There is "FIRE" mentioned in Luke and the word "hell" is also there.
Luke 16:19
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
I believe that the Rich Man and Lazarus was a parable. Jesus clearly taught that our body parts do not burn up till the end of the age. In this parable, there are tongues, fingers, bosoms, and eyes involved. Watch Pastor Bohr's entire sermon as he appeals to the works of Josephus to prove his points.
The above appears to taking place prior to "the end of the age"....
...Because a little later Jesus says the guy wants to go back and warn his brothers.
...Who have not died yet.
Please don't say this does not mean what it says.....
...Jesus' teachings were all things that DID or COULD happen.
...God does not have to teach truth with lies.
...Which is where you would need to push this, right?
It "appears" so, but it's not so! Or else it would contradict the rest of scriptures.
Ok,
2 Peter 2:3
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but delivered them, drawn down by infernal ropes to the lower hell, unto torments, to be reserved unto judgment
Well Lysimachus, I would simply say it might not be such a good idea to fashion a God that fits your liking...
...I think it would be better to accept God is the way He is.
...And know that just because you find something offensive.
...You can't wish it away because it offends you.
It's truly sad that there are minds out there that are warped with this insidious pagan mythology. No wonder they can never see anything we talk about concerning God's law, because the mind is so filled with this foolish garbage. These kinds of doctrines may very well prove the undoing of many in the last days, as they will be deceived by the wonder-working miracles of demons because they cannot see clearly concerning the estate of the dead.
Your language emanates the same teachings being emanated by
false teachers such as that of Perry Stone, who is a FALSE prophet!
The first major blunder Perry makes is in failing to recognize that in order to comprehend what the Apostolic authors meant in the Greek for the New Testament, we must think in the “Hebrew mind”. The Greek language, by classification, is a
pagan language, stooped in mythology. With the gospel going out to the gentile Greeks, it is no wonder the Apostles wrote in Greek. Unfortunately, as these Apostles wrote down their thoughts, they struggled for the best Greek words to express their Hebrew thoughts.
The first question that must be asked is, can one honestly conclude that when the Angels sinned in heaven, they were immediately cast down into chambers below the earth in 2 Peter 2:4?
Let’s quote the full verse, and then evaluate what Peter is really saying:
“For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [Tartaroo], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.” 2 Peter 2:4
Is Peter saying that Satan and his angels were
literally cast into underworld pits of fire? Let’s compare:
“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:9 -- notice the same language, but in the literal sense.
“How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!” Isaiah 14:12
Peter is clearly using the word “hell” (tartaroo) to represent the earth, in it’s sin-stricken, and fallen state. The earth truly was the “lowest” place anyone could dwell in the entire universe, as it is was the only planet that ever fell. Peter states that when the angels sinned, God cast them to hell, and the Apostle John in Revelation 12:9 clearly indicates this same definition to represent the “earth”. Isaiah calls it “the ground”. All 3 verses above are speaking about the same event, when Satan was cast out of heaven! The clear proof that Satan and his Demons are not in some confined underworld is that Satan beguiled Eve through the serpent. He appeared to Christ and tempted him while he was in the wilderness for 40 years, and he debated with God in heaven over the fate of Job. The demons could also not possibly possess a human being if they were confined to some underworld. Yes, they are confined! But to this “earth”! This earth is the “lowest part” (because it is sinful) of the universe! They are ROAMING the SURFACE of this earth. That’s how they tempt people and cause so much strife!
Perry Stone also mentioned that the word “Sheol” is translated as the word “Hell” 31 times, and then added immediately after “sometimes as grave”. He seemed to ignore the fact that Sheol is ALSO translated as “grave” 31 times (the same amount of times as hell) as well, and “pit” 3 times. That’s a vast difference from “sometimes”. However, regardless of how many times “Sheol” is translated into a word, the Hebrew word “Sheol” will always be “Sheol”. According to the concordance, the word “Sheol” itself gives no indication as the abode of spirit demons, or fallen angels. It primarily represents “the abode of the dead”, also known as the “grave.” If you visit any cemetery, take off the grave stone, and open up the lids to the grave, you will see that the casket was buried “in a pit”. Hence, Sheol is also rightly interpreted as “pit”. A pit is “down” in the earth, and thus rightly fits an idiomatic representation for the “underworld”, because it is “beneath the earth”. There is
no indication of any “conscious spiritual existence” in the place of Sheol, no matter how you look at it. In the Hebrew mind, Hell, the Grave, and the Pit were all the same thing – “Sheol”. There was no “fire” in this place. Thus, when the Hebrew authors made use of Greek words Tartaroo, Hades, and Abussos, we must bare in mind that these words were just that—Greek pagan words stooped in mythological mystery. But even then, there is NO “fire” or “burning” associated with the words “Sheol” or “Hades”. Any concordance will reveal this.
The word “tartaroo” contains the Strong’s definition of a place where wicked are held for “punishment”, according to Greek mythology. According to scripture, “the wages of sin is death”. The punishment of the wicked is death, not eternal life, yet people continue to falsely translate “punishment” as meaning to represent suffering while one is “conscious”. However, in 2 Peter 2:4, the word “tartaroo” is being used as a verb according to Strong’s definition. The
entire phrase “cast down to hell” is used to replace the active verb particle
“tartarwsav” (which is the actual word used in 2 Peter 2:4). All Peter is really saying is that Satan and his Angels were cast out of heaven, down to this dark, dreary, and sinful planet. A planet full of death, disease, and suffering! The euphemism rightly fits!
The only Greek word for Hell that represents a place of burning is “Gehenna”. It should be noted that Gehenna was on the surface of the earth. I shall discuss this in greater detail in the next section below.
When 2 Peter 2:4 states that God delivered them into
“chains of darkness”, Peter is not referring to literal chains binding demons in “underground chambers” as Perry states. Demons are clearly roaming the earth, and tempting people. They will be reserved to these chains
“unto judgment”. When did this time begin? The moment Satan and his angels were cast down to heaven on this earth. When is judgment day? When Christ comes in the clouds of heaven at his Second Coming. Ever since Satan was thrown out of heaven, he and his angels have been in “chains of darkness”. King David prayed
“Bring my soul out of prison, that I may praise thy name: the righteous shall compass me about; for thou shalt deal bountifully with me.” Psalms 142:7. Was King David’s spirit literally confined to a prison? Obviously not, as David was alive while praying this. The prison simply represents the “prison house of sin”. The “chains of darkness” represent the confinement to this dark and sinful world. That is all! To literalize this would be to bring reproach upon God’s sacred symbolism.
Satan will be bound by a chain of circumstances for 1000 years on this desolated earth while there are no humans to tempt. His greatest joy is to deceive, harass, and make people’s lives miserable. Every single wicked human being will be dead during this 1000 year period, and every single righteous being will be in heaven during this time.
It is my invitation to Pythons, to
come out of this Babylonian doctrine. Because this doctrine comes from Babylon. This is nothing more than pagan mythology--and it makes Christianity out to look absolutely despicable.
You mean to say never once did the Sadducees claim to believe in hell...
...Jesus rebuked the Sadducees grave error that the soul did not continue after death of the body.
Don't know what scriptures you are alluding to here. I would have to analyze the exact verses you are referring to where you say Jesus rebuked the Sadducees for the "grave error that the soul did not continue after death of the body".
You also believe that it was possible for Christ to mutate and sin AND loose His salvation...
If someone were to say this in front of my face, I must confess, I'd be very tempted to slap them for making it sound so "eery" and stupid. But it's a good thing I'm a Christian. When God gave up His only begotten Son, it was a GREAT risk! And this risk demonstrates to the world just how much the Father loved us, and how much His Son loved us--even at the risk of Losing His own Son. Because your mind is in the gutter concerning these valuable treasures, it is impossible for you to grasp the infinite cost that has been paid for your redemption. You truly do not appreciate what Jesus has done for you. You would rather cling to your Hermetic Dragon worship, as you are a confused man about the estate of the dead. When you say stupid stuff like "mutate", it goes to show that you are not a discerner of Spiritual things. You are a very proud individual who is unwilling to let go of his
errors.
It is very Biblical to believe that Jesus could have fallen. This is why He had to "overcome". If He did not "overcome", then it means there was no risk, and He didn't even have to "try" to resist temptation. Just the fact that Jesus was "tempted" as we are, PROVES that there was a risk involved of Him losing salvation. But we can overcome as Christ overcame.
...You also belive Christ pre-existed as Michael the archangel, along with Lucifer the archangel.
I believe Michael was another name for Christ, and I believe that Christ was and is equal with God, and that he was the "highest messenger" (arch angel) sent to this earth!
...And a whole host of other archangels.
What do evangelicals use Froom for "all the time" I know many evangelicals and I'm guessing....
...If I asked them if they ever heard of Froom they would say; what?, Who?
Baloney. You need to give up your monstrosity of stupidity, and join the truth.
SDA's also appeal to the works of George Storrs and in fact I have appealed to the work of Storrs...
...In my discussions with SDA's and JW's.
And? What's wrong with appealing to someone who has made some good Biblical points? Regardless of their life? If someone makes a good point, I appeal to them! I could care less about the individual! Arguments are arguments, and they either stand on their own two feet or they don't, regardless of the life of the individual.
