weaker than the same force in a new object -- then that's what it means.

If it means they don't bond as well, then they don't bond as well.

And umgekehrt as well; if something (like a tree) is stronger due to stronger nuclear bonding, then an ex nihilo tree with the same chemical strength should suffice for embedded age.
 
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razeontherock

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Biblical faith -- but not faith in God.

Those are two separate issues

Sorry but you present a false dichotomy here. As an atheist why would you pretend to know what Faith in God even is? Why would you feign to understand the relationship between the two?

Cue Spock: highly illogical.
 
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