Biblical Content and/or Christian Interpretation of Masonry

vespasia

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Have to admit to never being a mason, it never appealed when there where far more interesting things to go a study and experiment with for those with *cough* inquiring minds and a left handed bent but....



Can you please explain why you are using thelemic grades that do not have parity with most masonic ones in a discussion on free-masonary?


Could you also kindly tell what it was you did to achieved the level of adepetus. Your posts in their construction of arguements and contents are saying otherwise.


If you did understand thelema you will know what you claim for your father is grandiose.


What have you been reading on line as it clearly is not helping you to focus upon God. Your still reading conspiracy sites with no discretion, discernment or critical thinking. No one who seriously studied the occult gets up without critical thinking being in place.


Then you via off into new age ideas of ascended masters drawing from eastern concepts before adding in the latest Conspiracy Theory of colour coded iluminati- have you actually read any western historical archives and grasped the social and political up-heaveal of Europe that resulted in religious fist-cuffs between Catholics and Protestants?

Isreal wondered in the wilderness as punishment for disobedience after they left Eypgt. Paul speaks of salvation being for the Gentiles as well as the Jews; have a look at Galatians.


The scripture tells us that Christ will come with the company of heaven and not a specific quantity. Where then did this figure and idea of 10,000 saints come from?

Then you detour into greek philosophical concepts of state which the bible does not use.

Jesus does not have a score to settle with Soloman for Soloman when he fell into error and sin was already in Gods hands. [1 kings 11]

Want to know where all these occult lies come from: THE FALSE GOSPEL IN THE STARS
ALL? That is naïve in the extreme.

Sorry but this really is a conspiracy theory website pure and simple not a reliable Christian apologetics site. Try using google scholar as that will give you access to the better Christian reserachers and writers.


Try Marcia Montenegro at Christian Answers for the New Age. She was a formally qualified astrologer now a qualified Christian apologist who researches, cites and uses scripture in to refute error in context. Her approach to astrology is drawn from an empirical objective as well as theoritical subjective evidences About CANA: Marcia Montenegro's Story (detailed)
 
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ChristianMasonJim

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Transformation is a subtle process carried out through 33 degrees of initiation. I am familiar with them due to my father being involved, he was a 9=2 To Mega Therion, and I was a 6=5 Adeptus.

The very few who are at the high point of this pyramid are Luciferian masters who worship the devil. The serpent is the master of subtlety, leading the whole world into darkness one little brick at a time. Some also believe that the messiah and the serpent are the same. For one said "ye shall become as gods," and the other said "have I not said ye are as Gods?" Clearly we are Gods, but we did it through disobedience. Do not be beguiled to take what God will freely give you. The Lord can do everything Egypt can do, plus the plagues, and the parting of the red sea.

Beyond them are the ascended masters, who are shadow people with red glowing eyes. I've had a fair number of confrontations with them too. Even Jesus said that satan is the lord of this world. Therefore the masons who have secretly built this world are his disciples, many unknowingly. Perhaps what is most confusing is that the black, white, and yellow illuminati all use YHVH, or the power of God.

Let's consider history as the Bible proclaims it:

1) Garden of Eden - up until "the sons of god came upon the daughters of man"
2) Demonic intervention resulting in God flooding the world, saving very few
3) Rescue out of Egypt, and Israels glory
4) Jesus Christ dies for our sins, up through satans blasphemous age of catholicism
5) Demonic intervention resulting in the great tribulation
6) Rescue out of tribulation, destruction via fire, and Israels ressurection
7) The holy rest of God

Going back to Eden - God's curses are wearing off

1) The woman's desire is no longer to her husband
2) The enmity between the serpents and women has been done away with
3) Man no longer has to till the ground. In the modern age everything is convenient
4) The serpent has once again become the dragon
5) Many are rejecting the knowledge to discern good from evil, believing themselves to be perfect
6) Death will be undone. (In those days shall men seek death and not find it)
7) God returns to walk among us

As the whole world become Egypt, God will therefore rapture us out of Egypt. And as the face of the whole world become Israel, Jesus will come with 10,000 of his saints! And as the whole world become mystery babylon, profaning God's sacred promise within the rainbow, so shall the prince of the powers of the air and all his followers be fed to the fire. Air evaporates water, fire consumes air! Clouds they are, without water. They will not escape the fire.

Just as Abraham and the prophets introduced their wives as their sisters, lest they be killed. So has Jesus out-jewed the jews by introducing us as sisters, then reclaiming us as his bride. Baptized in Water, with Gods holy promise not to destroy them, an absolute requirement for salvation.

Ye who hail Solomon, and his harem of 1000 pagan wives, lo and behold there is one greater then Solomon! Thank you lord for hiding these things from the wise and revealing them onto babes. For the lord shall crush the wise with the things of fools. Jesus has a score to settle with Solomon.

What profiteth a man to gain the whole world and lose his own soul? Make no mistake, masonry is the king of all pyramid scams. These are they who have killed God's children throughout every single age.

Atlantis sunk, the tower of babel fell, your new atlanean order with it's 19 levels of angelic healers and 9 anunnaki nephilim king ringwraiths of old, is going to be strike 3.

Want to know where all these occult lies come from: THE FALSE GOSPEL IN THE STARS
The chapter on Virgo is especially interesting. Lo, those who worship the mother goddess, the feminine form of satan, astraea, who is within the sacred circle with the sword of blue flame. You seek to turn nothing into something, but this beast from the sea will not subdue the Lord. Lemuria, thou art fallen! Sitra Ahra, thou art nothing!

Lo, Ye were given 10 commandments, but ye turn and worship ten unholy sephiroth. No amount of wisdom will save you from sin. All of your knowledge floats in the event horizon of the Abyss, and ye worship Appollyon, angel of the bottomless pit.
Having gone through all of the degrees of the Blue Lodge, the York Rite, and the Scottish Rite (except the 33rd degree) as well as several degrees in several appendent bodies, I can confirm that what you describe has absolutely nothing to do with any of those degrees.

Please provide documentation that links what you describe to Freemasonry.
 
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Rev Wayne

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I can relate. If I may offer some advice, I'd look long and hard into that issue and try to resolve it before trying to improve yourself in masonry. Cordially, Skip.
Amen. Fix the vertical first, then the horizontal. Straight pathways with God will always precede any chance of being in proper relationship with others.
 
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RickardoHolmes

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That's good Rev Wayne. Fix the Vertical first/

Problem is, I have not found any congregations around here like yours. And having a proper relationship with others, I will admit that is an issue, which is maybe why I am so independant and why I have been spending Sundays home. I would suggest we talk in private, as I have wasted enough time on this board as the original idea was to discuss Christian Interpretations of Masonry. You are both more than welcome to send me a private message anytime. Thanks
 
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Rev Wayne

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I had recently mentioned the fact that in Masonry, at various points in time, had included and placed emphasis on the stories in the Bible about Noah and the Ark, Abraham and the command to sacrifice Isaac, the story of Moses and God's deliverance of Israel in the Passover; and I had mentioned the fact that these stories, along with the central focus we find on the building of Solomon's Temple, are all considered to be stories that are typological references to Jesus Christ; I had also suggested that the sheer number of such typological references could not have been accidental, and that they must have been included in Freemasonry by design.

Apparently there have been others who thought so, and who expressed those thoughts:

Freemasonry as it is practised at the present day commemorates particularly five great events in the history of the world, each typical of the Messiah. These are, the vision of Jacob, when he beheld the celebrated ladder, reaching from earth to heaven; the offering of Isaac upon Mount Moriah, when it pleased the Lord to substitute a more agreeable victim in his stead; the miraculous deliverance from Egyptian bondage under the conduct of Moses; the offering of David on the threshing-floor of Araunah the Jebusite; and the building of Solomon's Temple. Now these extraordinary events, which unequivocally point to our Saviour Jesus Christ, are the principal historical events contained in our lectures. The coincidence could not have been accidental, and must, therefore, have been designed. It follows then that Masonry was intended to perpetuate that most important fact, the salvation of souls through the atonement of Christ. (Josiah Whymper, The Religion of Freemasonry, P. 224, citing George Oliver from Star in the East)

It has been pointed out to you that the furnitures of the Lodge are emblems excitive of morality and good government; prudence shines in the centre; or if you would apply this object to more sacred principles, it represents the blazing star which conducted the wise men to Bethlehem, and proclaimed the presence of the Son of God.
In this assembly of Christians, it is no wise requisite to attempt an argument on the necessity which there was upon the earth for a Mediator and Saviour for man; in the rubbish, superstitions, ceremonials, and faith of the Jewish temple, the true worship of God was buried and confounded, and innocence became only the ornaments of its monument. Then it was that the Divinity, looking down with an eye of commiseration on the deplorable state of man, in His mercy and love sent us a Preceptor and Mediator, who should teach to us the doctrine of regeneration, and raise us from the sepulchre of sin to which the human race had resigned themselves; He gave to us the precepts of that acceptable service wherewith his Father should be well pleased; He made the sacrifice of expiation, and becoming the first fruits of them that slept, manifested to mankind the resurrection of the body and the life everlasting. In the Master's order this whole doctrine is symbolised, and the Christian conduct is by types presented to us. (Whymper, p. 249-50, citing Hutchinson's Spirit of Masonry)

 
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O.F.F.

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It follows then that Masonry was intended to perpetuate that most important fact, the salvation of souls through the atonement of Christ.

That is the purpose of the CHURCH, NOT FREEMASONRY!!!

Yet this comes from a book entitled, The Religion of Freemasonry. If that's not an attempt by Masons to supplant Christianity with its own religion, I don't know what else would be required to show that it is. However, the good news is, there is not a Grand Lodge in the US that will substantiate these personal opinions with their own official proclamations.
 
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Rev Wayne

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If that's not an attempt by Masons to supplant Christianity with its own religion, I don't know what else would be required to show that it is.

You don't? I would think, at the very least, one would need to show, Masonry "perpetuating something OTHER THAN salvation through the atonement of Christ." "Perpetuating salvation through the atonement of Christ," is furthering the gospel of CHRIST!

Have you really sunk that low that you refer to "perpetuating salvation through the atonement of Christ" as "some OTHER gospel???"

Man, you guys really need some brushing up on your basic Christian theology.

However, the good news is, there is not a Grand Lodge in the US that will substantiate these personal opinions with their own official proclamations.

There's one for certain, which we've already covered: the Grand Lodge of Michigan affirms that the Lion of the Tribe of Judah refers to the "Messiah" of the "Christian Dispensation," which has "brought life and immortality to light," and will thereby, "through the merits of the Lion of the Tribe of Judah"--Christ--will raise us so that "our bodies will become as incorruptible as our souls." Now if that's not "salvation through the atonement of Christ" as well, given the quote-enclosed exclusively Christian references, I don't know what else would be required to show that it is.

But thanks for responding, it's a real hoot to watch somebody try to sustain a claim that Masonry is trying to "supplant" Christianity with "salvation through the atonement of Christ." In other words, trying to supplant Christianity with Christianity.

You need to go back and revisit your comment about "biblically knowledgeable"--only this time, do so with a mirror so you can see the difference between "biblically knowledgeable" and what you just posted. And take Skip with you when you do, maybe he can get straightened out about marrying prostitutes...er, I'm sorry, those of the "lady of the evening" profession.
 
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Skip Sampson

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Wayne:
Speaking of Dr. Oliver:
Prominent English Freemason, born Nov.5, 1782; died March 3, 1867; one of the most voluminous writers on the subject of Freemasonry, but not a reliable one. ... Even the most laudatory of Oliver's biographers attribute to him "a too easy credulity and a too great warmth of imagination, which led him to accept without hesitation the crude theories of prior writers and to recognize documents and legends as unquestionably authentic whose truthfulness in subsequent researches have led most Masonic schoalrs to doubt or deny." The title, therefore, which has at times been given him of "Father of Anglo-Saxon Masonic Literature" is unduly flattering. Dr. Oliver's views on Freemasonry were really extensions and developments of those expressed by Hutchinson in Spirit of Masonry. He believed in what may be called teh Patriarchal thory of Antediluvian, Preinundation, Pure Masonry supposedly taught by Seth and Noah, which descended to King Solomon and from him to the Christian Dispensation of the present day. His resolute conclusion was that Freemasonry was Christian or it was nothing. (Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia, 1st edition, 1961, pg. 456; 2nd edition, same page)
You are pretty selective in who you wish to believe about Freemasonry. Dr. Oliver is not a very good source upon which to base your conclusions.


Wayne said:
There's one for certain, which we've already covered: the Grand Lodge of Michigan affirms that the Lion of the Tribe of Judah refers to the "Messiah" of the "Christian Dispensation," which has "brought life and immortality to light," and will thereby, "through the merits of the Lion of the Tribe of Judah"--Christ--will raise us so that "our bodies will become as incorruptible as our souls."
You should have looked deeper into the matter. If you search the MI GL website, you'll find it points you to the MSA Pocket Encyclopedia of Masonic Symbols, which has this to say about the Lion of the Tribe of Judah:
Symbol of the Messiah, which can have different names for brethren of different religions. Judah was symbolized as a lion in his father's deathbed blessing. The lion was upon the standard of the large and powerful tribe of Judah. "Lion of the Tribe of Judah" was one of Solomon's titles. Christian interpretation of the phrase springs from Revelation (V: 5), "Behold the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book and to loose the seven seals thereof." The idea of a resurrection is curiously interwoven with the lion in all ages and was connected with resurrection long before the Man of Galilee walked upon the earth. In ancient Egypt, a lion raised Osiris from a dead level to a living perpendicular by a grip of his paw; Egyptian carvings show a figure standing behind the Altar, observing the raising of the dead, with its left arm raised, forming the angle of a square. The Lion of the Tribe of Judah, considered as signifying a coming redeemer who would spring from the tribe, or meaning the King of Israel who built the Temple, or symbolizing the Christ, must not be confused with a mode of recognition. (MI GL website, 2011; derived from MSA Pocket Encyclopedia of Masonic Symbols)
Michigan is yet another GL that implies one thing in ritual and defines it as something entirely different in training materials. That the MSA reference is access via the MI GL website makes it GL material, thus making it authoritative.

Once again, your argument gets blown up by other, more authoritative, Masons. Cordially, Skip.
 
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Rev Wayne

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You are pretty selective in who you wish to believe about Freemasonry.

As are you. Coil is standard antimason fare for sure. Mackey calls Oliver one of the most, if not THE most, knowledgeable Masons who ever lived. The very fact that Mackey would say that, I'm sure, was probably sufficient reason for Coil to write that. He makes it pretty clear elsewhere he doesn't particularly care for Mackey's work, and seems pretty obsessed with trying to outdo him. And then there's this:

"a too easy credulity and a too great warmth of imagination, which led him to accept without hesitation the crude theories of prior writers and to recognize documents and legends as unquestionably authentic whose truthfulness in subsequent researches have led most Masonic schoalrs to doubt or deny."

As anyone who knows anything about Oliver knows, this was said in reference to theories which far more people than just Oliver gave credence to, the idea that Masonry originated in ancient times, even before Christianity. There was a general trend of acceptance of the theory during the time Oliver lived. Mackey and Pike were both caught up in that trend as well; but the two of them, having come along later than Oliver, were alive at the time that Gould's History of Freemasonry, which laid to rest those theories for good. Gould's History is still the history considered by Masons to be the best. When it was published, Mackey retracted his earlier opinions, acknowledging that better information had been published to the contrary. Pike, having almost completed his magnum opus, was reticent to watch all his work go down the drain, and so he went to press with it all anyway, choosing to simply put a disclaimer in his preface, declaring all the material open to reader interpretation.

Dr. Oliver is not a very good source upon which to base your conclusions.

Not true. You dug up one source and declared him unreliable. Not a very good basis upon which to make ANY conclusions.

If you search the MI GL website, you'll find it points you to the MSA Pocket Encyclopedia of Masonic Symbols, which has this to say about the Lion of the Tribe of Judah:

Sorry, but I didn't find it "pointing" to any such thing. Can't you post links? Or is that too difficult for you to manage, even though you dogmatically insist upon it from others? Oh, that's right, I forgot, that antimason DOUBLE STANDARD at work again.

Besides, for Michigan jurisdiction, it doesn't really matter what their website "points you to," when their RITUAL says otherwise. MSA Pocket Encyclopedia is superseded in Michigan by their ritual, that's an easy assessment for someone not obsessed with petty denials, as you clearly are.

Not sure what you mean by "points you to," either. What kind of page was that, Skip, a list of links, with a notation that "you might find these other sites to be of interest to you," as GL websites generally tend to do? (If it exists at all, that is, which you haven't shown.) No way that can be made to have anything to do with official Michigan documents like the ritual.

One can appreciate the fact that you were willing to go and dig up things from the Michigan website, but unless you think you can find something that supersedes the ritual, your "discovery" doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

And the irony doesn't escape me that once more you show how obsessed you truly are with all of this, by being willing to reverse yet another former position taken on this forum. Last time I pulled out something from MSA and asserted it, you were dissing it seven ways from sundown. I'm not a bit surprised you'd abandon yet another former claim, you seem to invent this stuff as you go along.

That the MSA reference is access via the MI GL website makes it GL material, thus making it authoritative.

BULLoney! Spoken like a true-blue Mike Gentry henchman. You didn't even provide a link to support your claim, a claim which will be in doubt until you do, since I cannot find what you describe ANYWHERE on the site. I did find a LINK to an MSA "Masonic Dictionary Project," but the site did not have the info you claim, plus it was clear it was an MSA page, NOT a Michigan Grand Lodge page. Linking to a site from a GL page means exactly JACK SQUAT regarding "GL material." The only way you can claim "GL material" status for what you cited would be if you cited something the GL either published themselves, or something which, though published elsewhere, was actually posted on the GL site itself as part of their Masonic information.

Links are just that, simply links. Heck, they even link to other GL sites, many of which post GL materials of their own publishing. By your specious fly-by-night logic, another GL's publications could be declared to be Michigan's "Grand Lodge material." That's absurd, yes, but it's where your "logic" leads.

Mike already tried something just as assinine, with no more credibility than yourself. Can't believe how low you guys are willing to place yourself on the credibility level, but I get the feeling this is only the tip of the iceberg for both of you.

Once again, your argument gets blown up by other, more authoritative, Masons.

The only thing blowing in your post is your claim, which is truly blowing in the wind. Sorry, YOUR OWN DECLARATION about the pecking order of GL materials REFUTES YOUR VERY OWN CLAIM. You can't assert MSA materials that in all likelihood have no direct connection with Michigan GL, over materials found in their own book of the ritual.

If that's all you got, you might as well go home, boy.
 
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O.F.F.

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Wayne:
Speaking of Dr. Oliver:You are pretty selective in who you wish to believe about Freemasonry. Dr. Oliver is not a very good source upon which to base your conclusions.

Prominent English Freemason, born Nov.5, 1782; died March 3, 1867; one of the most voluminous writers on the subject of Freemasonry, but not a reliable one. ... Even the most laudatory of Oliver's biographers attribute to him "a too easy credulity and a too great warmth of imagination, which led him to accept without hesitation the crude theories of prior writers and to recognize documents and legends as unquestionably authentic whose truthfulness in subsequent researches have led most Masonic schoalrs to doubt or deny." The title, therefore, which has at times been given him of "Father of Anglo-Saxon Masonic Literature" is unduly flattering. Dr. Oliver's views on Freemasonry were really extensions and developments of those expressed by Hutchinson in Spirit of Masonry. He believed in what may be called teh Patriarchal thory of Antediluvian, Preinundation, Pure Masonry supposedly taught by Seth and Noah, which descended to King Solomon and from him to the Christian Dispensation of the present day. His resolute conclusion was that Freemasonry was Christian or it was nothing. (Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia, 1st edition, 1961, pg. 456; 2nd edition, same page)

You should have looked deeper into the matter. If you search the MI GL website, you'll find it points you to the MSA Pocket Encyclopedia of Masonic Symbols, which has this to say about the Lion of the Tribe of Judah:

Symbol of the Messiah, which can have different names for brethren of different religions. Judah was symbolized as a lion in his father's deathbed blessing. The lion was upon the standard of the large and powerful tribe of Judah. "Lion of the Tribe of Judah" was one of Solomon's titles. Christian interpretation of the phrase springs from Revelation (V: 5), "Behold the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book and to loose the seven seals thereof." The idea of a resurrection is curiously interwoven with the lion in all ages and was connected with resurrection long before the Man of Galilee walked upon the earth. In ancient Egypt, a lion raised Osiris from a dead level to a living perpendicular by a grip of his paw; Egyptian carvings show a figure standing behind the Altar, observing the raising of the dead, with its left arm raised, forming the angle of a square. The Lion of the Tribe of Judah, considered as signifying a coming redeemer who would spring from the tribe, or meaning the King of Israel who built the Temple, or symbolizing the Christ, must not be confused with a mode of recognition. (MI GL website, 2011; derived from MSA Pocket Encyclopedia of Masonic Symbols)

Michigan is yet another GL that implies one thing in ritual and defines it as something entirely different in training materials. That the MSA reference is access via the MI GL website makes it GL material, thus making it authoritative.

Once again, your argument gets blown up by other, more authoritative, Masons. Cordially, Skip.

canstock3399367.jpg
Way to go Skip; you nailed him again!
bravo_smiley.gif
 
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Skip Sampson

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Mackey calls Oliver one of the most, if not THE most, knowledgeable Masons who ever lived.
And then you go on to note that the theories he advanced were wrong, as he just went along with the crowd, so to speak. Seems you've just proved that Coil was right.

Sorry, but I didn't find it "pointing" to any such thing.
Guess using the 'search' function on the MI GL website was too tough for you. As noted elsewhere, just type 'lion' in that field and follow the links. Be advised that the MSA alternates contents of that every day.


even though you dogmatically insist upon it from others?
Actually I insist on cites, not links. I assume others are smart enough to follow the cite. Sorry for giving you too much credit for brains.



Besides, for Michigan jurisdiction, it doesn't really matter what their website "points you to," when their RITUAL says otherwise.
As noted elsewhere, that is untrue. The ritual does not directly equate the Lion of the Tribe of Judah with Jesus, and the MI Gl website points directly to a claim that the 'messiah' could be just about anyone.


Last time I pulled out something from MSA and asserted it, you were dissing it seven ways from sundown.
Untrue. I was disputing your claim that a personal opinion of the MSA executive director was as authoritative as an MSA publication.


Spoken like a true-blue Mike Gentry henchman.
Wrong descriptor, but thanks anyway. Being mentioned in the same sentence as Mike is a compliment indeed.


You didn't even provide a link to support your claim, a claim which will be in doubt until you do,
Untrue. By now you've found it.


The only way you can claim "GL material" status for what you cited would be if you cited something the GL either published themselves, or something which, though published elsewhere, was actually posted on the GL site itself as part of their Masonic information.
True, which is exactly what exists on the MI GL website. Use the Search function for 'lion' and it leads you there.


Links are just that, simply links.
True enough, but when the website refers one directly to another webpage during a search action, that's conveying authority. Remember this comment:

wayne said:
Missouri Lodge of Research's website is a direct page link from the GL website, and is an arm of the Missouri GL. (Your #363 on Monitorial thread)
In that, you were trying to make the case that the Lodge quoted was authoritative merely because it had a link posted on the GL's site. You might try to be consistent in your discussions, unless it's too much to ask. You'd have to remember what you wrote, so I understand if that would be too hard on you.

You can't assert MSA materials that in all likelihood have no direct connection with Michigan GL, over materials found in their own book of the ritual.
I'm not. I'm asserting that when the MI GL uses MSA sources to answer searches on their own web site, that source carries the weight of GL authority.


If that's all you got, you might as well go home, boy.
Such spurious denigration; did you learn that phrase during the Masonic golf match you mentioned? Cordially, Skip.
 
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Rev Wayne

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Such spurious denigration;

"Denigration?" Then is that what it was when you used it in addressing me? Or is this yet another example of one of your reversals, the same antimason DOUBLE STANDARD so often exhibited on this forum already?

Wayne, you are such a bad boy! 10/24/10

Mike isn't above it either:

"Members are required to attend all meetings, unless excused by the Worshipful Master, and then only with just cause." Obey yo massa boys! Yall betta do what massa say... (11/19/10)
Double standard once again, especially Mike, who ought to know better than to be perpetuating stereotypes to which he himself would be outraged if he were on the receiving end, as he did with that one.
 
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Rev Wayne

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And then you go on to note that the theories he advanced were wrong

No, that's a lie, I only said that ONE theory he had about the antiquity of Masonry was wrong. That has nothing to do with the theories that either you or Coil were seeking to criticize.

Pretty telling, that you have to slice and dice my comments to create accusations that are not there.

Actually I insist on cites, not links.

Another lie. From the Perfect Ashlar thread:

SS: BTW, do you still have the link to the magazine? I'd like to read it.

The "cite" had already been posted. That wasn't enough, you requested the link as well. So no, cites are not enough for you all the time.

Not the first time you got hung up on asking for links, either.

The ritual does not directly equate the Lion of the Tribe of Judah with Jesus

Yes it does. The name "Jesus" is not the only determinant for whether one is speaking of Jesus. There are SEVERAL key indications that cannot be taken any other way, especially the reference to the "Christian Dispensation."

Of course, you have your OWN dispensation, which means, in this instance, you dispense with the Christian Dispensation as readily as if you didn't even know what it was.

True enough, but when the website refers one directly to another webpage during a search action, that's conveying authority.

Wow, you used to call that "websurfing." DOUBLE STANDARD again.

I'm asserting that when the MI GL uses MSA sources to answer searches on their own web site, that source carries the weight of GL authority.

Still does not supersede their own ritual, which CANNOT be taken to be expressive of anything other than the "Christian Dispensation," as it notes.

Symbol of the Messiah, which can have different names for brethren of different religions. Judah was symbolized as a lion in his father's deathbed blessing. The lion was upon the standard of the large and powerful tribe of Judah. "Lion of the Tribe of Judah" was one of Solomon's titles. Christian interpretation of the phrase springs from Revelation (V: 5), "Behold the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book and to loose the seven seals thereof." The idea of a resurrection is curiously interwoven with the lion in all ages and was connected with resurrection long before the Man of Galilee walked upon the earth. In ancient Egypt, a lion raised Osiris from a dead level to a living perpendicular by a grip of his paw; Egyptian carvings show a figure standing behind the Altar, observing the raising of the dead, with its left arm raised, forming the angle of a square. The Lion of the Tribe of Judah, considered as signifying a coming redeemer who would spring from the tribe, or meaning the King of Israel who built the Temple, or symbolizing the Christ, must not be confused with a mode of recognition.
No WONDER you didn't want to post the link. Notice the highlighted portion, detailing what the "Christian interpretation" of it is, and where it springs from? Since the ritual CLEARLY states that their understanding of it is connected with the "Christian Dispensation," that means in Michigan, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah is Jesus Christ, as referred to in Rev. 5:5, and thus refutes your claims. Links to MSA pages do NOT supersede a Grand Lodge's Ritual Manual.

But hey, thanks for staying with me on this until I could find it. The notation in the MSA piece about what the Christian interpretation is, was just the cement that was needed to seal this thing, by detaiing for us what the Michigan ritual was saying with "Christian Dispensation."
 
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Skip, we know he is spiritually blind, but perhaps aging is gradually causing him to becoming physically blind as well. He posts this:

Wayne said:
Symbol of the Messiah, which can have different names for brethren of different religions. Judah was symbolized as a lion in his father's deathbed blessing. The lion was upon the standard of the large and powerful tribe of Judah. "Lion of the Tribe of Judah" was one of Solomon's titles. Christian interpretation of the phrase springs from Revelation (V: 5), "Behold the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book and to loose the seven seals thereof." The idea of a resurrection is curiously interwoven with the lion in all ages and was connected with resurrection long before the Man of Galilee walked upon the earth. In ancient Egypt, a lion raised Osiris from a dead level to a living perpendicular by a grip of his paw; Egyptian carvings show a figure standing behind the Altar, observing the raising of the dead, with its left arm raised, forming the angle of a square. The Lion of the Tribe of Judah, considered as signifying a coming redeemer who would spring from the tribe, or meaning the King of Israel who built the Temple, or symbolizing the Christ, must not be confused with a mode of recognition.

To which he responds with:

Wayne said:
No WONDER you didn't want to post the link. Notice the highlighted portion, detailing what the "Christian interpretation" of it is, and where it springs from?

Did he not see what you had already posted from the GL of MI website?

Skip said:
Symbol of the Messiah, which can have different names for brethren of different religions. Judah was symbolized as a lion in his father's deathbed blessing. The lion was upon the standard of the large and powerful tribe of Judah. "Lion of the Tribe of Judah" was one of Solomon's titles. Christian interpretation of the phrase springs from Revelation (V: 5), "Behold the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book and to loose the seven seals thereof." The idea of a resurrection is curiously interwoven with the lion in all ages and was connected with resurrection long before the Man of Galilee walked upon the earth. In ancient Egypt, a lion raised Osiris from a dead level to a living perpendicular by a grip of his paw; Egyptian carvings show a figure standing behind the Altar, observing the raising of the dead, with its left arm raised, forming the angle of a square. The Lion of the Tribe of Judah, considered as signifying a coming redeemer who would spring from the tribe, or meaning the King of Israel who built the Temple, or symbolizing the Christ, must not be confused with a mode of recognition. (MI GL website, 2011; derived from MSA Pocket Encyclopedia of Masonic Symbols)

It is exactly the same quote. I highlighted a different sentence, but you can clearly see the sentence he highlighted is there as well; but he sounds as if his emphasis of it made it suddenly appear for the first time.

If your search for the definition of "Lion of the Tribe of Judah" on their GL website revealed this answer, than it's abundantly clear from this citation that Lion of the Tribe of Judah is the "Symbol of the Messiah, which can have different names for brethren of different religions."

That is clearly their definition; the rest of it simply goes on to show a couple of examples, of which the Christian interpretation is one of them. And, ancient Egypt's Osiris is another.

This is purely consistent with what we've learned from other Grand Lodge's. All Masonic symbolism is opened, and welcomed, to be interpreted any way an individual Mason chooses to interpret them; which includes the "Lion of the Tribe of Judah." Freedom of choice as to the interpretation of Masonic symbols is one of the reasons for the growth (or lack thereof) of Freemasonry over the centuries.

The expression does not, of necessity, refer to Jesus of Nazareth, though the Christian Mason may so interpret the name if he desires. The Lion of the Tribe of Judah also describes the Messiah of the Jewish Mason or the mediator of some of the ancient religions of the East whose worshippers are Masons. Freedom of choice as to the application of these symbols is one of the reasons for the growth of Freemasonry over the centuries.

Mentor's Manual (Grand Lodge of Florida), page 24

This, I might add, it is one of the reasons I stopped practicing Freemasonry. My conviction about the truth of biblical symbolism is so strong; I do not want to be part of an organization that takes, and encourages, the liberty of interpreting them any other way but Christian.

To me, to remain a Mason and tolerate such freedom gives tacit credence to false gods; and gives tacit approval of the false beliefs of some of my Masonic brethren. As a result, remaining a Mason would have been a clear violation of the First Commandment.

As a Mason, I had no more power then, than Wayne has now, to remove the freedom of interpretation of Masonic symbolism; nor do we have the authority to limit them to Christian interpretations only. Therefore, if a "Christian" Mason can't "tear down the altar to Baal and the Asherah poles beside it" then he surely offends the God of the Bible by persisting in this idolatrous spiritual brotherhood called Freemasonry.
 
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