What About You....... ARE YOU SURE?

[11822]

well, you sure are a better lot than i've seen on here before with your attitude . so i can be thankful for that .

You told me to impale myself.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

You told me to impale myself.

no . that is not what i said .

i said i would let you impale yourself .

because the way you're playing with that sword it's bound to happen eventually .

 

[cubinity]

What mosaic law? I only refer to the law given by Jesus and the apostles. Some of it just happens to come from mosaic law.

I have just been reviewing this dialogue, and this is the most fascinating statement to me, "...the law given by Jesus..." I wasn't aware that Jesus was a law maker. In fact, I consider myself fairly familiar with the Gospels, and I don't recall a single law ever being issued by the guy. Mind elaborating on what laws you think Jesus issued? Thanks.

 

[11822]

I have just been reviewing this dialogue, and this is the most fascinating statement to me, "...the law given by Jesus..." I wasn't aware that Jesus was a law maker. In fact, I consider myself fairly familiar with the Gospels, and I don't recall a single law ever being issued by the guy. Mind elaborating on what laws you think Jesus issued? Thanks.

He taught many things and His apostles reiterate them for us. Love God with all your heart, abstain from from fornication, adultery and idolatry. Love thy neighbor according to the Golden rule and according to the scriptures. Forgive and you will be forgiven, judge and condemn not. And any other thing thats Gods will that i may not have listed.. Not much to it really.

 

[cubinity]

He taught many things and His apostles reiterate them for us. Love God with all your heart, abstain from from fornication, adultery and idolatry. Love thy neighbor according to the Golden rule and according to the scriptures. Forgive and you will be forgiven, judge and condemn not. And any other thing thats Gods will that i may not have listed.. Not much to it really.

But to call these "laws?"
Hardly an accurate description, IMO.

 

[11822]

But to call these "laws?"
Hardly an accurate description, IMO.

Actually they are rules of law governing holiness, love and Gods will for us. They are not suggestions they're are commandments.


Lu 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Mt 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mt 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses

Mt 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

1Co 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication

Mt 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

1Co 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: 7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. 9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

 

[cubinity]

Actually they are rules of law governing holiness, love and Gods will for us. They are not suggestions they're are commandments.


Lu 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Mt 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mt 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses

Mt 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

1Co 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication

Mt 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

1Co 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: 7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. 9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

I'm all far the stuff you've underlined and quoted, and I agree they are more than suggestions. However, is that all there is? Suggestion and law?

It seems as though you're only considering this on a legislative level. If he was posting speed signs, for example, that countless strangers would read and potentially follow, the signs would either be limits on behavior (laws), or suggested behavior that isn't enforceable.

Sure, on a legislative level, I get that contrast.

However, this isn't a legislator talking to the public. This is a friend speaking into the lives of those He passionately loves.

No, I still would not say that "law" is not the right word to describe what Jesus is saying.

 

[11822]

I'm all far the stuff you've underlined and quoted, and I agree they are more than suggestions. However, is that all there is? Suggestion and law?

It seems as though you're only considering this on a legislative level. If he was posting speed signs, for example, that countless strangers would read and potentially follow, the signs would either be limits on behavior (laws), or suggested behavior that isn't enforceable.

Sure, on a legislative level, I get that contrast.

However, this isn't a legislator talking to the public. This is a friend speaking into the lives of those He passionately loves.

No, I still would not say that "law" is not the right word to describe what Jesus is saying.

Lets call it Gods will.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life

 

[cubinity]

Lets call it Gods will.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life

I am happy to call it God's will.

However, "law" and "God's will" have contrasted connotative meanings, just as "odor" and "aroma" do.

Thus, I will agree to acknowledge with you that Jesus and the apostles taught their loved one's God's will, but I will not call them legislators who issued law.

Sound reasonable?

 

[eachallberg]

What does "Salvation" mean (in the Bible)
Are you saved?
Are you being saved?
Were you saved?


Are you sure?

This thread is really about the ASSURANCE (or lack thereof) of salvation,
but I am cool with digging into anything to do with salvation really!




Let it be a blessing to the body of Christ.

Are you saved? I am.

I am happy to call it God's will.

However, "law" and "God's will" have contrasted connotative meanings, just as "odor" and "aroma" do.

Thus, I will agree to acknowledge with you that Jesus and the apostles taught their loved one's God's will, but I will not call them legislators who issued law."

Paul came at Peter for doing such a thing (circumcision).

Odor and aroma are the same.

Sound reasonable?"

No.

Peace.

 

[11822]

I am happy to call it God's will.

However, "law" and "God's will" have contrasted connotative meanings, just as "odor" and "aroma" do.

Thus, I will agree to acknowledge with you that Jesus and the apostles taught their loved one's God's will, but I will not call them legislators who issued law.

Sound reasonable?

OK.

 

[visionary]

Actually, I didn't figure this out without the Church. The bible says it, the Church confirms it. Without the Church, all we'd really have is the opinions of men. Something not to be trusted, even by the protestants own confession.

Really..
‎"[Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:17

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning." John 15:26-27

‎"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." John 16:13

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

If i left it up to the church that i was raised in, i would be condemning musical instruments in Church. Im not sure that instruments are forbidden. I dont judge those that do forbid musical instruments in church, but i myself reject the idea. Am i a liberal? Heck no.

I just happen to have a thread on that

http://www.christianforums.com/t7515841-2/#post56185900
Music/Instruments in church worship today question [poll thread]

Reve 18:22 and sound/voice of lyrers/harpists and of musicians and of flutists/aulhtwn <834> and of trumpeters not no should be being heard in Thee still.
And every craftsman/artificer of every craft not no may be being found in Thee still. And sound of a millstone not no should be being heard in Thee still.

MUSIC IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
&#12288;
*snip*
.....However, after the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D., the Jews forbade the use of instruments in worship. "As long as the Judaeo-Christians remained one of the Jewish sects, they continued the musical traditional of their forefathers."
Again, "How far Judaism's prohibition of all instrumental music used shortly after the destruction of the temple had influenced the cause of events, is hard to determine.......

 

[tadoflamb]

Really..
&#8206;"[Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:17

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning." John 15:26-27

&#8206;"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." John 16:13

Nice verses. We heard them in the Visible Church in the weeks preceding Pentecost and they certainly do instill a sense of confidence and peace.

The problem you have is, every person who has come in here with the presumption to teach, has also used the same verses to somehow bolster the legitimacy of their authority. Yet, these same self-proclaimed teachers often times have disparate beliefs and practices. So, who am I to believe? Is this really consistent with the promises of Christ? Was this sort of confusion promised to the Church? I don't think so.

See, I read my bible too. I too have been given the promises the Spirit of Truth. When persons who find themselves outside, opposed to, and in lieu of the One True Church which has the authority to teach, attempt to preach to me a gospel other than the one I have received from the apostles, naturally I receive them with no small amount of skepticism. It's what the bible tells me to do.

 

[visionary]

Nice verses. We heard them in the Visible Church in the weeks preceding Pentecost and they certainly do instill a sense of confidence and peace.

The problem you have is, every person who has come in here with the presumption to teach, has also used the same verses to somehow bolster the legitimacy of their authority. Yet, these same self-proclaimed teachers often times have disparate beliefs and practices. So, who am I to believe? Is this really consistent with the promises of Christ? Was this sort of confusion promised to the Church? I don't think so.

See, I read my bible too. I too have been given the promises the Spirit of Truth. When persons who find themselves outside, opposed to, and in lieu of the One True Church which has the authority to teach, attempt to preach to me a gospel other than the one I have received from the apostles, naturally I receive them with no small amount of skepticism. It's what the bible tells me to do.

This is where "know" Him becoming increasingly important.. or how else are you going to be able to distinguish.. Meet with God and ask Him for the gift of discernment.. that will help a lot in clarify whose who.. which is what those verses are really saying.

 

[visionary]

Nice verses. We heard them in the Visible Church in the weeks preceding Pentecost and they certainly do instill a sense of confidence and peace.

The problem you have is, every person who has come in here with the presumption to teach, has also used the same verses to somehow bolster the legitimacy of their authority. Yet, these same self-proclaimed teachers often times have disparate beliefs and practices. So, who am I to believe? Is this really consistent with the promises of Christ? Was this sort of confusion promised to the Church? I don't think so.

See, I read my bible too. I too have been given the promises the Spirit of Truth. When persons who find themselves outside, opposed to, and in lieu of the One True Church which has the authority to teach, attempt to preach to me a gospel other than the one I have received from the apostles, naturally I receive them with no small amount of skepticism. It's what the bible tells me to do.

Let Him continue to lead you into all truth... even if it is away from the crowd..

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Let Him continue to lead you into all truth... even if it is away from the crowd..

That brings to mind this verse

2 Corin 6 and the "them" question - Christian Forums
2 Corin 6 and the "them" question

2 Corin 6:17 wherefore come-forth out of midst of them! and be being separated! is saying Lord
and an unclean-thing no ye be touching! and I shall be accepting ye

Revelation 18:4 And I hear another voice out of the heaven saying "come forth! out of Her the people of Me......................

 

[tadoflamb]

This is where "know" Him becoming increasingly important.. or how else are you going to be able to distinguish.. Meet with God and ask Him for the gift of discernment.. that will help a lot in clarify whose who.. which is what those verses are really saying.

It was about 9 years ago almost to the day when I surrendered my life to Christ. Scared and confused by the fog of denominationalism, my earliest prayer was to "Let me know Jesus the way He wanted to be known." Wouldn't you know it, I was immediately led to the altars of the Catholic Church where I have found my home. (see my siggie) God has given me the gift of discernment, that's how I ended up in the One True Church. From there, it's easy to clarify who is who and what is the authentic interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures. Like I said, in the absence of a Church to teach infallibly, all you really have is a person, a bible and an opinion. Not really enough to abandon what God has abundantly laid upon me.

 

[sunlover1]

Like I said, in the absence of a Church to teach infallibly, all you really have is a person, a bible and an opinion.

You left out the main ingredient for success in understanding Scripture
and so I can understand why you come to such a conclusion.

 

[tadoflamb]

Let Him continue to lead you into all truth... even if it is away from the crowd..

Thanks, I will. But why are you seemingly trying to draw me out of the Church and instill doubt into my mind? If I'm not mistaken, I do believe I'm discerning a spirit of dissent and not the Spirit of Truth.