Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments? (3)

[Hentenza]

1 Corinthians 11:1(NKJV)
1Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.

Yep.

Luke 4:16(NKJV)
16So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.

Yep. Jesus was a Jew and kept the law perfectly.

Acts 17:2(NKJV)
2Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

Paul wanted to reach Jews so he went where they gathered. Logical.

Acts 13:42(NKJV)
42So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

seems to me, the gentiles could have requested any other day to meet, but they requested the next sabbath! also, here is a chance for the apostle paul to clear up whether or not the sabbath was still binding and in fact, establish sunday as the new worship day.

I disagree with the NKJV translation since the verse in the Greek does not contain the word "gentiles". It seems that the NKJV rendition is interpretational rather than exegetical. Verse 43 tells you that the "people" were the Jews and God fearing proselytes. There is no mention of gentiles until they meet next Sabbath and the whole city was there which would imply gentiles (verse 44). They met on a Sabbath merely because logistically that is the day where the Jews met not because the gentiles begged them. BTW- Did you know that the Sabbath was initially a day of rest not a day to attend the synagogue?

it's strange that paul doesn't on this occassion say, we no longer have to keep the sabbath, nor does he establish sunday, but rather:

Acts 13:44(NKJV)
44On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

See above. And I will add Acts 20:7- "On (V)the first day of the week, when (W)we were gathered together to (X)break bread.............". This is the day that the early church met not on the 7th day.

so, you guys keep your blinders on and act like verses like these aren't in the bible!

The verses are in the bible. No blinders.

 

[11822]

and i'll tell you to keep looking for it.

like they say, "wait for it"!

yep

 

[Hentenza]

but what did God cleanse?

if one reads further in the text one would find the answer and it wasn't food.

Acts 10:28(NKJV)
28Then he said to them, “You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

now, i ask, is this verse speaking of food?

So you are going to go forward and remove the context? Peter's vision IS about food. Peter was hungry after all.

 

[Hentenza]

and i'll tell you to keep looking for it.

like they say, "wait for it"!

 

[JohnRabbit]

So you are going to go forward and remove the context? Peter's vision IS about food. Peter was hungry after all.

so, why does he say what he did in verse 28?

 

[Hentenza]

LOL Man why do I bother

How is it that when one word totally proves something to be the opposite of what you believe it doesn't hold water, but when it supports it you get all linguistic

The word used by Paul is commonly used to talk about ceremonial cleanliness. How does it change suddenly when it comes to this text?

Because Paul is talking about food here not about ceremonial food. Limiting the teaching to ceremonial food would be an importation to the text.

 

[11822]

Therefore we must conclude based on the evidence, that indeed paul does teach the 5th commandment and its promise and so its still a commandment.

 

[Hentenza]

so, why does he say what he did in verse 28?

Because there is also teaching about not calling gentiles unclean and eating with them. The food that he would eat with the gentiles was not unclean as he was taught from the law. Remember, Paul later rebukes Peter about that very thing.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Yep.



Yep. Jesus was a Jew and kept the law perfectly.




Paul wanted to reach Jews so he went where they gathered. Logical.




I disagree with the NKJV translation since the verse in the Greek does not contain the word "gentiles". It seems that the NKJV rendition is interpretational rather than exegetical. Verse 43 tells you that the "people" were the Jews and God fearing proselytes. There is no mention of gentiles until they meet next Sabbath and the whole city was there which would imply gentiles (verse 44). They met on a Sabbath merely because logistically that is the day where the Jews met not because the gentiles begged them. BTW- Did you know that the Sabbath was initially a day of rest not a day to attend the synagogue?



See above. And I will add Acts 20:7- "On (V)the first day of the week, when (W)we were gathered together to (X)break bread.............". This is the day that the early church met not on the 7th day.




The verses are in the bible. No blinders.

paul was an apostle to the gentiles, yet he went looking for the jews? yes, that totally makes sense. not only is it a wrong assessment, but i goes against what the bible says of paul's role (gal 2:7).

here's the greek word for gentile in acts 13:42

G1484 ἔθνος

ethnos eth'-nos
Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan):—Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

and i don't know where you get your information, but God commanded an assembly on the sabbath from jump street!

Exodus 12:16(NKJV)
16On the first day there shall be a holy convocation, and on the seventh day there shall be a holy convocation for you. No manner of work shall be done on them; but that which everyone must eat—that only may be prepared by you.

 

[Stryder06]

Because Paul is talking about food here not about ceremonial food. Limiting the teaching to ceremonial food would be an importation to the text.

No no no no no my brother. I wasn't talking about ceremonial food either. What we do know is that there was an issue with people in regards to clean foods that had been used in offering to idols.

Did you read the link I posted?

Anywho, Paul was saying that just because certain meats (which isn't even used in the original text, but it's implied) were offered to idols, that didn't make them unclean. So for example, if deer meat was being offered to idols that didn't make deer meat unclean (koinos). It would still be ok to eat some venison. However, if your conscience was against it, that was fine. Again, compare that to Peter who spoke about not eating anything koinos or akatharto. There's an obvious difference there my friend.

 

[Hentenza]

paul was an apostle to the gentiles, yet he went looking for the jews? yes, that totally makes sense. not only is it a wrong assessment, but i goes against what the bible says of paul's role (gal 2:7).

And yet, Paul witnessed to Jews also. Do you deny this?

here's the greek word for gentile in acts 13:42

G1484 ἔθνος

ethnos eth'-nos
Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan):—Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

Here is the Greek.

Ἐξιόντων δὲ αὐτῶν παρεκάλουν εἰς τὸ μεταξὺ σάββατον λαληθῆναι αὐτοῖς τὰ ῥήματα ταῦτα.

Do you see ἔθνος anywhere?

and i don't know where you get your information, but God commanded an assembly on the sabbath from jump street!

Exodus 12:16(NKJV)
16On the first day there shall be a holy convocation, and on the seventh day there shall be a holy convocation for you. No manner of work shall be done on them; but that which everyone must eat—that only may be prepared by you.

This is talking about the feast of unleaven bread not about the weekly Sabbath.

 

[Hentenza]

No no no no no my brother. I wasn't talking about ceremonial food either. What we do know is that there was an issue with people in regards to clean foods that had been used in offering to idols.

This is not what Paul is talking about in Romans 14. There is no reference to idol foods here.

 

[JohnRabbit]

And yet, Paul witnessed to Jews also. Do you deny this?


Here is the Greek.

Ἐξιόντων δὲ αὐτῶν παρεκάλουν εἰς τὸ μεταξὺ σάββατον λαληθῆναι αὐτοῖς τὰ ῥήματα ταῦτα.

Do you see ἔθνος anywhere?




This is talking about the feast of unleaven bread not about the weekly Sabbath.

the instruction on the sabbath is clear, whether if falls on the weekly or a festival!

 

[Hentenza]

the instruction on the sabbath is clear, whether if falls on the weekly or a festival!

No is not. The context is ONLY of the festival not of the weekly Sabbath. You can't claim what is not there.

 

[JohnRabbit]

No is not. The context is ONLY of the festival not of the weekly Sabbath. You can't claim what is not there.

i can, however, claim what the bible says:

Leviticus 23:3(NKJV)
3‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

like i said, the instruction is clear about the sabbath!

it's the same instruction on the weekly as the festival!

just like you said paul went to the synagogue looking for jews, yet the bible said it was his custom, and on top of the fact, that he was an apostle to the gentiles!

again, where do you get your information?

 

[Hentenza]

i can, however, claim what the bible says:

Leviticus 23:3(NKJV)
3‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

like i said, the instruction is clear about the sabbath!

it's the same instruction on the weekly as the festival!

again, where do you get your information?

A holy convocation in all their dwellings? Mmmm........ Holy meetings for edification were held on the Sabbath in every place in the land, and it was out of this that the synagogues arose. There is no command of organized corporate worship on the Sabbath.

 

[JohnRabbit]

A holy convocation in all their dwellings? Mmmm........ Holy meetings for edification were held on the Sabbath in every place in the land, and it was out of this that the synagogues arose. There is no command of organized corporate worship on the Sabbath.

what do you think convocation means?

con·vo·ca·tion   
[kon-vuh-key-shuhn] (from dictionary.com)
–noun
1.
the act of convoking.
2.
the state of being convoked.
3.
a group of people gathered in answer to a summons; assembly.

geesh! i gotta go to work.

 

[11822]

This is not what Paul is talking about in Romans 14. There is no reference to idol foods here.

Paul does condemn eating food sacrificed to idols in Romans 14 but he does elsewhere.



Ac 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Ac 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well

1Co 10:19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
1Co 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
1Co 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
1Co 10:22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
1Co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.


1Co 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

 

[Hentenza]

what do you think convocation means?

con·vo·ca·tion   
[kon-vuh-key-shuhn] (from dictionary.com)
–noun
1.
the act of convoking.
2.
the state of being convoked.
3.
a group of people gathered in answer to a summons; assembly.

It is in "all your dwellings" because the assembly was not corporate. Again, no corporate worship on the Sabbath is prescribed in scripture.

Even today those that drive to a synagogue on Saturday are braking the Sabbath since no lightning of fires is permitted (Ex. 35:3).

geesh! i gotta go to work.

Have a nice day at work.

 

[Hentenza]

Paul does condemn eating food sacrificed to idols in Romans 14 but he does elsewhere.



Ac 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Ac 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well

1Co 10:19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
1Co 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
1Co 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
1Co 10:22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
1Co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.


1Co 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

Again, there is nothing in Romans 14 to suggest that Paul was talking about idol foods. None. This is a different matter apart from what Paul taught in Romans 14.

BTW- Even in 1 Cor. 10:23 Paul teaches that all things are lawful to him but not all things are profitable. This, again, reinforces Paul teaching that all foods are clean but that some are not profitable. For instance, eating hamburgers is fine but not exactly good for you. lol