Bachmann's Scientific Illiteracy.

MachZer0

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Christians use labels as well - to denote differences between denominations and to identify Christian from non-Christian. You don't want to be associated with the Third Reich do you? Oh this game is fun!
Christians don't use labels in order to justify killing others. Odd that you missed that point
But man does have an influence on the climate.
That's actually in dispute
 
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MachZer0

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Wolseley

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Christians use labels as well - to denote differences between denominations and to identify Christian from non-Christian. You don't want to be associated with the Third Reich do you? Oh this game is fun!

See below; Mach made my statement for me. ;)

Christians don't use labels in order to justify killing others. Odd that you missed that point.

That's precisely what I was going to say, but you beat me to it. Thanks, Mach! :thumbsup:

But man does have an influence on the climate.

Not to the extent that the Sun does; and the Sun is what's behind global warming and/or cooling.

Certainly you aren't implying 100% consensus?

That's what it sounds like to me---but with these agenda-driven "scientific facts" it's usually all 'er nothin', as you know; any admission that there might be scientific evidence to the contrary of the pet theory causes the whole shebang to go kerpow, and we can't have that, now can we? ;)
 
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thaumaturgy

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Christians don't use labels in order to justify killing others.

Sadly this is not the history of Christianity. There is a strong history in Europe of vicious anti-semitism going back to the Middle Ages.

Indeed the history of the Church itself has people being killed for "heresies" within the faith. No doubt you've heard of the Albigensian Crusade in which the Catholic Church attempted to eliminate an heretical ostensibly Christian sect in France?

As an aside:
Are you familiar with the phrase "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out"? Well that has its origins in an apocryphal story from that crusade in which a papal legate is alleged to have said: "Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius" – "Kill them [all]! Surely the Lord discerns which [ones] are his"

However in the legate's own letter to the pope he states:

"...while discussions were still going on with the barons about the release of those in the city who were deemed to be Catholics, the servants and other persons of low degree and unarmed attacked the city without waiting for orders from their leaders. To our amazement, crying "to arms, to arms!", within the space of two or three hours they crossed the ditches and the walls and Béziers was taken. Our men spared no one, irrespective of rank, sex or age, and put to the sword almost 20,000 people. After this great slaughter the whole city was despoiled and burnt, as Divine vengeance miraculously..." (SOURCE)

So it's hard to tell if the legate himself would have said that.

How about the labels used to identify non-Christians during the other Crusades in the holy land?

In a matter of fact I don't actually believe Christians are more or less prone to violence than any other religion. I believe it is human nature over which we find differentiators and use them to hurt each other.

I don't believe that religion ever made anyone do anything they didn't want to do nor did it stay a violent hand when the one wielding it really wanted to wield it. And I think that is true of all religions.
 
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MachZer0

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Sadly this is not the history of Christianity. There is a strong history in Europe of vicious anti-semitism going back to the Middle Ages.

Indeed the history of the Church itself has people being killed for "heresies" within the faith. No doubt you've heard of the Albigensian Crusade in which the Catholic Church attempted to eliminate an heretical ostensibly Christian sect in France?

As an aside:
Are you familiar with the phrase "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out"? Well that has its origins in an apocryphal story from that crusade in which a papal legate is alleged to have said: "Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius" – "Kill them [all]! Surely the Lord discerns which [ones] are his"

However in the legate's own letter to the pope he states:



So it's hard to tell if the legate himself would have said that.

How about the labels used to identify non-Christians during the other Crusades in the holy land?

In a matter of fact I don't actually believe Christians are more or less prone to violence than any other religion. I believe it is human nature over which we find differentiators and use them to hurt each other.

I don't believe that religion ever made anyone do anything they didn't want to do nor did it stay a violent hand when the one wielding it really wanted to wield it. And I think that is true of all religions.
I s there any chance that you noticed my comment was couched in the present tense? :wave:
 
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Archaeopteryx

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Which other kinds are there?

The kinds that think people of other religions should be eliminated from public life.

Even in the scientific community. Certainly you aren't implying 100% consensus?

No, I am implying significant consensus.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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See below; Mach made my statement for me. ;)

And both you and Mach turned out to be wrong about that.

Not to the extent that the Sun does; and the Sun is what's behind global warming and/or cooling.

No one ever claimed that human beings influence the climate to the same extent as the sun does.

That's what it sounds like to me---but with these agenda-driven "scientific facts" it's usually all 'er nothin', as you know; any admission that there might be scientific evidence to the contrary of the pet theory causes the whole shebang to go kerpow, and we can't have that, now can we? ;)

Diamond planets, climate change and the scientific method
 
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DaisyDay

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Christians don't use labels in order to justify killing others.
"Terrorist", the f-word, the n-word (white Christian nationalist groups). Christians are people and people do justify their killings with convenient boogyman labels.

Of course, you could argue the no true Christian fallacy.

That's actually in dispute
Yeah, by denialists.
 
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DieHappy

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Circa02 - do you know how many things you were in contact with that day? Or in the previous week? How are you so certain that it was the vaccine that was responsible and not what you had for breakfast? Maybe you had a buildup of marmite in your system that caused the reaction? It makes as much sense biologically. How clear are your memories of that day? Or are you relying on your parents memories? Memories are very easily manipulated, and it's quite common to find parents who will swear blind that their child changed dramically after a vaccine, because that's what they remember, but the child's medical notes will contain signs of development disorder that predate it.

Probably only one thing he came into contact with had adjuvants specifically designed to weaken his immune system that were injected subdermally.


A single event in a single person cannot conculsively be determined. What you need to look for is raised incidence compared to control group. And even if there is an increased risk, you have to weigh the risk of the vaccination versus the risk of the disease.

A disease that is completely preventable without the vaccine and a vaccine that has causes numerous girls much trouble.
 
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Nathan Poe

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I s there any chance that you noticed my comment was couched in the present tense? :wave:

Is there any chance that could be relevant? If Christians have become less violent over the centuries, the impetus for that has been political and social -- not theological.
 
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DaisyDay

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And contracting cervical cancer through HPV is preventable, by changing behaviors. The government has no business forcing people to accept a vaccine, especially for a preventable disease
Sure, all women have to do is make absolutely sure their boyfriends and husbands always use condoms, make their husbands get certified HPV-free before trying to conceive with them and make sure their husbands never cheat without using a condom. That's so easy vaccines should be totally unnecessary. :rolleyes:
 
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DaisyDay

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Democrats lose two special elections and you want to talk about the fifth place Republican candidate.
Are you saying she is not a viable candidate and that she is not a part of American Politics?
 
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jayem

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And contracting cervical cancer through HPV is preventable, by changing behaviors.

To a degree. Monogamous women, who've not had multiple partners do get cervical cancer. Men can shed HPV without having visible warts. (It's well established that the partners of circumcised men have a much lower incidence of cervical cancer, too.) But there's nothing wrong with an extra measure of protection.

The government has no business forcing people to accept a vaccine, especially for a preventable disease

If the Congresswoman limited herself to this argument, I'd wouldn't quibble. I think it's prudent preventive medicine to give Gardasil, but I'm not convinced government should require it. However, she justified her objection by repeating a single, undocumented anecdote linking the vaccine to a conditon not demonstrated in published studies, and not even physiologically plausible. If she's not just pandering to the anti-vaccine crackpots, then she's one of them herself. In either case, she's scientifically ignorant.
 
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DaisyDay

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Well, who else is there?
Perry took a bashing, Ron Paul is too old and still too outside the mainstream. There is Mitt Romney, but he may be too moderate - would getting moderate, disgruntled Democratic vote make up for the loss of the right-wing extremists? Could be, if he could get the nomination.

Huntsman is way too grounded in reality for today's Republican party, I think; it seems to be into scientific illiteracy as a valid worldview.
 
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kermit

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For a lot of us, our mothers tell us what we did when we were little, the thing s we can't remember ourselves.
But people's preceptions are hardly objective and their memories are hardly infallable.

It's possible that his parents simply didn't notice the shaking before the vaccine or that it happened sometime afterward. But in his parents' perception (accurate or not) the events are linked and it's not hard to go from linked to happening on the same day.

When my daughter was a baby I liked to research vaccines and that inevitably led to vaccine conspiracies. I learned at that time that many tried to tie the murcury in vaccines to autism, but the problem with that theory is that if you take all the mercury from every vaccination that a child gets throughout their entire adolesence it's less than the mercury in a single tuna fish sandwich.
 
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Nathan Poe

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Huntsman is way too grounded in reality for today's Republican party, I think; it seems to be into scientific illiteracy as a valid worldview.

Indeed -- I'd vote Huntsman over Obama, but he's far too sincere and principled to get the green light -- he refuses to go full batguano in order to get nominated.
 
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