Controversial Abortion Thread

[benedictaoo]

That was a beautiful post, Gwendolyn, one that I agree with wholeheartedly.

Me as well... we need pro life reform.

 

[benedictaoo]

I feel a bit of guilt about that. Why don't I try to adopt one of these children who are at risk of being killed? I think the truth is, I don't want to raise them any more than their mothers do...and I think that makes me a pretty cruddy person.

Because for the same reasons they are aborting is the same reason why I couldn't adopt their child. It's not that I wouldn't want to do it but I just can't.

So lets address those reasons and leave the rhetoric out of it.

 

[MikeK]

Because for the same reasons they are aborting is the same reason why I couldn't adopt their child. It's not that I would want to do it but I just can't.

I could. Somehow. I mean, the child wouldn't starve to death, would be loved, would go to school and all that stuff. Might need thrift store clothes and we might have to eat lots of Ramen, maybe accept a few handouts - but my wife and I could support more children. We might have mental breakdowns, but they have drugs for that now. Besides, our personal suffering and imperfect raising of the child is still infinately better than killing the child in the womb, right?

 

[benedictaoo]

I agree...but that's not because one woman is a "selfish jerk" while another is a "spiritual seeker."

This one women in particular is... trust me... its how she was able to have so many.

 

[AMDG]

What would it hurt to offer to raise a child in danger of being aborted?

If it "floats your boat" and you can get around all the legal thing, go for it, but if you bothered to read the testimonies of the women on Silent No More, you will see that death was chosen (or coerced) and not having help was *not* the reason for that choice since there in fact *is* help if it is wanted.

You spoke of adoption, but since that's most likely out of the question, how about volunteering at your local crises birth center? If you can't do it personally, what about donations? I know for a fact that new items (maternal vitamins, baby food, diapers, blankets, clothes, furniture, etc.) are always needed. Prayer is always welcome too. That way we can all assure ourselves that death will not be chosen because of lack of ability to care.

Or maybe you might consider helping with the Knights of Columbus. They are very pro-life and have been known for doing much good in the area.

Maybe your parish can "adopt a family". Many can do more than one person and like I said then we can all rest assured that abortion won't be chosen for the mother's lack of ability to care.

 

[benedictaoo]

If that's what helps you sleep at night, great. I know that I'm not doing enough - that I am not personally shouldering enough of the burdons of others. What would it hurt to offer to raise a child in danger of being aborted? Maybe not every mother considering an abortion would go for it, but certainly at least some would. Want to help?

If it helps you sleep better, married Catholics who have 20 kids themselves, shouldn't be the ones offering to raise these kids.

The women who can't conceive who want a baby should be at the abortion mills pleading for these babies.

 

[AMDG]

And the testimonies of women who have actually *had* abortions and are "Silent No More" should be made more available. Testimonies like the ones on Abortion - Silent No More Awareness Campaign - Regional Coordinators . And don't forget that the men are suffering too (it's their child too but they have no say). And many of the grandparents of the little one whose life is snuffed out also line up in the suffering department.

Oh and perhaps the women who decide to go through with the abortion and kill their baby should be made aware that there are after-abortion care groups like Rachel's Vineyard which cost nothing, so they don't have to go it alone. (You know the abortion giant, Planned Parenthood doesn't care about the women. Their concern is only the money they can get. They don't follow the women in medical care.)

 

[MikeK]

And the testimonies of women who have actually *had* abortions and are "Silent No More" should be made more available. Testimonies like the ones on Abortion - Silent No More Awareness Campaign - Regional Coordinators . And don't forget that the men are suffering too (it's their child too but they have no say). And many of the grandparents of the little one whose life is snuffed out also line up in the suffering department.

Should the testimonies of the people like the OP is discussing - those who don't in any way regret their abortions, also be made more available, or should we only promote the people who feel the way we'd like them to feel?

 

[benedictaoo]

I could. Somehow. I mean, the child wouldn't starve to death, would be loved, would go to school and all that stuff. Might need thrift store clothes and we might have to eat lots of Ramen, maybe accept a few handouts - but my wife and I could support more children. We might have mental breakdowns, but they have drugs for that now. Besides, our personal suffering and imperfect raising of the child is still infinately better than killing the child in the womb, right?

Thats just the Catholic guilt talking... Catholics are hard wired to feel guilty about everything.

Now I know what "I'm a recovering Catholic means". I had to get to where I had to accept that I can't save the world and I had to accept that I'm not wrong to say no... but I still do have the guilt. I always feel like there is something I can do.

and it may not be catholic guilt- you may just be like me, a person who just helps anyone who needs it even if you really are in no position to help.

I have just had something come up where a grown women who can't find work who lives in one of the highest unemployment states in the country wants to come live with me and my husband and our 6 children, 2 who are also grown... becuase she thinks she can find work here.. she wants us to send her a bus ticket and she is asking we give her a place to stay.

Realistically, here we go again, we cant help her nor take care of another grown person... but I'm not going to say no and I know I'm not. I just have to figure out where I'm going to put this women...

what kills me is I know other people would tell me I'm crazy for helping this women and I have my own kids to think about, etc.

I do think it boils down to good ppl vrs not so good ppl. Guilty ppl vrs not so guilty ppl.

 

[MikeK]

Realistically, here we go again, we cant help her nor take care of another grown person... but I'm not going to say no and I know I'm not. I just have to figure out where I'm going to put this women...

What does she look like? There are lots of jobs in Wisconsin.

 

[mdancin4theLord]

...Because every thread we have about abortion blows up into something crazy.

But in all seriousness, I follow the Ottawa Students for Life blog (or whatever it is called), and they made a post not long ago about raising awareness among women for the after-effects of abortion. It heavily focused on telling the women that they will likely become depressed, make bad choices of partners in the future, and have unhealthy romantic relationships as a result of having an abortion.

I know that those are the usual tactics, but what bothers me is that approach to addressing women who have had abortions or are seeking abortions covers only half the story. I know women who have had abortions, and they have healthy, happy relationships. They suffer no depression, they are working hard toward building the life they dreamed of, and they are happy with their boyfriends. They know themselves very well, they don't put on fronts, and they aren't running from guilt demons in the night. I know that this isn't what pro-life people want to hear, but this actually IS the reality. There ARE women out there who honestly feel that their decision to abort their child was the best one they could have made in their situation, and they feel no regret or grief over it.

My question is - how do you minister to them? Women in that situation won't respond to insistences that they must be harbouring some secret depression, because they just... aren't. They won't respond to insistences that they must have dysfunctional relationships, because they just don't. I'm sure you could tell them that you know them better than they know themselves, but if there isn't any depression, grief, or dysfunction in their lives... how do you reach them with the message of life?

I am being serious. Please don't tell me that you could convince them that they actually ARE depressed or feeling intense guilt when they aren't. Presently, I haven't encountered a pro-life group who was able to effectively minister to this percentage of women. They play the, "Well, you MUST be depressed, even if you don't fee it!" card. Or the, "Well, you MUST feel guilty, and maybe you're just repressing it!" card. Also, I'm sure that calling those women murderers wouldn't be effective in getting them to listen to you, either. I think it is ineffective for women who feel none of those things. I am wondering how you could approach such a difficult, heartbreaking reality (that there are women out there who feel no remorse for their abortion) and still try to encourage such women to consider the message of life.

Would you just use the same tactics that you use with pro-choicers in general? Focus on the "the fetus is a human person" issue? Try to help the pro-choicers understand that life is life at any stage?

I'm just feeling frustrated and I would like some words of wisdom.

Well I am one of those women...who thought abortion was nothing. Twenty five years later...it hit. I became suicidal and it about tore my marriage and family apart. I was so depressed I could not function. I had been searching the scriptures getting closer to the Lord and I became uneasy. My sister had a baby at 23 1/2 weeks, 1 pound....and as I was looking at her in the neonatal unit...a nurse looked at me and said...they abort babies older than she is. I had my first panic attack. On 9-11 as the towers were coming down...I got on my hands and knees and gave it to the Lord. He saved me, lifted me up and gave me purpose. My husband did not share my love for God...and this caused even more problems because I was excited like being in love for the first time. Today he is fine...but my family, kids included did not like the new me, even though I was happy. I no longer watched R rated movies, I cleaned up my mouth, I did bible studies alone and at church....was part of a womans group and I started to do work with Right to Life groups....also Silent No More which is a group dedicated to the post abortive woman. I started praying and marching and attending conferences and fairs....picketing at PP clinics. For the most part they supported me. I started talking openly about the abortion I had. It is my testimony, of how Christ saved me.

This is a silent issue really, because I believe the majority of women suffer in silence like I did. I did not want to talk about it and hid the secret from everyone but my husband and my mother. No one wants anyone to know they killed their baby...even though society says that we have the right. Statistics are low...on how many suffer. I know I talk to broken women who can barely admit that they got one to themselves. So when people say it does not affect most women....they are just wrong. Most medical forms ask you how many pregnancies you have had......a reminder of the one you killed. Abortion pictures put a name to the procedure....a reminder of the one you killed, politicians talk about it in debates....a reminder to the one you killed....very few pastors but some talk about abortion as killing....another reminder to the one you killed. And if you search the scriptures about life in Gods eyes....it is not hard to know what you did....a reminder of what abortion does to everyone.

This is my lifes work....talking to broken women and telling them about Christ that He is the only answer to forgiveness and healing.

Abortion might be a public social issue in our country, but it is ALWAYS A PERSONAL ONE TO THE WOMAN GETTING IT. She is the one carrying around the shame and guilt....if you think that the majority of women don't care, you have no way of proving that. I believe that there are many women probably on this forum who had an abortion but remain silent. I think many pro-choice women speak out for abortion because it is a way of justifying what they did. They try to convince themselves that what they did was not sin...and because the World says its ok to do....what they did was ok. As Christians we do not follow the World...we follow Christ and we stand on the Scriptures. The Scriptures are plain...and they show sin...in this case the sin of abortion for what it is.
I pray for healing that God intervene in every post abortive womans heart...that she can admit guilt, ask forgiveness and enjoy the peace that only God can give. Its a tremendous burdon to carry around something like this and God can take that burdon.......He did for me.

 

[AMDG]

Should the testimonies of the people like the OP is discussing - those who don't in any way regret their abortions, also be made more available, or should we only promote the people who feel the way we'd like them to feel?

They already *have* been. Women are told--you really shouldn't talk about your abortion "let sleeping dogs lie"--that was to make you "happy"--now you *must* be happy. Don't remember. No talk about a vague feeling of sadness that seems to come on about the time...no wondering if the baby would look like the child you just passed...no wondering if all the miscarriages that you have experienced since (or the hysterectomy, or the breast cancer that you may have developed later :::and BTW I have some papers here that show that there isn't any connection like you and many research studies think, so you *must* be wrong to even think::: ...the broken relationship leaving you lonely and needy, it hasn't anything to do with the abortion, the guy would have left you anyway--it's *definitely* not that he no longer trusts you...and it's just your imagination that your children seem just a touch distant after they learned that you so easily killed their brother or sister and could have just as easily killed them. Nope, the abortion was a *service* for you. You wanted the abortion. Now you have it. Be happy. But whatever you do, don't think that "past is prologue" if you aren't deliriously happy.

Women need to know that there *is* help out there should it become necessary.

 

[mdancin4theLord]

Would like to add this.

I stand at college campuses holding a sign, "I regret the abortion I had please ask me why." I do this with the group, Silent No More.

The Lord has blessed by life on days that I do this. The people, men, women, grandmothers....fathers that line up to share their stories are simply amazing. The hurt that goes on because of abortion...that does not even involve the woman is tremendous. So abortion not only affect the one who is ripped about in the womb...or the one who paid to have it done, or the one who did the ripping.....it affects those in the womans families. They lost a son or daughter, a sister or brother or a grandbaby....etc.
Abortion does not just affect those directly involved..but indirectly.

 

[mdancin4theLord]

They already *have* been. Women are told--you really shouldn't talk about your abortion "let sleeping dogs lie"--that was to make you "happy"--now you *must* be happy. Don't remember. No talk about a vague feeling of sadness that seems to come on about the time...no wondering if the baby would look like the child you just passed...no wondering if all the miscarriages that you have experienced since (or the hysterectomy, or the breast cancer that you may have developed later :::and BTW I have some papers here that show that there isn't any connection like you and many research studies think, so you *must* be wrong to even think::: ...the broken relationship leaving you lonely and needy, it hasn't anything to do with the abortion, the guy would have left you anyway--it's *definitely* not that he no longer trusts you...and it's just your imagination that your children seem just a touch distant after they learned that you so easily killed their brother or sister and could have just as easily killed them. Nope, the abortion was a *service* for you. You wanted the abortion. Now you have it. Be happy. But whatever you do, don't think that "past is prologue" if you aren't deliriously happy.

Women need to know that there *is* help out there should it become necessary.

I was never told to not talk about the abortion I had. Its just a no brainer...you try to hide it. Not many women wear t-shirts that say...I aborted my baby, I'm so proud. Not many women mention this fact in every day conversations to people. It is easy to see why. I talk about mine openly...and share my story. It makes some people uncomfortable....especially the talks I have done...in front of women who are suffering and trying to hide that they too got one. It is something as a woman you try to not only hide but FORGET ABOUT. It is something our society does not want to see. The graphic images...shown show the inhumanity. No wonder the public does not want to see them. It is a reminder. We go to horror movies where they blundeon people to death...televisions show rapes....and everything you can think of.....so our culture can take stuff like this. But show an abortion.....something real...that shows that our country supports murder.....and people cant take it.

They want this reality to GO AWAY............shhhhhhhhhhhhh

There is help out there like you say. This is something we all should be talking about and as Christians we all should be praying and getting in the face of every abortion mill out there.

 

[MikeK]

I stand at college campuses holding a sign, "I regret the abortion I had please ask me why." I do this with the group, Silent No More.

That sounds like a great testimony, God Bless you for it!

 

[WarriorAngel]

...Because every thread we have about abortion blows up into something crazy.

But in all seriousness, I follow the Ottawa Students for Life blog (or whatever it is called), and they made a post not long ago about raising awareness among women for the after-effects of abortion. It heavily focused on telling the women that they will likely become depressed, make bad choices of partners in the future, and have unhealthy romantic relationships as a result of having an abortion.

I know that those are the usual tactics, but what bothers me is that approach to addressing women who have had abortions or are seeking abortions covers only half the story. I know women who have had abortions, and they have healthy, happy relationships. They suffer no depression, they are working hard toward building the life they dreamed of, and they are happy with their boyfriends. They know themselves very well, they don't put on fronts, and they aren't running from guilt demons in the night. I know that this isn't what pro-life people want to hear, but this actually IS the reality. There ARE women out there who honestly feel that their decision to abort their child was the best one they could have made in their situation, and they feel no regret or grief over it.

My question is - how do you minister to them? Women in that situation won't respond to insistences that they must be harbouring some secret depression, because they just... aren't. They won't respond to insistences that they must have dysfunctional relationships, because they just don't. I'm sure you could tell them that you know them better than they know themselves, but if there isn't any depression, grief, or dysfunction in their lives... how do you reach them with the message of life?

I am being serious. Please don't tell me that you could convince them that they actually ARE depressed or feeling intense guilt when they aren't. Presently, I haven't encountered a pro-life group who was able to effectively minister to this percentage of women. They play the, "Well, you MUST be depressed, even if you don't fee it!" card. Or the, "Well, you MUST feel guilty, and maybe you're just repressing it!" card. Also, I'm sure that calling those women murderers wouldn't be effective in getting them to listen to you, either. I think it is ineffective for women who feel none of those things. I am wondering how you could approach such a difficult, heartbreaking reality (that there are women out there who feel no remorse for their abortion) and still try to encourage such women to consider the message of life.

Would you just use the same tactics that you use with pro-choicers in general? Focus on the "the fetus is a human person" issue? Try to help the pro-choicers understand that life is life at any stage?

I'm just feeling frustrated and I would like some words of wisdom.

I know a woman who had 2 or was it 3 abortions who for 25 years didnt act remorseful.
Then one day.... like a dam broke and she finally discovered the guilt she had hidden all those years surfaced and she finally felt her heart was broken.

So - eventually it may happen. And when it does it may not be pretty. For some it is only a matter of faith in the Lord keeping them together from suicide.

 

[WarriorAngel]

...adding it may have been her eventual divorce that led to her break down of the abortions.

 

[WarriorAngel]

...adding it may have been her eventual divorce that led to her break down of the abortions.

O and she had a house in the suburbs, two kids, a dog, husband had a great income and she worked when she wanted to in a career as a nurse.
Everything was near picture perfect except he cheated on her and apparently all was not as hoped.

Surface happiness can be ripped away if the relationship is dysfunctional and not even the wife knows it.

 

[Erose]

...Because every thread we have about abortion blows up into something crazy.

But in all seriousness, I follow the Ottawa Students for Life blog (or whatever it is called), and they made a post not long ago about raising awareness among women for the after-effects of abortion. It heavily focused on telling the women that they will likely become depressed, make bad choices of partners in the future, and have unhealthy romantic relationships as a result of having an abortion.

I know that those are the usual tactics, but what bothers me is that approach to addressing women who have had abortions or are seeking abortions covers only half the story. I know women who have had abortions, and they have healthy, happy relationships. They suffer no depression, they are working hard toward building the life they dreamed of, and they are happy with their boyfriends. They know themselves very well, they don't put on fronts, and they aren't running from guilt demons in the night. I know that this isn't what pro-life people want to hear, but this actually IS the reality. There ARE women out there who honestly feel that their decision to abort their child was the best one they could have made in their situation, and they feel no regret or grief over it.

My question is - how do you minister to them? Women in that situation won't respond to insistences that they must be harbouring some secret depression, because they just... aren't. They won't respond to insistences that they must have dysfunctional relationships, because they just don't. I'm sure you could tell them that you know them better than they know themselves, but if there isn't any depression, grief, or dysfunction in their lives... how do you reach them with the message of life?

I am being serious. Please don't tell me that you could convince them that they actually ARE depressed or feeling intense guilt when they aren't. Presently, I haven't encountered a pro-life group who was able to effectively minister to this percentage of women. They play the, "Well, you MUST be depressed, even if you don't fee it!" card. Or the, "Well, you MUST feel guilty, and maybe you're just repressing it!" card. Also, I'm sure that calling those women murderers wouldn't be effective in getting them to listen to you, either. I think it is ineffective for women who feel none of those things. I am wondering how you could approach such a difficult, heartbreaking reality (that there are women out there who feel no remorse for their abortion) and still try to encourage such women to consider the message of life.

Would you just use the same tactics that you use with pro-choicers in general? Focus on the "the fetus is a human person" issue? Try to help the pro-choicers understand that life is life at any stage?

I'm just feeling frustrated and I would like some words of wisdom.

You are not reading the information carefully. On legitimate sites it will tell you that statistically your chances of these things happening to you increases. It doesn't say that these things will happen to you, but rather statistically speaking there is an increased chance that you will go through one or more of these issues.

Take a look at the link provided:

Physicians For Life - Abstinence, Abortion, Birth Control - Abortion: Adverse Effects in a Nutshell

All of this is statistical data. Now grant alot of these issues such as drug abuse or selecting a bad husband or whatever may have just as much to do with their lifestyles before and after they murdered their child.

The depression comes to those that feel some level of guilt for what they did. I haven't seen any statistics on this if there is any, but if I had to guess those women that are more prone to go through depression immediately after an abortion are probably those that really wanted to keep their child but were forced into having an abortion by their parent(s), boyfriend, friends, etc.

Guilt comes from realizing you did something wrong. If you don't think you did anything wrong there is no reason to have guilt. Many of the women you are talking about that are not depressed don't think they did anything wrong. In their mind they have done nothing wrong. It isn't until after they learn somewhere along the line that they did do a great evil that guilt may set in. But until they feel that conviction...

Like I said, don't take these comments as they happen 100% of the time, but rather that statistically the woman's chances increase in having one or more of these issues. That is all.

 

[AMDG]

A beautiful testimony. And I'm certain that it is helpful. God bless you. You are very brave.

Well I am one of those women...who thought abortion was nothing. Twenty five years later...it hit. I became suicidal and it about tore my marriage and family apart. I was so depressed I could not function. I had been searching the scriptures getting closer to the Lord and I became uneasy. My sister had a baby at 23 1/2 weeks, 1 pound....and as I was looking at her in the neonatal unit...a nurse looked at me and said...they abort babies older than she is. I had my first panic attack. On 9-11 as the towers were coming down...I got on my hands and knees and gave it to the Lord. He saved me, lifted me up and gave me purpose. My husband did not share my love for God...and this caused even more problems because I was excited like being in love for the first time. Today he is fine...but my family, kids included did not like the new me, even though I was happy. I no longer watched R rated movies, I cleaned up my mouth, I did bible studies alone and at church....was part of a womans group and I started to do work with Right to Life groups....also Silent No More which is a group dedicated to the post abortive woman. I started praying and marching and attending conferences and fairs....picketing at PP clinics. For the most part they supported me. I started talking openly about the abortion I had. It is my testimony, of how Christ saved me.

This is a silent issue really, because I believe the majority of women suffer in silence like I did. I did not want to talk about it and hid the secret from everyone but my husband and my mother. No one wants anyone to know they killed their baby...even though society says that we have the right. Statistics are low...on how many suffer. I know I talk to broken women who can barely admit that they got one to themselves. So when people say it does not affect most women....they are just wrong. Most medical forms ask you how many pregnancies you have had......a reminder of the one you killed. Abortion pictures put a name to the procedure....a reminder of the one you killed, politicians talk about it in debates....a reminder to the one you killed....very few pastors but some talk about abortion as killing....another reminder to the one you killed. And if you search the scriptures about life in Gods eyes....it is not hard to know what you did....a reminder of what abortion does to everyone.

This is my lifes work....talking to broken women and telling them about Christ that He is the only answer to forgiveness and healing.

Abortion might be a public social issue in our country, but it is ALWAYS A PERSONAL ONE TO THE WOMAN GETTING IT. She is the one carrying around the shame and guilt....if you think that the majority of women don't care, you have no way of proving that. I believe that there are many women probably on this forum who had an abortion but remain silent. I think many pro-choice women speak out for abortion because it is a way of justifying what they did. They try to convince themselves that what they did was not sin...and because the World says its ok to do....what they did was ok. As Christians we do not follow the World...we follow Christ and we stand on the Scriptures. The Scriptures are plain...and they show sin...in this case the sin of abortion for what it is.
I pray for healing that God intervene in every post abortive womans heart...that she can admit guilt, ask forgiveness and enjoy the peace that only God can give. Its a tremendous burdon to carry around something like this and God can take that burdon.......He did for me.