Differences in Religion

[Resha Caner]

For those religious positions that are not your own, do you think they are all the same or do you see differences between them?

Put another way, which positions do you think are only separated by subtle differences and which are separated by stark differences? Do you consider an atheist the same as agnostic? A Buddhist the same as a Hindu? A Christian the same as a Zoroastrian?

 

[Tinker Grey]

Since I am atheist I take the position that mine is neutral. That is, I find myself in the position of having propositions presented and evaluating them. As yet, I have not accepted any. (Or more biographically, since I left the faith I have no reason to return nor to accept any other non-christian religious position.)

This then is a fundamental difference: Atheists/agnostics haven't accepted a religious proposition; other religious positions have.

(If it'll avoid another tedious argument about whether I'm really an atheist, feel free to call me an agnostic.)

 

[Resha Caner]

First, I was including atheists/agnostics in the list of religious positions. I hope we don't have to argue the wording. If your position is to have no position, so be it.

Second, in this thread I don't really care what you call yourself. I'm asking more how you perceive others.

So would you say "all religions are the same," or do you see differences between some of them?

 

[Tinker Grey]

I don't mean to be argumentative. You can call atheism a position if you want. The position is that we don't accept religious propositions.

In the sense that all other positions accept a religious proposition, they are the same.

My personal attitude tends to reflect this. I am more personally invested in Christianity so my feelings are stronger. But when I attempt objectivity, I'd say they are the same.

 

[Jade Margery]

I mentally separate them into deific religions and spiritual religions. Religions that worship a specific god or gods go in one category, such a Christianity and Hinduism, while religions that worship abstract concepts or natural elements such as Wicca and Paganism are in another category. I find the latter category easier to get along with since the ones I have met are more focused on their own spiritual growth than proselytizing and forcing their beliefs on other people.

 

[AlexBP]

For those religious positions that are not your own, do you think they are all the same or do you see differences between them?

Put another way, which positions do you think are only separated by subtle differences and which are separated by stark differences? Do you consider an atheist the same as agnostic? A Buddhist the same as a Hindu? A Christian the same as a Zoroastrian?

My homeboy G. K. Chesterton wrote an enormous amount about various different religions and their beliefs. I wrote a post on my blog summarizing some of what he wrote. Here's a link to it:

Who is G. K. Chesterton? (Part 4) « The Blog that was Thursday

His basic underlying principle was that religions matter and that, if we want to understand people of different faiths, we need to understand what they actually believe. As he put it:

Our real error in such a case is that we do not know or care about the creed itself, from which a people’s customs, good or bad, will necessarily flow. We talk much about “respecting” this or that person’s religion; but the way to respect a religion is to treat it as a religion: to ask what are its tenets and what are their consequences. But modern tolerance is deafer than intolerance. The old religious authorities, at least, defined a heresy before they condemned it, and read a book before they burned it. But today we are always saying to a Mormon or a Muslim–”Never mind about your religion, come to my arms.” To which he naturally replies–”But I do mind about my religion, and I advise you to mind your eye.”
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When we look around the world, we can see vastly different societies. While some small differences may be explained in part by geography or weather patterns, the biggest differences must naturally arise from the way that people think in different places. Muslims believe that the Koran provides the one and only acceptable law for humanity, to which nothing can ever be added, removed, or changed in any way. If we understand that, we may be closer to understanding why no Muslim country has ever had a robust democratic government capable of making new laws.

Similarly, when we study history we see a great many events that don't make sense unless we understand the thinking of the people involved. When we study the Soviet Union and other countries that tried to implement Marxist doctrines, it makes no sense to us. To us it's obvious that you simply can't have a society when the government decides what everyone will do every minute of every day, because humans are not meant to live under such a crushing authority. But the Marxists earnestly believed that it had been proven that men and women were nothing more than mechanical systems working under deterministic laws. With that 'fact' established, it's not surprising that they made an economic system that treated men and women as machines. Indeed, it looks almost inevitable.

 

[Resha Caner]

Our real error in such a case is that we do not know or care about the creed itself, from which a people’s customs, good or bad, will necessarily flow. We talk much about “respecting” this or that person’s religion; but the way to respect a religion is to treat it as a religion: to ask what are its tenets and what are their consequences. But modern tolerance is deafer than intolerance. The old religious authorities, at least, defined a heresy before they condemned it, and read a book before they burned it. But today we are always saying to a Mormon or a Muslim–”Never mind about your religion, come to my arms.” To which he naturally replies–”But I do mind about my religion, and I advise you to mind your eye.”

I like the quote.

 

[Deaver]

...if we want to understand people of different faiths, we need to understand what they actually believe.

Very well said. There are so many religions out there, that it would be difficult to respond to the OP other than to say some are the same and some are different.

Here is a site where one can begin their study.

Religion, World Religions, Comparative Religion - Just the facts on the world's religions.

 

[quatona]

For those religious positions that are not your own, do you think they are all the same or do you see differences between them?

Put another way, which positions do you think are only separated by subtle differences and which are separated by stark differences? Do you consider an atheist the same as agnostic? A Buddhist the same as a Hindu? A Christian the same as a Zoroastrian?

I consider no two people the same.
As far as their religious positions go, I see more similarities between, say, some fundamentalist Christians and some fundamentalist Muslims than between believers of certain Christian denominations.

When it comes to atheism and agnosticism - these terms signify completely different aspects of worldviews. As far as I know most atheists are agnostic (just like most atheists eat meat); not even being a theist (or more specific a Christian) precludes you from being agnostic.

 

[KCfromNC]

For those religious positions that are not your own, do you think they are all the same or do you see differences between them?

Put another way, which positions do you think are only separated by subtle differences and which are separated by stark differences? Do you consider an atheist the same as agnostic?

Sometimes. Depends on whether the person is an atheist agnostic or not.

A Buddhist the same as a Hindu? A Christian the same as a Zoroastrian?

No. I don't even consider one Christian the same as any other. That's the fun of getting "knowledge" from personal subjective feelings ... it leads to all sorts of random beliefs and no two people end up with the same ones.

That being said, there are common themes which pop up from time to time.

 

[sandwiches]

For those religious positions that are not your own, do you think they are all the same or do you see differences between them?

Put another way, which positions do you think are only separated by subtle differences and which are separated by stark differences? Do you consider an atheist the same as agnostic? A Buddhist the same as a Hindu? A Christian the same as a Zoroastrian?

Well agnosticism and atheism are not religious positions but, as for the rest, I think differ greatly even within sects and from person to person.

 

[Resha Caner]

No. I don't even consider one Christian the same as any other. That's the fun of getting "knowledge" from personal subjective feelings ... it leads to all sorts of random beliefs and no two people end up with the same ones.

We could go several different directions based on the variety of replies, but I'll pick this one. I don't completely disagree with the above quote, but I think I am looking at the consequences a bit differently ... somewhat of a "means" and "end" type approach.

Suppose we ask a group of people why they are not standing near the edge of a cliff. One might reply that he fears the wind will blow him over the edge. Another might reply that he fears the edge is not stable and will give way. Yet another may fear that he will be jostled by the crowd and pushed over the edge. All believe different things about why the cliff is dangerous, but all share the belief that it is indeed a danger.

Further suppose that for some reason the person is forced to stand near the edge of the cliff even though they consider it a danger. Again, they may look to different means of remaining safe. One may ask a friend to hold on or to stand near. Another may ask for a safety harness. Yet another may ask to shore up the cliff or to build an observation deck that is rooted in a firm foundation. Again, it could be that they look for different means to protect themselves, but that they all look to the same person to do the protecting.

Maybe. Maybe not.

So, whether or not you consider the religious to be looking for unicorns and whether or not you consider atheism a religious position, what do you think are the different things people are looking for from taking that position and who or what do they expect to provide the answer?

 

[sandwiches]

We could go several different directions based on the variety of replies, but I'll pick this one. I don't completely disagree with the above quote, but I think I am looking at the consequences a bit differently ... somewhat of a "means" and "end" type approach.

Suppose we ask a group of people why they are not standing near the edge of a cliff. One might reply that he fears the wind will blow him over the edge. Another might reply that he fears the edge is not stable and will give way. Yet another may fear that he will be jostled by the crowd and pushed over the edge. All believe different things about why the cliff is dangerous, but all share the belief that it is indeed a danger.

Further suppose that for some reason the person is forced to stand near the edge of the cliff even though they consider it a danger. Again, they may look to different means of remaining safe. One may ask a friend to hold on or to stand near. Another may ask for a safety harness. Yet another may ask to shore up the cliff or to build an observation deck that is rooted in a firm foundation. Again, it could be that they look for different means to protect themselves, but that they all look to the same person to do the protecting.

Maybe. Maybe not.

So, whether or not you consider the religious to be looking for unicorns and whether or not you consider atheism a religious position, what do you think are the different things people are looking for from taking that position and who or what do they expect to provide the answer?

I don't think all people become religious for the same reasons. Some do it looking for answers: "Where will I go when I die?," "Should I lie?," "Is cheating wrong?," "Is there any meaning to my life?," et cetera.

Others look for comfort: "God will provide for us," "The angels are watching over my children," "My grandma is in Heaven now."

Others look for help: "I need a new car," "I wish my legs would start moving again," "I want to get rid of this cancer."

Others look for validation: "Eating pork is bad. It says so right here," "I lied but as long as I repented, I'm good," "My daughter shouldn't date that girl, this book tells me I'm right."

 

[Tinker Grey]

I suppose the answer is as varied as the persons under consideration.

I came to my position mostly because I searched for truth. And the truth was that I had no evidence for my beliefs. Therefore I abandoned them. (Actually, in some sense I came to realize I didn't believe ... but that is a different discussion.)

I am content to believe that many people adopt religious positions because of a search for the truth.

There are some of both camps, atheists and theists, who were reared as such and have never given consideration to their positions.

There are some of both camps who adopt their positions to fit in with a group they find desirable.

For those of us who are looking for truth, I suspect that atheists/agnostics have faced the idea that some things have no answer or that we may never know that answer ... but if there is an answer to be found, it is in a careful examination of that which may be examined. Theists, OTOH, might suppose that they can never know but come to contentment because the being they worship knows it all -- knowledge/answers by proxy, perhaps.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I think eveyone has a unique perspective.

 

[AlexBP]

I like the quote.

Here's a link to the entire essay form which the quote comes:

Chesterton on Mormonism and religious belief « Defensor Veritatis

 

[Resha Caner]

OK, some interesting thoughts on how we view others. So, now, what would you say is the one thing that others misunderstand most about your position?

P.S. Thanks for the reference, Alex. Though I've known of Chesteron for some time, I've never read his work. I have a few books on my Christmas list, though.

 

[quatona]

OK, some interesting thoughts on how we view others. So, now, what would you say is the one thing that others misunderstand most about your position?

That they consider it a position, in the first place.
That they think my lack of belief is of any significance for me.

 

[Resha Caner]

That they consider it a position, in the first place.

Might it be because "nature abhors a vacuum?" I'm always reminded of Freewill by Rush, and especially the line, "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." So, from my perspective, there is a void there to be filled and it must be filled by something.

So, I understand how one can ratchet into the mindset that it isn't a position, but it still seems to me that is not quite the right wording for it.

Since I'm looking to fill the void, I could accept a variety of answers such as "I have no opinion," or "I haven't made a conclusion," but "I have no position" sounds like denial. It seems it would require proof positive that there is no void, and I don't see how that is possible.

So, yeah, if, after what I said, you still insist you have no position, I don't understand that.

It might be akin to what I think those who differ from me most misunderstand, and that regards the request I often get to "define God." From my perspective, any statement that begins, "I think God is ..." is automatically wrong. Rather, as for any person, the statement must begin "He/she said he/she is ..."

So, it seems we both feel we're asked a question that doesn't make sense.

 

[KCfromNC]

So, whether or not you consider the religious to be looking for unicorns and whether or not you consider atheism a religious position, what do you think are the different things people are looking for from taking that position and who or what do they expect to provide the answer?

What position do you mean, exactly?

If you mean why are they looking for answers, it's probably because they have questions. How they find those answers depends on the person in question. Could be through logic and reason, tradition, observation of the natural world, feelings, or many other ways.