Can a TRUE narcissist and/or bigot be a TRUE Christian?

[pinkputter]

if any of you know a narcissist or a bigot, how do you think their relationship with God is? all you have to do is meet enough of them to know that:

(1) has a grandiose sense of the importance of their own race, orientation, belief system (whether religious, political, philosophical, etc.), socio-economic group, etc. (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements).

(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, etc. of their own race, orientation, belief system, socio-economic class, etc. OR preoccupied with with the ultimate beauty or admiration or widespread sense of righeteousness of the same.

(3) believes that their race, orientation, belief system, socio-economic class, etc. is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with people of similar backgrounds or belief systems (or institutions).

(4) requires from others an excessive admiration from others about their own race, sexual orientation, belief system, socio-economic class, etc.

(5) has a sense of entitlement for their own race, orientation, belief system, socio-economic class, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her group’s expectations.

(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others who do not belong to their race, orientation, belief system, socio-economic class, etc. (especially those less acceptable to their social group) to achieve his or her own ends.

(7) lacks empathy towards others who are not part of their race, sexual orientation, belief system, socio-economic class, etc. (i.e., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of those outside their own or preferred group(s)).

(8) is often envious of those of a different race, sexual orientation, belief system, socio-economic class, etc. others or believes that others are envious of him or her.

(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes toward those of a different race, sexual orientation, belief system, socio-economic class, etc.

Is it possible to have the Spirit of the Father living within us with the above description? Are these people true Christians when they display those ideals of how they live their life?

There are lots of narcissists/bigots who claim Christianity, but due to their personality, unfortunately are wrapped up in worldly standards instead of the standards God has for us.

How do you think God views narcissists/bigots?

It's my personal belief that "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

There are no ands ifs or buts to that statement. This includes everyone. (see my sig.) This is the very reason Jesus died, and if we make exceptions, this depreciates His sacrifice.

However, I also believe with all of my heart other parts of the Bible where it specifically states that we reap what we sow. "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life."

Narcissism is just a fleshly tendency to elevate yourself above others. If we follow this fleshly tendency its impossible to follow the Spirit at the same time.

What do you think? This is what we deal with, living in the world.
But, like CS Lewis says, if you aim for heaven, you get the world thrown in. If you aim for the world, you get neither.

 

[Faulty]

Someone born again will grow to be more Christ-like as time goes on, bust some will be faster or slower than others, but there will be growth.

If there is never any growth at all, there's no reason to call them a Christian in the first place.

 

[pinkputter]

Someone born again will grow to be more Christ-like as time goes on, bust some will be faster or slower than others, but there will be growth.

If there is never any growth at all, there's no reason to call them a Christian in the first place.

yup

 

[Tobias]

God doesn't reject anybody based upon how broken they are when they find Him. The Church however, will reject many because they are unwilling or unable to be as patient as God is when it comes to waiting for visible improvement in the person's life.

 

[pinkputter]

God doesn't reject anybody based upon how broken they are when they find Him. The Church however, will reject many because they are unwilling or unable to be as patient as God is when it comes to waiting for visible improvement in the person's life.

Well maybe the Church, however, shouldn't. I don't know what church youre going to, but I would find another if that was going on

 

[pinkputter]

If narcissists weren't getting a benefit from their beliefs, no matter how destructive, I think a lot more would change a lot faster. However, their relationship with God's got to be number 1 for that to happen

 

[pdudgeon]

your Op described very well a person i knew for several years.....but she was a Jew, and did not want to hear anything at all about Christ or Christians. She was adamat about it, to the point of leaving the room if it came up in general conversation.

i've never met another person who was like that.

 

[thesunisout]

Any Christian displaying such attitudes are receiving the spirit of the world more than they are the Spirit of God. Someone who knows God is humble before Him, and follows His commands..such as love thy neighbor as yourself. Anyone loving their neighbor wouldn't elevate themselves above their neighbor.

Think about this way..what is the worlds worst sin? It's pride, which is the sin of the devil. These prideful attitudes that you're talking about all resemble the devils sin..so when you see these attitudes in Christians you know they are probably serving two masters.

if any of you know a narcissist or a bigot, how do you think their relationship with God is? all you have to do is meet enough of them to know that:

(1) has a grandiose sense of the importance of their own race, orientation, belief system (whether religious, political, philosophical, etc.), socio-economic group, etc. (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements).

(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, etc. of their own race, orientation, belief system, socio-economic class, etc. OR preoccupied with with the ultimate beauty or admiration or widespread sense of righeteousness of the same.

(3) believes that their race, orientation, belief system, socio-economic class, etc. is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with people of similar backgrounds or belief systems (or institutions).

(4) requires from others an excessive admiration from others about their own race, sexual orientation, belief system, socio-economic class, etc.

(5) has a sense of entitlement for their own race, orientation, belief system, socio-economic class, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her group’s expectations.

(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others who do not belong to their race, orientation, belief system, socio-economic class, etc. (especially those less acceptable to their social group) to achieve his or her own ends.

(7) lacks empathy towards others who are not part of their race, sexual orientation, belief system, socio-economic class, etc. (i.e., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of those outside their own or preferred group(s)).

(8) is often envious of those of a different race, sexual orientation, belief system, socio-economic class, etc. others or believes that others are envious of him or her.

(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes toward those of a different race, sexual orientation, belief system, socio-economic class, etc.

Is it possible to have the Spirit of the Father living within us with the above description? Are these people true Christians when they display those ideals of how they live their life?

There are lots of narcissists/bigots who claim Christianity, but due to their personality, unfortunately are wrapped up in worldly standards instead of the standards God has for us.

How do you think God views narcissists/bigots?

It's my personal belief that "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

There are no ands ifs or buts to that statement. This includes everyone. (see my sig.) This is the very reason Jesus died, and if we make exceptions, this depreciates His sacrifice.

However, I also believe with all of my heart other parts of the Bible where it specifically states that we reap what we sow. "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life."

Narcissism is just a fleshly tendency to elevate yourself above others. If we follow this fleshly tendency its impossible to follow the Spirit at the same time.

What do you think? This is what we deal with, living in the world.
But, like CS Lewis says, if you aim for heaven, you get the world thrown in. If you aim for the world, you get neither.

 

[Enkil]

Everyone is vain and bigoted. The only differences are in the degree and acknowledgement of it.

 

[pinkputter]

Everyone is vain and bigoted. The only differences are in the degree and acknowledgement of it.

yeah, which is why i'm wondering if some one who doesn't acknowledge it .. aka a narcissist or bigot.. is really persuing the Holy Spirit.

that's honestly up to them...if they claim Christianity, they should be living their lives like it. But I will say that knowing some bigots/narcissists who claim Christianity and it makes it really hard to treat them in a Christ-like manner because of their contempt for everyone but themselves.

 

[gratefulgrace]

If God saves them sure. I agree that folks with various emotional and mental issues may take a long time to get it and to grow in their faith but nothing is impossible for God. On the other had I have met physcopaths who claim to be christian and can be pretty convincing with their talk but that is all it is. There is no spiritual depth and I agree they probably are not really saved yet just using a line to get what they want. The proof of the redeemed life is in the fruit even if it comes slowly.

 

[pinkputter]

GG, I agree with a lot of what you said. As humans, we have a limited perspective. Even though a psychologist can officially diagnose someone as narcissistic, we can't know their heart like the Almighty God can. I know quite a few narcissists (I guess this is normal right?) and some remain stagnant in their faith, from what I see. Others, I can still see that narcissistic mentality surface, however I do believe they are trying. But, like I already said, we have a limited perspective. It could be that the ones I think are trying are just more compatible with my personality therefore I don't notice their self-centeredness as much.

 

[NvxiaLee]

...orientation, belief system...

Judging by some of the criteria that gets you labeled a bigot, I'd say you have to be a bigot to be a true Christian.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Judging by some of the criteria that gets you labeled a bigot, I'd say you have to be a bigot to be a true Christian.

Hmmmm! That is an argument that bigots would make of course. But, is it a true assessment of Christians? Love should be the motivator for the Christian. God love the world so much that He gave His Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Now, He loved the whole world that He did this. The Lord Jesus is available to to any human being without prejudice, first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. That is the instance that love begins at home and is spread abroad.

 

[emogirl93]

I know quite a few narcissists (I guess this is normal right?) and some remain stagnant in their faith, from what I see. quote]

narcissistic people are on the rise thanks to facebook. it is just a bunch of people that are grasping for any attention they can get. "look at me! look what i did today. look where im going on vacation. look how wonderful i am. look at all the friends i have." the first thing that a narcissist should do if they really want to crucify their flesh is to stop using technology and start praising GOD and not themselves.

 

[gratefulgrace]

I know quite a few narcissists (I guess this is normal right?) and some remain stagnant in their faith, from what I see. quote]

narcissistic people are on the rise thanks to facebook. it is just a bunch of people that are grasping for any attention they can get. "look at me! look what i did today. look where im going on vacation. look how wonderful i am. look at all the friends i have." the first thing that a narcissist should do if they really want to crucify their flesh is to stop using technology and start praising GOD and not themselves.

Well this is quite the over generalization and stereo typing post isn't it? You could say the same thing about yourself and other folks who post here on CF. We all have different motives and I think it is presumptuous to figure that you know what they are and can truthfully judge them.

 

[emogirl93]

Well this is quite the over generalization and stereo typing post isn't it? You could say the same thing about yourself and other folks who post here on CF. We all have different motives and I think it is presumptuous to figure that you know what they are and can truthfully judge them.

yes i could say the same thing about some of the people who post on cf. its not about judging someone, which you were quick to do because you didn't like what i had to say. if i were to see narcissistic traits begin to develop in my life, i would hope that i would question my own motives and limit the activities or even go so far as to eliminate the activities that were becoming a stumbling block for me.

you were calling me presumptuous because i identified certain characteristics of narcissists. when i see someone going over the top to draw attention to themselves, brag about how wonderful they are and all they possess, or belittle someone else in order to glorify themselves on a regular basis, a red flag goes up for me.

there are certain behaviors that are associated with being a drug addict. if you saw those behaviors in a family member, you would hopefully, go to them and express concern and encourage them to get help. that's not judging someone. it's identifying behaviors and encouraging them to stay away from the things that trigger that kind of behavior.

narcissism is just a pyscological term for self centeredness and self worship. in order to live a christian life, you have to lay down your own life and draw attention to christ, not yourself. that is why i brought up facebook. do i believe that everyone on facebook or other forums is a narcissist? no. but do narcissists feed off of forums like this to feed their desire for glory. yes.

i read an article about the kinds of effects that the facebook is having on people psycologically and psychiatrists are saying that facebook is a contributing factor in the growing rates in narcissism. my comment was to say what someone that has found themself in that behavior can do, if they sincerely want to be set free from it. like jesus said, "if your eye offend thee, pluck it out." if facebook, cf or other forums diminish the fruit of the spirit and cause a person to sow to the flesh, get rid of it. that is all i was saying.

i don't have enough posts to post a link to some of the studies that i was talking about. you can google facebook and narcissism study and there is even one from CNN.

 

[pinkputter]

Well this is quite the over generalization and stereo typing post isn't it? You could say the same thing about yourself and other folks who post here on CF. We all have different motives and I think it is presumptuous to figure that you know what they are and can truthfully judge them.

Yeah GG, what exactly are you saying here? that is a judgement in and of itself. It's completely ok to be aware of the kind of people you run into, for your sake and theirs. I think this is what Jesus is talking about when he says be cunning as snakes but innocent as doves. Mat10:16. We are innocent in that we are not being "judgemental" which by the way I think that comes from your heart and only God can know if someone is or is not being judgemental. But we are cunning as snakes as we possess the skills to recognize unhealthy, maladaptive traits in others (and ourselves) ...it's just like the drug addict example mentioned.

I know many people who don't have facebook, and that's probably why. But to me, it's not any more self-righteous, self-worshipping than they would be in other circumstances.

I will have to pray for patience from God about narcissists, as I quickly tire from all the "I'm so great" mentality, with an implied, "and you're not." It's definitely frustrating but I am still under the impression that a lot of them would change if there wasn't a benefit from their selfish behavior. But like i've said, that's between them and God.