Lutheran Rosicrucianism

[Ishraqiyun]

It seems that major impetus for the Rosicrucian "movement" came out the Lutheran world. Even the symbol of the Rose Cross is closly connected with the personal seal of Martin Luther. Johannes Valentinus Andeae a popular Luthern theologian with Pietist sympathies is generally accepted as the author the Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz for example. The Rosicrucians also held Luther as an example of resistance to Papal authority. How do Lutherans now a days feel about the Rosicrucian movement. Did it ever gain widespread support? Are there any Lutheran Rosicrucians still around?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucian

"Rosicrucianism was more closely associated with Protestantism than Roman Catholism and in particular, was most closely associated with Lutheranism.[4]"

Johannes Valentinus Andreae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[QuiltAngel]

Sounds very cultish/lodge like. I had never heard of this group until you brought it up. The fact that you have to become a member in order to know more about them is a very large red flag to me. The wiki article also said that they had great influence on the Masons. Those of us in the LCMS have an issue with secret lodges that also claim to be Christian, yet the emphasis on self.

 

[DaRev]

It seems their existance predates the Reformation by many years.

I've never heard of this before.

 

[Studeclunker]

Whatever the history, the Rosacrutians do not believe the same as Lutherans. Just because someone quotes Luther does not make them Lutherans.

 

[lux et lex]

Very interesting, haven't heard of this before. Doesn't seem Lutheran to me, but interesting none the less.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

I wouldn't necessarily say it was limited to Lutherans but many of the people associated with what Yeats called "the Rosicrucian Enlightenment" were Lutherans. The "myth" of the Roscruicans was thought to have been started by a group of Lutherans from Germany associated with Jahannes Valentinus Andreae. They looked forward to a new era of tolerance , free thinking, and learning that would bring about a blossoming of science, art , and religion.

 

[Lost Squirrel]

Ah, that's right... Wikipedia is gospel! Tell me another.

 

[QuiltAngel]

I do not see where in the Wiki articles you link to that this group came out of the Lutheran world. Also, because the Wiki article states that it was closely associated with Luthernism does not mean that it really is. Nothing in there is Lutheran at all. I think that we Lutherans would know if it is Lutheran or not.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Ah, that's right... Wikipedia is gospel!

Tell me another.

If you are really interested in the subject there are probably a few good books I could recommend. I just linked there because it had much of the same information I've found elsewhere.

Currently I'm reading "The Rosicrucian Enlightenment Revisited" and it discusses the Lutheran Milieu that gave rise to the "movement". The classic book on the subject would be "The Rosicrucian Enlightenment" by Frances Yates though. The book I'm reading now is a sort of tribute to that written by a collection of other authors.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

I do not see where in the Wiki articles you link to that this group came out of the Lutheran world. Also, because the Wiki article states that it was closely associated with Luthernism does not mean that it really is. Nothing in there is Lutheran at all. I think that we Lutherans would know if it is Lutheran or not. __________________

Many of the people associated with that stream of thought and the "movement" considered themselves to be Lutheran. Some of them were fairly respected theologians at the time schooled at Tubingen and other centers of Lutheran learning. If they were "Real Lutherans" TM or not could certainly be debated.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Many of the people associated with that stream of thought and the "movement" considered themselves to be Lutheran. Some of them were fairly respected theologians at the time schooled at Tubingen and other centers of Lutheran learning. If they were "Real Lutherans" TM or not could certainly be debated.

Links?

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Sounds very cultish/lodge like.

Originaly I don't think it was an actual physical group or lodge. It was a spiritual myth much like the grail myth. Now there are many groups that call themselves "Rosicrucian" and claim to be the inheritors of an actual group. I highly doubt their claims though.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

You might want to do a google on "Rosicrucian" and some of the names of the key figures (like Andreae, Henrich Khunrath, etc) so you can find a source you consider credible? I'm not really keen on trying to prove that he or any of the other figures associated with it considered themselves Lutheran. I figured it was fairly common knowledge for anyone who had looked into the matter. If you come to the conclusion that it isn't in fact the case thats fine with me too.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Well, you are a guest in the Lutheran forum and you seem bent on proving to us that this group/movement or whatever is Lutheran. It is up to you to provide that proof that it is rooted in Lutheranism, which does not seem to be the case as nothing about it is anywhere near Lutheran.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

which does not seem to be the case as nothing about it is anywhere near Lutheran.
I

I said they were Lutheran I didn't mean to imply that their positions were inline with Lutheran orthodoxy. The fact that these people called themselves Lutheran, went to Lutheran Churches, and some of them were trained in Lutheran seminaries is well known. That's all I mean by saying they were Lutheran. I didn't make the opening post to prove it either I simply stated it and asked people what they thought about the whole thing. You have every right to consider them false Lutherans if you want. I wouldn't try to argue against that either because I'm not a Lutheran and it isn't my place to judge if a self professed Lutheran is actually a "real Lutheran". In fact I was interested in finding out peoples opinion on exactly that. Do people think they legitimately represented the Lutheran spirit or were they heretics within the body of the Lutheran Church? I didn't think anyone would question the fact that they called themselves Lutheran and didn't think there would even be an argument against that. Much like a person might say that Geroge Washington was an Episcapalian (or some other historical figure). It doesn't mean they were good or bad Episcopalians or that they were orthodox or heterodox ones its just a general label they have because they call themselves such. That's all I meant by it and if it was construed otherwise I apologize.

Oh yeah I forget Michael Maier. That's probably a good name to add to any search. Robert Fludd the other fellow associated with Maier was an Anglican though. So it certainly wasn't all self professed Lutherans.

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

Not knowing much about them or still clear as to what to say regarding this, I'm just going to quote some references on the Rosicrucians so people have some more ideas about them:

From a Concise Enclyclopedia of Christianity (Oneworld Publications)
Members of the Order of the Rosy Cross, a mystical brotherhood in Germany founded by a supposed Christian Rosenkreutz in the 17th Century who had learned the occult wisdom of the East and invited men of goodwill to join the Order. There was much literature, and several organizations claimed to come from the Rosicrucians. In England, Kenneth Mackenzie said he had joined a Rosicrucian masonic order in 1872, and in 1915 Arthur Waite developed his own Rosy Cross Fellowship. In California a recent organization is the Ancient and Mystical Order Rosae Crucis, teaching doctrines by correspondence.

From Oxford Concise Dictionary of the Christian Church:
Secret societies who venerated the emblems of the Rose (or perhaps the Dew, ros) and the Cross as twin symbols of the Lord's Resurrection and Redemption. In 1614 and 1615 two anonymous writings were published in Germany, the Fama Fraternitatis and the Confessio Fraternitatis. They were followed in 1616 by the Chymische Hochzeit Christiani Rosenkreutz (now ascribed to the Lutheran pastor J.V. Andreae) which states that a certain Christian Rosenkreutz founded a secret society devoted to the study of the hidden things of nature and an esoteric and anti-catholic kind of Christianity; the author claimed this society still existed. The books were taken seriously and various societies with alchemistic tendencies came into being under their influence.

 

[TheDude28]

Most of the lodge movements be it freemasonry or rosicrucianism were born out of Protestantism as many were in protest of the church of rome.

 

[A Shield of Turquoise]

During and after the Renaissance hermeticism, alchemy, and neo-Platonic ideas were widespread among the European elite, and usually intertwined (some might argue "cloaked") with Christianity. The renaissance humanism that informed the Reformation was imbued with this spirit and the Rosicrucian movement was one expression of this. Probably the most famous Lutheran philosopher in this vein, albeit not a Rosicrucian, was the shoemaker Jacob Boehme. He was enormously influential in the pietist movement and German philosophy in general. The Anglican priest William Law translated his works into English where he gained some traction among Anglicans, Quakers, and Methodists (much to John Wesley's annoyance). Boehme seems to have considered himself an orthodox Christian though some Lutheran divines would beg to differ. As for the Rosicrucians there are of course a dozen or so occult groups claiming descent from the original movement, all quite doubtful. Some of them overlap with Freemasonry, which of course has its own dubious mythology of its origins.

 

[tampasteve]

 

[tampasteve]

Just an FYI, this thread has not had comments since 2011 and the members have not been around since 2014. That said, I appreciate your information, I had not heard it before and find it interesting. Thanks for commenting! Feel encouraged to start a new thread on the topic, or another topic should you desire.