Cool, communiction goes two ways, that's how we can understand the point of view of others.
We dont have to agree but hopefully we can understand each other.
Are you saying we should not consider that the Epistles were written as complete letters primarily to Gentile churches? These letters claim to contain the only doctrines and ordinance of the Church.
You've said a lot, about obedience to the law. You mention Adam, Cain, Abram's wife, Joseph, Potipher, Pharoah, Moses, you attached the ten commandments in colorful 3D, all to make points about the ten commandments coming befor Sinai.......... You did start out in reply to my comments of your Gal 3:29 and 28 posting when you said, I misunderstand SDA possition about Gentiles.
In time you'll get the hang of how to use the tools and other formats to dialog. It's hard for me to respond to all you've said. It will take me days to respond to your original posts I'm responding too. We all have to consider what's a reasonable exchange before posting or it'll be chaos.
Welcome.
"Obedience to the law"? Perhaps it is
more fully understood as being obedience to Christ Jesus, loving Him by keeping His Commandments as He has asked.
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15, which Jesus quoted directly from the Ten Commandments from
Exodus 20:6.
What Commandments shall we think He means?
For the Gospel of John clearly reveals that Jesus is God [the Son], John 1:1-3, etc. It was His voice that gave the Ten Commandments, His Finger that wrote them.
Of course people will simply say of those commandments, "It means love God and love neighbour."
How so? How does one then love? "God and Neighbour" How did Christ Jesus Himself Love us and the Father? To simply say "love" means nothing, since it then has behind it no definition, no substance, no tangible reality. It is just an empty word, but when Christ Jesus uses it, it is another matter entirely, having complete substance, reality and totality. When Christ Jesus says, "
...love me and keep my commandments..." the two are then related.
To simply say, "love", without any definition of the word, or meaning is to then empty the phrase of all meaning. It is said, "Well we should "love God"". How so? How do you Love God? Then it is said, "Well we should "love neighbour"". How so? How do you love your neighbour? What is the criteria for the word "love"? Further said, "Well we should "love them by loving them""... and yet nothing has been said by saying that, since there is no substance to the words.
As Paul says,
Owe no man any thing, but to
love one another: for
he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. Romans 13:8
For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;
and if [there be] any other commandment, it is
briefly comprehended in this saying, namely,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Romans 13:9
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore
love [is] the fulfilling of the law. Romans 13:10
What Law was Paul talking about?
The very same Ten Commandments, but he is merely quoting the latter 6 in regards to Neighbour, for it is obvious that the first 4 are also to be kept in regards to the love of God:
What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay,
I had not known sin, but by the law: for I
had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. Romans 7:7
and again Paul says,
That the
righteousness of the law might be
fulfilled in us, who
walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4
Ask yourself, did Jesus walk after the Flesh or Spirit? Did He fulfill the Law and Righteousness even unto death?
How does John speak?
By this we know that
we love the children of God, when
we love God, and keep his commandments. 1 John 5:2
To love our brothers and neighbours, requires love to God by keeping His Commandments. This is the definition in loving our neighbour as ourself.
For
this is the love of God, that
we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 1 John 5:3
To love God is to keep His Commandments. Which God then is served? Which God is obeyed? Which Commandments does this God have to be obeyed?
The responses are given in such a manner so as to highlight those portions for easier connections. Colour is used to specifically delineate between various aspects. I have tried to accomodate others by reducing the amount of colour used.
Anyone may take as long as they need to respond, and as many posts as they need to do so. I do not mind reading a lengthy post, or responding to one.
The responses are steeped in evidence from scripture and the references are clearly given so that anyone may test the spirit by which I write. No one has to take my word for anything [in fact, please do not], go to the scriptures, and see for themselves, which is why the many citings are there.
Love neighbour...
Shall I dishonour my father and mother, is this love?
Shall I murder him, is this love?
Shall I commit adultery with them, is this love?
Shall I steal from him, is this love?
Shall I bear false witness against him, is this love?
Shall I covet all that they have, is this love?
Did Christ Jesus do any of those things? How did He then fulfill the Royal Law?
Love God...
Is this word "love" some "emotionally" empty word or does it have substance to it? How shall I love Him? What does my God require of me? [Micah 6:8] How shall I walk with Him? What Commandments are involved in so loving Him?
Shall I have another God besides Him, is that loving Him?
Shall I make graven images of those things in Heaven, earth or sea and bow myself down unto them, is that loving Him?
Shall I take His name in vain, doing all manner of what I want apart from what He wants, is that Loving Him?
Shall I break His 7th Day Sabbath rest by doing my will instead on that day, or shall I choose another day apart from the day He has set and make it my own, shall I set up my own righteousness, is that loving Him?
We should not let satan deceive us so readily by allowing him to bait and switch the word "love", with a definition of his own making which empties it of all meaning. Satan would allow us to say that "we love God", and not obey His commandments, for satan so knows that is not really then love of God.
How did Jesus define it?
And why
call ye me, Lord, Lord, and
do not the things which I say? Luke 6:46
Whose Lord is ours then if we "do not the things which" He [Jesus] says?
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey,
his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of
sin unto death, or of
obedience unto righteousness? Romans 6:6
"No man can serve two masters..." Matthew 6:24
Please consider these things Cribstyl. Look at those texts...what do they say?
Why bother with 9/10ths [James 2:10] of the Commandments if all one is going to do is simply ignore the one Commandment that defines who gave the rest? The 4th Commandment contains God's name [LORD, YHWH], it contains who He is [made, Creator], and it contains that which is His [Heaven, Earth, Sea an all that in them is; Everything is His]. If that Commandment is not to be obeyed, then none of them are.
Many will say my God is "the LORD" [YHWH]. Really? Which one?
Many will say, "the Creator LORD". Really? Which one?
Many will say, "the Creator LORD who made all things". Really? Which one?
Many will say, "The Creator LORD who made all things in 6 days and rested the 7th". Really? Why then do you not obey Him in the one Commandment that reveals this?
Many will say, "Well He has given us a new day". Really? Where is this Commandment? Where is the Commandment to disregard the original day of His?
People will often say. "I love God and therefore I do not murder, steal, commit adultery, take His name in vain, worship idols, I honour my father and mother...", and so on and so forth...
Is that salvation by works? Is that salvation by Law? Of course they will immediately say, "No."
Why then should the 4th commandment receive such stigma then as being "salvation by works, by law or by sabbath?"
There is only one reason. Satan hates God's Law. Satan knows that it will not matter if a person say they love God and obey God in every aspect, but one. Satan is so deceptive, he will even promote people to keep the Sabbath exactly as the commandment says, but with one tiny exception...just on a different day, not the Day God Chose, Sanctified, Blessed and Hallowed, no, no, says Satan, keep that commandment on another day, a day, that satan has chosen as his own... If they knowingly refuse God in that one specific area, how shall then they enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, where it is the pleasure, joy and delight to obey and do His will?
Look at the New Heavens and the New Earth:
And
it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and
from one sabbath to another, shall
all flesh come to
worship before me, saith the LORD. Isaiah 66:23
[new moon reference, see Rev. 22:2]
Satan works in deception, and has been honing his skills for 6000 years:
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that,
if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Mathew 24:24
Who are the elect? Who is the Dragon [Satan] striving in all war against?
And the
dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with
the remnant of her seed, which
keep the commandments of God, and
have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:17
Here is the
patience of the saints: here [are]
they that keep the commandments of God, and
the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12
Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that
they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Revelation 22:14
Cribstyl, look at them. Do you not want to be in that number when the saints go marching in?
You have followed God this far, and have accepted Jesus Christ as Saviour, why not accept Him then as your Lord, God and King, and keep His Commandments, and show your faith in Him and His work in you, by honouring Him in the 4th Commandment? Show your Faith in Him as your Creator/Redeemer and Friend, by resting with Him...
...you will find that satan will turn all he has against you, all fury... he will turn your friends, your family, your co-workers, your pastor, etc against you...to dissuade you...
...how many chances do we get...I do not know...now...today! as it is said, is the day of salvation...do not wait!
...but come out and be ye separate from them who have chosen not to do so. Step out in Faith, He [Jesus Christ] will hold you up. He has me.
Will you make a stand for Christ Jesus this day and choose to keep His Sabbath this weekend?
Will be praying for you [and any] to choose to follow Christ wheresoever He goes.