Bachmann's Scientific Illiteracy.

[Incariol]

What does that mean?

It means he also understands that you are wrong.

 

[Redac]

What does that mean?

If data point A and data point B correlate, that does not necessarily mean that one caused the other. Unless you can provide evidence of some sort of causal link, it cannot be assumed.

 

[jgarden]

As pointed out on CNN, Bachmann squandered her opportunity to place Perry on the defensive concerning his support of compulsory HPV vaccination in Texas and his political connections with Merck, its manufacturer.

Instead of doing her "due diligence" and confronting the Governor with indirect political contributions that far exceeded the $5000 he claimed, she later based her opposition to the vaccine based on 2nd hand, unverifiable information that some nameless stranger conveyed to her after the debate.

Her opposition concerning the dangers of the vaccine itself cannot be justified on medical grounds - reinforcing her reputation as a "loose cannon" and making her statements appear to be anything but "presidential."

It is readily apparent to everyone, but Bachmann, that based on this less than stellar performance, she has now exceeded the "15 minutes of fame" that she received in Iowa.

 

[circa02]

Wow, debate really is dead. When will I learn? I'll leave this futility to those with masochistic tendencies.

 

[Redac]

Wow, debate really is dead. When will I learn? I'll leave this futility to those with masochistic tendencies.

Hey, we're all wrong sometimes.

 

[Psudopod]

Circa02 - do you know how many things you were in contact with that day? Or in the previous week? How are you so certain that it was the vaccine that was responsible and not what you had for breakfast? Maybe you had a buildup of marmite in your system that caused the reaction? It makes as much sense biologically. How clear are your memories of that day? Or are you relying on your parents memories? Memories are very easily manipulated, and it's quite common to find parents who will swear blind that their child changed dramically after a vaccine, because that's what they remember, but the child's medical notes will contain signs of development disorder that predate it.

A single event in a single person cannot conculsively be determined. What you need to look for is raised incidence compared to control group. And even if there is an increased risk, you have to weigh the risk of the vaccination versus the risk of the disease.

 

[Ryal Kane]

There are certainly risks to vaccines and health services are usually quite up front about them. But there is usually a world of difference between these real risk and the supposed risks that anti-vaccination groups claim.

Despite the research being completely discredited the Autism link is now firmly embedded in the psyche of the opposition groups.

Unfortunately the HPV vaccine is a perfect storm of moral righteous indignation and scientific ignorance.

Even worse, among the groups that Bachmann is trying to appeal to, ignorance is a badge of honour.

 

[jayem]

Like most pharmaceuticals, the HPV vaccine has it's adverse effects

Cervical cancer can have very adverse effects, too.


Rep. Bachmann reminds me of the old Bob Dylan song:

"Idiot wind...blowing every time you move your mouth..."


(Blood On The Tracks. Great album)
apologies to tulc.

 

[Wolseley]

So Bachmann is scientifically illiterate? Then the progressives should wholeheartedly support her---after all, if she's that gullible, she'll be that much easier to convince that a fetus really isn't a baby and that global warming really is caused by human activity.

 

[DaisyDay]

Vaccines are not safe. I'm living proof. When I was a about 9 months old I got a vaccine, the very same day, my hands started shaking, and it's never stopped since, and I didn't talk until about 3, among other things.. I was devopling perfectly before that day. My sister has never had any vaccine of any kind, and she's never been sick.

You really remember that you never flapped your arms before? Because that is amazing - most people don't remember what they did in their first months of life, let alone what they didn't do.

On the other hand, if you are just going by what you were told, it's possible that nobody noticed before then and it's just become a family tale.

 

[Nathan Poe]

So Bachmann is scientifically illiterate? Then the progressives should wholeheartedly support her

Well, it would probably be the best thing to happen to Obama if Bachmann got the GOP nomination -- his reelection would be in the bag.

 

[Drekkan85]

circa - there's a common fallacy "post hoc ergo propter hoc", or in English "After it therefore because of it". Human like linking things into cause and effect, it's a natural thought. We like to think there are sudden, singular causes for all events.

In reality - the fact that the changes happened the day that you got the shot (though I think it hard to say this categorically given the fuzziness of infant mental and physical development and human memory), is a natural candidate for this fallacy. If anything, if it DID happen the exact day you got the shot then it's almost guaranteed to NOT be the shot itself; the vaccine has had such little time to actually do anything to your system compared to everything else you might have come into contact with (including your own genetics) which have had 9 months in the womb plus 9 months outside of it.

ETA: Boys should also get the vaccine. Beyond simply attempting to achieve herd immunity, HPV has now been linked to various other cancers in men - including penile cancer and cancer of the throat. It's much more rare, and only one or two specific species of the HPV that do this, but it's still a consideration.

 

[Psudopod]

So Bachmann is scientifically illiterate? Then the progressives should wholeheartedly support her---after all, if she's that gullible, she'll be that much easier to convince that a fetus really isn't a baby and that global warming really is caused by human activity.

Except for the fact that both of those things are demonstratable: a fetus is different to a birthed baby, that's why they have different lables. And all the evidence points to man having a detrimental effect on the climate leading to warming at a faster rate than any other point in our history.

More generally, this is why having scientifically literate politians is important. If they can't evaluate evidence, if they always fall for the "correlation must equal causation" line, how can they be relied on to govern the country in the best possible way? If a politian falls for something with no evidence like creationism or anti-vaccination, how can they be relied on to take an evidence based approach to policing, defence, health care or the economy?

 

[MachZer0]

Duh. And food is safe---for those who don't choke on it.

Water is safe---for those who don't drown in it.

Church is safe---for those who aren't run over and killed in the parking lot.

Odd analogies. I'm sure they worked for you

 

[Jro]

Vaccines caused my friend to become republican.

 

[MachZer0]

Cervical cancer can have very adverse effects, too.

And contracting cervical cancer through HPV is preventable, by changing behaviors. The government has no business forcing people to accept a vaccine, especially for a preventable disease

 

[Wolseley]

Except for the fact that both of those things are demonstratable: a fetus is different to a birthed baby, that's why they have different lables.

Yeah, the Third Reich had different labels for Jews and Aryans, too. Labeling makes all the difference, doesn't it?

And all the evidence points to man having a detrimental effect on the climate leading to warming at a faster rate than any other point in our history.

Last time I looked, man had no direct influence on the Sun, but if you say so.

More generally, this is why having scientifically literate politians is important. If they can't evaluate evidence, if they always fall for the "correlation must equal causation" line, how can they be relied on to govern the country in the best possible way? If a politian falls for something with no evidence like creationism or anti-vaccination, how can they be relied on to take an evidence based approach to policing, defence, health care or the economy?

Good question. Let me re-phrase it slightly. "This is why having economically literate politians is important. If they can't evaluate evidence, how can they be relied on to govern the country in the best possible way? If a politian falls for something with no evidence like the idea that massive stimulus spending will create jobs and lift the economy, how can they be relied on to take an evidence-based approach to policing, defense, health care or foreing relations?"

 

[MachZer0]

You really remember that you never flapped your arms before? Because that is amazing - most people don't remember what they did in their first months of life, let alone what they didn't do.

On the other hand, if you are just going by what you were told, it's possible that nobody noticed before then and it's just become a family tale.

For a lot of us, our mothers tell us what we did when we were little, the thing s we can't remember ourselves.

 

[MachZer0]

Figures she'd go after Perry for something he did right... and leave a trail of misconceptions and lies in her wake.

News Desk: Bachmann’s Political Contagion : The New Yorker


Thoughts?

So what exactly did Bachmann say about the science behind the vaccine?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Yeah, the Third Reich had different labels for Jews and Aryans, too. Labeling makes all the difference, doesn't it?

Christians use labels as well - to denote differences between denominations and to identify Christian from non-Christian. You don't want to be associated with the Third Reich do you? Oh this game is fun!

Last time I looked, man had no direct influence on the Sun, but if you say so.

But man does have an influence on the climate.