Fornication and Salvation

[ja38son]

I'm a guy. I'm not married and don't plan to be any time soon. I think about sex sometimes because women are...well..... awesome. lol Sometimes I have sex because I'm a guy, and guy think about it, guy think women are awesome, and guy can't help it. Guy beat chest. If she's ugly lol, I can act all religious and say it's not the right thing to do. The problem occurs when she is beautiful. I never start it, it just happens. I'm 38 and have the body and drive like an 18 year old athlete. Very high testosterone. I am energetic, constantly on the go, my mind races like a turbo jet and I am driven in most aspects of life. I love God, believe in Salvation through Christ, and pray forgiveness as I've been taught ever since childhood. I don't desire to drink, smoke, do drugs, chew, cuss, hate, this that and the other. I just have trouble with sex when it is available. I know it's wrong and feel convicted about it....For over 20 years!!

THE bible says Fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 5 v19-21 Fornication is sex before marriage. I am not married. I have had sex. Therefore I am a Fornicator and will not inherit the kingdom of God right?. lol I'm not goanna let a little thing like being cast out of Heaven keep me from praying however. ha! I'm not going quit that easy. I pray, repent, move on, a few months to a year goes by then oops, it happens again. It's like a broken record.

Some will say I was never saved to begin with because I don't display the fruit of the Spirit.
Some will say as long as I believe I will never be plucked out of Gods hand.
Some will say even though I was saved now Fornication will cause me to be rejected by God.

I don't know. I look for the signs of Gods return daily by studying the word with current events. I pray and ask for the peace of Jerusalem daily. I long to be with my mother who is in heaven after loosing her to cancer 3 years ago. I have desire and there is no doubt about that....BUT the bible say's it clear that Fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God. I guess I'm toast eh. What say you?

 

[heron]

You're looking at this from your own viewpoint. Try something else -- picture what the woman might be thinking, and what she might go through after the fact.

Women tend to do things to please a man they like, because they want to make sure the man stays around. They clean your apartment as a gesture of caring, when they don't like to clean. They befriend your family because they want everything to go smoothly. They entice you because it feels great to be wanted.

But picture what happens to a woman if she contracts an STD from one of your previous flings. Or if she has to work an infant human into her schedule and finances.

What you want seems right at the time, and sensible at the time -- it is an expression of how you feel. But there are more things in life than how we feel and express ourselves.

 

[CoconutPrincess]

Why did Jesus say to love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind and strength? Because if we love Him that way, we will not sin against Him. I'm not saying a Christian doesn't fall into sin, but planning sin, allowing yourself to be in situations that will probably cause you to sin, that is not the same thing.

Yes, we are under grace, but James is pretty clear that true saving faith results in a changed life. Paul said that sin will not dominate a true Christian and we will no longer be slaves to sin.

The Bible says a man should get married if he cannot control his lusts... I think you fit that bill. Why in the world, if you want to have sex so badly, do you not want to get married? If you are married, you can have all the sex you want and it's totally accepted by God.

I really don't know what else to say other than a true believer seeks to love His God will all of his being and counts himself dead to sin, runs from sin and does all He can to please God, not get GET saved, but because he truly IS saved.

God bless...

 

[ja38son]

I'm learning how to post so sorry for the edits. I also accidently reported one of you because I thought the button said remove post. lol My bad.

 

[ja38son]

I'm not going to get married for the sole purpose of sex. I think I have to love the woman first.
So you think I plan my encounters. Fair enough but not true. It just happens. Lesser and lesser it seems as I get older but I still struggle. I never bring it up first by the way.
So you believe since I have not been able to defeat this sin that God never knew me even though I have the desire to seek God. Understood. Thanks

 

[ja38son]

You're looking at this from your own viewpoint. Try something else -- picture what the woman might be thinking, and what she might go through after the fact.

Women tend to do things to please a man they like, because they want to make sure the man stays around. They clean your apartment as a gesture of caring, when they don't like to clean. They befriend your family because they want everything to go smoothly. They entice you because it feels great to be wanted.

But picture what happens to a woman if she contracts an STD from one of your previous flings. Or if she has to work an infant human into her schedule and finances.

What you want seems right at the time, and sensible at the time -- it is an expression of how you feel. But there are more things in life than how we feel and express ourselves.

So even after a night of removing her hand off my butt 15 times she is still the victim of my evil intentions right? People have sex because it feels good. The women I ended up with were all stable, single, happy, healthy, and things just happen sometimes on a date. lol, ohhh, she never ever cleaned my apartment either. I know what I have done. I also know there will be temptations in the future. If had gotten married at 20 there would have only been one person in my life. This is not the case and I have had a few dates in my single life. I have no STD's thank God.

 

[CoconutPrincess]

Of course you have to love a woman, but you said you weren't planning on getting married any time soon. I think that you need to have marriage in mind and maybe should be something you be thinking about when you meet/date women.

Okay, let me understand. Are you just going on dates with women and then it ends up happening? Or are you hanging out in dance clubs? How exactly is this happening? Because, if its putting yourself in places where sex usually ends up happening, then stop putting yourself there. If its dating, then set rules for yourself like, public places only, no going home with her, no letting her go home with you, etc. If it's dance clubs... stop going.

Ask yourself, are you really fighting against this?

You haven't been able to defeat the sin because you're still doing it, right? Fighting against sin is hard. Struggling means to fight it, not give in. It may take everything you've got to fight it, but God will give you the strength. Part of fighting against it is not allowing yourself to be in certain situations. For example, if the women has her hand on your butt over and over, then tell her goodbye and go home. I mean, you can fight against this, its just that you allow yourself to give in and frankly, you desire your sin more than pleasing God (sorry to be blunt).

I never said God never knew you. Listen, you came in asking about scripture that says fornicators are not inheriting the Kingdom and then you say that you are a fornicator. Now I am telling you this in love, if you are a Christian and you desire to obey the Lord more than commiting this sin, then do it and do whatever you have to do to get rid of the sin in your life.

p.s. I've been where you are, not the same sin, but a sin that had me as its slave. I overcame through the power of the God enabling me to fight against it. I avoided all situations that would lead me to that sin and it's been 2 years since I have commited that sin, only by the power of God. You CAN overcome.

Blessings...

 

[ja38son]

Of course you have to love a woman, but you said you weren't planning on getting married any time soon. I think that you need to have marriage in mind and maybe should be something you be thinking about when you meet/date women.

Okay, let me understand. Are you just going on dates with women and then it ends up happening? Or are you hanging out in dance clubs? How exactly is this happening? Because, if its putting yourself in places where sex usually ends up happening, then stop putting yourself there. If its dating, then set rules for yourself like, public places only, no going home with her, no letting her go home with you, etc. If it's dance clubs... stop going.

Ask yourself, are you really fighting against this?

You haven't been able to defeat the sin because you're still doing it, right? Fighting against sin is hard. Struggling means to fight it, not give in. It may take everything you've got to fight it, but God will give you the strength. Part of fighting against it is not allowing yourself to be in certain situations. For example, if the women has her hand on your butt over and over, then tell her goodbye and go home. I mean, you can fight against this, its just that you allow yourself to give in and frankly, you desire your sin more than pleasing God (sorry to be blunt).

I never said God never knew you. Listen, you came in asking about scripture that says fornicators are not inheriting the Kingdom and then you say that you are a fornicator. Now I am telling you this in love, if you are a Christian and you desire to obey the Lord more than commiting this sin, then do it and do whatever you have to do to get rid of the sin in your life.

p.s. I've been where you are, not the same sin, but a sin that had me as its slave. I overcame through the power of the God enabling me to fight against it. I avoided all situations that would lead me to that sin and it's been 2 years since I have commited that sin, only by the power of God. You CAN overcome.

Blessings...

Hmmm, I see. So is it God changing me? Or is it me stoping it? Who has the power here?

 

[CoconutPrincess]

It's both... without God's Spirit in you, you wouldn't be able to stop it. He is able to give you power to stop it. We are given a new spirit when we are saved and we are no longer obligated to do what our sinful nature urges us to do. When we are unsaved, we just obey it and are its slave. You can overcome this, He will give you the power and it is He who works in you to both will and obey Him.

I'm sorry if I came on strong, but I truly know what its like and He helped me overcome and has helped many, but we don't sit there waiting for Him to do it. We do what we can (avoid situations for example) but the point is this, He is even giving us the power to do that! If you were unsaved, you would just continue and not want to fight it, but if you get serious with God, tell Him you really want this sin out of your life and you need His power to help you, you can overcome.

Also, no one can tell you if you're saved, we must examine ourselves.

He loves you and wants you to be free of this

 

[ja38son]

It's both... without God's Spirit in you, you wouldn't be able to stop it. He is able to give you power to stop it. We are given a new spirit when we are saved and we are no longer obligated to do what our sinful nature urges us to do. When we are unsaved, we just obey it and are its slave. You can overcome this, He will give you the power and it is He who works in you to both will and obey Him.

I'm sorry if I came on strong, but I truly know what its like and He helped me overcome and has helped many, but we don't sit there waiting for Him to do it. We do what we can (avoid situations for example) but the point is this, He is even giving us the power to do that! If you were unsaved, you would just continue and not want to fight it, but if you get serious with God, tell Him you really want this sin out of your life and you need His power to help you, you can overcome.

Also, no one can tell you if you're saved, we must examine ourselves.

He loves you and wants you to be free of this

I understand and appreciate your posting. I have been serious about God most of my life. This is a sin. Obviously I have to avoid it. I'm hardly the party type. You will catch me at the gym on a Saturday night rather than the disco. It's just strange how it is that I can go on thinking I'm a saved Christian but really I'm not according to some of these verses as you say. Afterall, I have been dealing with this sin half my life sporadically and if God changes us then surely I should have defeated it by now. I have said the words, meant them, went on, and later oops. I mean a true Christian doesn't sin the same sin twice, three, four, five,......20 times does he. A true Christian gets changed and I haven't changed this sin. So no matter how much I pray, repent, and go the next year without sinning if I fall to Fornication one more time then it means I was never saved to begin with according to James as you say. Hmmm, guess I'll have to stop dating then.

 

[CoconutPrincess]

I don't think you're understanding what the scripture is sayng. I really don't know how else to say it. Maybe someone else will be able to put it more clear to you.

Yes, maybe you will have to stop dating until you overcome this or as I said, date within guidelines you set for yourself that will enable you to date in a way that honors the Lord.

 

[ja38son]

Here is a thought. Perhaps what I am going through is normal however gradual it may be. The Holy Spirit is the wind of God. It convicts of sin. Yea, I know that feeling all too well. Is it possible during this 20 years I have been under Gods grace. Who would put limits on his forgiveness? The thing is we sin every day hince the verse "work your salvation daily" . There are only so many sins and if you take the number of available sins divided by the number of days in a persons lifespan you get many many repeated sins through your lifetime. If we sin daily then we actually never overcome sin till death. My particular sin just happens to be Fornication. If I were a smoker or drinker according to some I would be better off. But the fact is sin is sin and we do it everyday. Does this mean God has not changed us if we are told to work out salvation daily? Surely if all of us sin daily then what kind of fruit is that? Common sense is telling me I will continue to struggle with this but not to give up even if I fall. A man in a wheelchair may not have to deal with this sin but he might fall to drug addiction and have to get back up over and over again like me. I don't know, I'm an idiot, just thinking out loud. What say you posters?

 

[CoconutPrincess]

I understand what you're saying. Yes, if we added up all our sins over a lifetime, it would be repeated.

I think the point is this. When we are saved, we are able to live in obedience to God and we look to the Bible on how to live our lives. The Bible says to run from sexual sin. Are you running? Are you truly fighting? The person who is truly running and fighting against sin is still saved, even if he fails, but if you're allowing yourself to be tempted by choosing to put yourself in situations, well then you're not truly fighting this sin.

I mean, there is plenty of things you can do to avoid this sin:

- double date with another couple, even a strong Christian male friend who can hold you accountable
- don't date non-Christians or Christians who are also weak in this area
- set rules for dating and KEEP them
- tell the person you're thinking of dating where you stand in honoring God with dating and that you are looking to date women who stand for the same thing

These are just a few suggestions of ways you can truly fight against sin.

 

[ja38son]

I don't think you're understanding what the scripture is sayng. I really don't know how else to say it. Maybe someone else will be able to put it more clear to you.

Yes, maybe you will have to stop dating until you overcome this or as I said, date within guidelines you set for yourself that will enable you to date in a way that honors the Lord.

Lol, there are a lot of things I don't understand either. The point of this post is to put into words what I am trying to overcome. I know Gods return is imminnent as Israel is under seige. I am trying really hard to make things right between me and God. I doubt in todays world a family would be a wise thing to consider. My work schedule is so crazy. For example, I am about to go to bed and will wake up at 3pm. lol Every woman I have had a relationship with started out thinking they could handle my job but later realized it was too much. Perhaps if I were a millionare that would change but oh well and lol. The bible does say to get married if lust is controlling you but I refuse to get married because of that alone. A lot of people do and end up in divorce and that is my worst nightmare. Thank God I don't have kids, stds, and expecially divorce. I can't imagine that.

 

[LWB]

Hi Ja38son,

I think the process of our salvation and sanctification is like a journey. A pilgrimage through a rocky terrain of valleys and summits.

There are times when the carnal nature gets the best of us, and any man who has lusted after another woman is as guilty as you are.

Obeying the carnal nature is like being in a valley. But there are times when the believer climbs out of that place and is refreshed by love for God and an appreciation of spiritual things. This is like being on the summit.

I don't know about you, but my times on the various summits have inspired me with such love for God, that I want to obey him even when carnal existence overwhelms my focus. I'm not resisting the flesh because I'm scared of being banished from Heaven. I'm doing it because it is the most powerful way I can express my love for God.

We are all sinners, but it is our faith in Christ which saves us. Yet there is something greater than being spared from the punishment due us. A treasure beyond your wildest imagination. But you will never enjoy this treasure unless you learn to hold fast in obedience. This is a far better way than to be like one escaping through the flames.

 

[CoconutPrincess]

Making things right between you and God is by your faith in Christ, not looking at your performance, but at the same time, we must be honest with ourselves about our relationship with Christ.

The Bible is giving you the answers you're asking, you just have to accept them and apply them to your life.

 

[kimmiemae]

I can't say if you are saved, but we are called to test every spirit. Do you have the Holy Spirit living within you? Only you can answer this. I am not asking for myself and you do not need to respond.

Have you ever heard of an ungodly soul tie? This could be spiritual and pulling you right back to the sin you are trying to leave. One are one with many women because of sexual relations and although you do not have an std you may have other problems. Demons are sexually transferable which may explain a lot to you and why you may even relive or ruminate on thoughts of those magic moments.

"Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." [fn]

1Cr 6:17 But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.

1Cr 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.

1Cr 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

1Cr 6:20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

 

[paul1149]

Jason,

Fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, but I believe what Paul had in mind there was not someone who falls, but someone who practices fornication.

You seem to be somewhere between. You seem to be serious about God, but you have a recurring problem. Let's take a look at something you’ve said some four times here: “it just happens”.

No, it doesn’t just happen. It might just happen once, maybe even twice. But it doesn’t continue to “just happen”. At some point you are responsible. At some point, if that woman starts getting “handy” with you, it is your responsibility in God to say, sister, I love you - or sister, I enjoy your company – but do not do that again, or this date, and this relationship, is over.

I think you would do well to carefully examine your problem, with an eye to your role in it. What is your criteria for choosing women to date? Is dating a good idea at all? Are there group functions that would satisfy your need for companionship and be safer?

Also, have you considered the effects of your actions on souls of your women partners? What about the pitfalls for you? Forget about the spiritual for a moment – you could become diseased, you could be trapped in a financial or relational commitment for life – perhaps intentionally.

Jesus loves you and He has not put any rules there to spoil your fun. He's trying to protect you. I know it's not easy, and that’s why there is no condemnation coming from me. But still, you are playing with fire and you need to get control of yourself in this area, hopefully before you pay an enormous price.

 

[ja38son]

Jason,

Fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, but I believe what Paul had in mind there was not someone who falls, but someone who practices fornication.

You seem to be somewhere between. You seem to be serious about God, but you have a recurring problem. Let's take a look at something you’ve said some four times here: “it just happens”.

No, it doesn’t just happen. It might just happen once, maybe even twice. But it doesn’t continue to “just happen”. At some point you are responsible. At some point, if that woman starts getting “handy” with you, it is your responsibility in God to say, sister, I love you - or sister, I enjoy your company – but do not do that again, or this date, and this relationship, is over.

I think you would do well to carefully examine your problem, with an eye to your role in it. What is your criteria for choosing women to date? Is dating a good idea at all? Are there group functions that would satisfy your need for companionship and be safer?

Also, have you considered the effects of your actions on souls of your women partners? What about the pitfalls for you? Forget about the spiritual for a moment – you could become diseased, you could be trapped in a financial or relational commitment for life – perhaps intentionally.

Jesus loves you and He has not put any rules there to spoil your fun. He's trying to protect you. I know it's not easy, and that’s why there is no condemnation coming from me. But still, you are playing with fire and you need to get control of yourself in this area, hopefully before you pay an enormous price.

Is it possible to love God and be rejected by God? lol, "Just Happened" I'll go further and say it was my fault all the way, but I didn't force myself on the girl by any means. The female posters here think even though the woman asked for sex that somhow it was never the womans fault. In their minds I am a wolf and that women only have pre marital sex because of love. But yea I had sex, it was my fault and I liked it. Sex feels good and everyone knows that. I don't go looking for it at bars or discos but if I happen to have a girlfriend and she starts getting frisky I'm toast. Getting into relationships are non-existant for me these days but I'm not going to pretend that I would resist the temptation if I had one.
I'm not trying to defend myself either. Everyone let me have it. I'm bad. lol

That being said. I still love God. I miss my mother. I pray, cry sometimes, and just want everyting in phophecy to happen as soon as possible because I know there is a heaven and want to be there. I know Christ loves us but when a verse says "fornicators will not inheret the kingdom of God" I wonder how much God really loves me. That's what I am. It's a sin I do not think I will overcome as long as there is the potential of me having a girlfriend in my youth. It's a problem like you said. I examined it and well, I have chosen to stay out of relationships. One day a little hottie will start asking about me and I will end up on a date even though I know my situation. Who knows what will happen? I might fall in love and actually marry but before that I can't say what will happen. I'm a fornicator! I'm a fornicator that loves God. How is this possible?

 

[CoconutPrincess]

QUOTE: I'm a fornicator! I'm a fornicator that loves God. How is this possible?

Because your love for God is not the love that is described in the Bible. You love God based on what you believe loving God means (emotion), but by the Bible, loving God is not just emotion, it's obedience. That is how we show Him we truly love him.

Jesus said, "IF you love me, you will obey me"... so, do you really love him?

That is why we are to love Him with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. If we love Him this way, we will obey Him.

QUOTE: It's a sin I do not think I will overcome

You can overcome if you apply the Bible to your life and you do practical things like some of the suggestions I gave to you earlier.

QUOTE: One day a little hottie will start asking about me

Maybe start looking to date women who are beautiful on the inside, as the Bible says, who adorn themselves with a love for God. If you date women who love God with all their being, I doubt very much you will fall into sexual sin with them. Dating "hot" women who are not saved or are saved but also weak in sexual temptation is probably not something you should be doing.

You know what has to be done, so if you want to truly overcome and feel right with God, do what has to be done.