Romans 14:14,15 Did Paul declare all foods clean?

Did Paul declare all food clean in Romans 14:14,15?

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1whirlwind

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Thos people in the Andes Mountains plane crash decades ago survived that way.



Yes....I saw that movie. There are also verses in the Bible about dining on children. Because that is written, in your opinion God has approved of cannibalism?


If you accept the following with your present understanding...without seeing what it really tells us, then.....cannibalism is acceptable to God.

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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Yes....I saw that movie. There are also verses in the Bible about dining on children. Because that is written, in your opinion God has approved of cannibalism?

If you accept the following with your present understanding...without seeing what it really tells us, then.....cannibalism is acceptable to God.

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
.
Some non-Christian religions and atheists view the Christians' view of the "Real Presence" in the eucharist as a type of "cannibalism", since it symbolizes the real body and blood of Jesus.
A little absurb of course.

Real Presence - Does it Mean Cannibalism? | Called to Communion

<snip>.......The Jewish dietary laws specified which meats were edible: vegetarian beasts with split hoofs, sea creatures having both fins and scales, and various particular birds and insects. Anything else was de facto unclean. The laws also included a prohibition against eating blood and fat.

In a recent discussion, a Memorialist accused the Catholic Church of violating the Jewish dietary laws by her doctrine of Real Presence since, in his mind, it amounts to cannibalism.
But is this doctrine, which most Christians have always held in some form, a violation of the Torah? Let&#8217;s look at Mark&#8217;s gospel for some helpful clues. In Mark 7:15 Jesus says, &#8220;Nothing outside a man can make him &#8216;unclean&#8217; by going into him.&#8221; In verse 19, Jesus gives the reason and Mark explains the full implication of this radical statement, &#8220;&#8216;For it doesn&#8217;t go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.&#8217; In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.&#8221;
 
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Frogster

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So do all the major greek texts :)

Mark 7 - Parallel Greek New Testament - HTML Bible by johnhurt.com
Mark 7
19
Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus
oti ouk eisporeuetai autou eiV thn kardian all eiV thn koilian kai eiV ton afedrwna ekporeuetai kaqarizon panta ta brwmata
Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus
oti ouk eisporeuetai autou eiV thn kardian all eiV thn koilian kai eiV ton afedrwna ekporeuetai kaqarizon panta ta brwmata
Byzantine Majority
oti ouk eisporeuetai autou eiV thn kardian all eiV thn koilian kai eiV ton afedrwna ekporeuetai kaqarizon panta ta brwmata
Alexandrian
oti ouk eisporeuetai autou eiV thn kardian all eiV thn koilian kai eiV ton afedrwna ekporeuetai kaqarizwn panta ta brwmata
Hort and Westcott
oti ouk eisporeuetai autou eiV thn kardian all eiV thn koilian kai eiV ton afedrwna ekporeuetai kaqarizwn panta ta brwmata

American Standard Version
7:19 because it goeth not into his heart, but into his belly, and goeth out into the draught? This he said, making all meats clean.
Weymouth New Testament
7:19 because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and passes away ejected from him?' By these words Jesus pronounced all kinds of food clean.
Bible in Basic English
7:19 Because it goes not into the heart but into the stomach, and goes out with the waste? He said this, making all food clean.

Latin Vulgate
7:19 quia non introit in cor eius sed in ventrem et in secessum exit purgans omnes escas
King James Version
7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
Darby's English Translation
7:19 because it does not enter into his heart but into his belly, and goes out into the draught, purging all meats?
Douay Rheims
7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but goeth into the belly, and goeth out into the privy, purging all meats?
Noah Webster Bible
7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all kinds of food.
World English Bible
7:19 because it doesn't go into his heart, but into his belly, and into the latrine, thus making all foods clean?'
Young's Literal Translation
7:19 because it doth not enter into his heart, but into the belly, and into the drain it doth go out, purifying all the meats.'

wow! great work as usual, rock on lambster!:thumbsup:
 
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Frogster

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Yes....I saw that movie. There are also verses in the Bible about dining on children. Because that is written, in your opinion God has approved of cannibalism?


If you accept the following with your present understanding...without seeing what it really tells us, then.....cannibalism is acceptable to God.

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
.

i was just joking about eating others, but refute this verse please. if it moves, shoot-n-eat.:p

Genesis 9:3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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wow! great work as usual, rock on lambster!:thumbsup:
As this wise man once said concerning translations of the book of Daniel:

http://www.awitness.org/bible.html

False prophets in Daniel in the Bible. Revived Roman Empire, Beast of the Apocalypse of Mark, and Antiochus the Selucid Greek

<snip>.........As I have noticed while comparing translations of different verses in the Bible, even the most literal translations can suddenly depart from literalism, perhaps visit the Greek Septuagint and abandon the Hebrew translation for a single verse, whenever some highly cherished doctrine might be threatened by a truly literal translation.
Rule of thumb: you should never, ever rely exclusively on one single translation.)

http://www.christianforums.com/t7525115/#post56476716
ENDING OF THE WORLD TWICE
 
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Frogster

Galatians is the best!
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As this wise man once said concerning translations of the book of Daniel:

A Witness to Yahweh ... the Bible pages. Index. A critical examination of the Bible and faith (focusing on source criticism, literary criticism, redaction criticism, form criticism, and historical criticism)

False prophets in Daniel in the Bible. Revived Roman Empire, Beast of the Apocalypse of Mark, and Antiochus the Selucid Greek

<snip>.........As I have noticed while comparing translations of different verses in the Bible, even the most literal translations can suddenly depart from literalism, perhaps visit the Greek Septuagint and abandon the Hebrew translation for a single verse, whenever some highly cherished doctrine might be threatened by a truly literal translation.
Rule of thumb: you should never, ever rely exclusively on one single translation.)

http://www.christianforums.com/t7525115/#post56476716
ENDING OF THE WORLD TWICE

I just bought the house next door to you, so we can be goombas..:blush:
just think, frogster all day!:D

we can have a pork roast.
 
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1whirlwind

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i was just joking about eating others, but refute this verse please. if it moves, shoot-n-eat.:p

Genesis 9:3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything



Using "food" in the place of "meat" can throw the understanding off.

What is "meat?"

John 4:34-35 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of Him that sent Me, and to finish His work. Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
That too is our meat...to do the will of Him that sent us. Everything that lives and moves is the work before us. That is our labour in this life.


John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for Him hath God the Father sealed.



.
 
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H

Heavens

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That which God has cleansed, call not thou unclean;

(Act 10:13)
And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
(Act 10:14) But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
(Act 10:15) And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

God told Peter three times... in case he didn't hear him the first two times I guess lol.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Frogster

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Using "food" in the place of "meat" can throw the understanding off.

What is "meat?"

John 4:34-35 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of Him that sent Me, and to finish His work. Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
That too is our meat...to do the will of Him that sent us. Everything that lives and moves is the work before us. That is our labour in this life.


John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for Him hath God the Father sealed.



.

if it moves, it would qualify as meat, he did mention plants, that generally stay planted.

Does he say there to exclude certain moving creatures?;)
 
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Frogster

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That which God has cleansed, call not thou unclean;

(Act 10:13)
And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
(Act 10:14) But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
(Act 10:15) And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

God told Peter three times... in case he didn't hear him the first two times I guess lol.

:thumbsup:
the sheet had funky creatures on it.:D
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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if it moves, it would qualify as meat, he did mention plants, that generally stay planted.

Does he say there to exclude certain moving creatures?;)
If I saw a plant get up and start walking or crawling around on the ground, not sure if I would want to eat it or not as I would probably be dead of a heart attack if I did see that :D

Interesting that these 2 bible versions render the hebrew word #0402 differently

Young) Genesis 9:3 Every creeping thing that is alive, to you it is for food/0402 'oklah; as the green herb I have given to you the whole;

KJV) Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat/0402 'oklah for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number H402 matches the Hebrew &#1488;&#1464;&#1499;&#1456;&#1500;&#1464;&#1492; ('oklah), which occurs 18 times in 18 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV
AV &#8212; meat 8, devour 3, fuel 3, eat 2, consume 1, food 1

402 'oklah ok-law' feminine of 401; food:--consume, devour, eat, food, meat.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by Heavens
That which God has cleansed, call not thou unclean;
(Act 10:13) And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
And Peter didn't eat any of them. Clue.
Not that it will help.
I seem to recall my bro Ezekiel mentioning the same thing :)

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

[Rotherham] Ezekiel 4:13 Then said Yahweh, "In like manner shall the sons of Israel eat their bread defiled,--among the nations whither I will drive them."
14 Then said I "Ah! My Lord Yahweh, behold!
my person hath not been defiled, neither of what hath died of itself nor of what hath been torn in pieces have I eaten from my youthful days even unto now, neither hath come into my mouth the flesh of a foul thing.
15 So then He said unto me "see, I have granted thee cows dung/06832 ts@phuwa` for mans dung/01561 gelel,--and thou shalt prepare thy bread thereupon".
 
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H

Heavens

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And Peter didn't eat any of them. Clue.
Not that it will help.

It helps to know that it was a difficult lesson for Peter, yes. No one would doubt that Deut. Peter was quite hard headed about it for sure.

That is why God had to repeat Himself three times, so it would sink in to Peter. Yet later, we read it really hadn't yet sunk in so Paul totally reprimanded Peter;

(Gal 2:11) But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
(Gal 2:12) For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
(Gal 2:13) And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

So let's not be in error as Peter, in siding with those who refuse to eat what the Lord has cleansed.
 
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cyberlizard

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Like I say steve, two of the most respected often quoted, scholars say it meant the abrogation of the food laws. Bruce and Lightfoot. Why would they say that, if it was not in some text somewhere, they were not ignorant of the manuscripts.


Your basically asking us to believe that all these translators put this verse by mistake, and all the commentators who say that it was abrogation, don't seem to know something you know.


Are you sayng it is not insome of the oldest greek manuscripts?
:)

I read somewhere that it could be it that the sentence was inserted as a parenthetical editorial comment by Mark, or were the words were spoken by Jesus and quoted by Mark.



New American Standard Bible (©1995)

because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)

Young's Literal Translation

because it doth not enter into his heart, but into the belly, and into the drain it doth go out, purifying all the meats.'


like I have said, commentators do not interest me. You are always so up on pushing scripture only, now why not put your money where your mouth is, and accept the fact that in the Greek, there is no 'thus he declared'... regardless of what bible version you have (unless you can show me otherwise).


a good way of rendering the verse is quite crude....

it doesn't enter his heart (where the will and emotions reside), but into his stomach and from there into the toilet and sewer, in this manner, the body expels food.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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<snip>
a good way of rendering the verse is quite crude....

it doesn't enter his heart (where the will and emotions reside), but into his stomach and from there into the toilet and sewer, in this manner, the body expels food.
Isn't it the heart that the LORD searches :confused:

Jeremiah 17:10 I YHVH, searching heart, examining the affections/kidneys/ 03629 kilyah and giving to man ways of him, as fruit of his doings.
[Reve 2:23]

Reve 2:23 And the offspring of her I shall be killing in death,
and shall be knowing all the Outcalleds that I am the One searching kidneys/reigns/nefrouV <3510> and hearts and I shall be giving to Ye each according to the works of Ye.
[Jeremiah 17:10]

Kindgdom Bible Studies Revelation Series

The church in Thyatira has a longer message delivered to it from Jesus Christ than any of the seven churches............
 
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