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Do we want to 'be taken' or 'left behind'?

LovedofHim

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No scripture that says this, EXCEPT for the books of the kings and chronicles and as for "no historical record" to support it........well.........let's just say if you were in a Theological history discussion among scholars they would laugh you out of the room if they heard you call it an "erroneous assumption"

what's just plain wrong is the fact you REFUSE accept obvious scriptural support which if you would simply study these books you would understand yourself ..............
Mat 10:6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 15:24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Act 2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Hbr 8:10For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Luk 2:36And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
 
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cf4rc

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Jews were restored to the STATE of Israel in 1948 along with the tribes of Benjamin and Levi (House of Judah) but the other tribes were not restored at that time (House of Israel)............more so God foretold that when he would do this he would also raise David the king from the dead to be king again over Israel under Christ's authority as KING of kings....................

so 1948 cannot be the "first sign of the biblical end times" since Israel still hasn't become a nation again.

btw..............Abraham isn't jewish nor Isaac, Jacob (Israel) or Moses,(tribe of Levi) or Aarron............etc........etc..........only those from the tribe of JUDAH are jewish.


Peace to you brother Manasseh...:hug:

I stand corrected...being a westerner it is easy for me to make a mistake like this in my wording and understanding of the different tribes involved...

Jeremiah 30:9; *But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

Is "David (H1732; "beloved" from the same as H1730; loved one, beloved) their king" possibly used here as a reference to Christ as their beloved King who will be raised up unto them after His crucifiction on the cross? He is spoken of as the 'Son of David' many times...

It is the STATE of Israel...not nation...but in this end time scenario I do not believe it makes any difference at all...I would bet my life on the fact that the bloodline of every tribe exists somewhere in Israel right now...God's people have returned to their land from all over the world.

The idea is that the land of Israel has been revived from not existing to existing once again as a home for it's people...in 1948...as the State of Israel...and Jerusalem is that city of God at center stage on all that is happening and does happen in these end days.

This revival of Israel is the biggest sign of the signs of the times as far as I am concerned. Everything is based on this return of His people to the land of Israel as foretold...And therefore, I believe this was the first sign of the end times...

The re-establishment of Israel as a State on May 14, 1948 was, I believe, the beginning date for the shortened 70 year generation which will by no means pass away until all these things take place.

And...one of those things that must take place in this generation of the fig tree is the coming of the Antichrist, his allotted time in power and his being cast alive into the lake of fire...at the return of our Lord which will in turn end this generation Christ has spoken of...

So, without getting too technical...we are now living in that generation of the end times and I believe The Antichrist is here...alive and well on mother earth...doing those things he is to do...as foretold in the Word.

peace and love...God Bless...:wave:
 
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KatrinaC

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Everything I have been taught since I started going to church at 5 has said that if I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior, then I would not endure any of the tribulation as foretold in Revelation. NONE OF IT....understand????

So I read through almost 15 pages of comments from my fellow sisters and brothers in Christ and I am surprised that hardly anyone believes this......am I wrong in believing it then? Have all my pastors (there have been only 4) been wrong?

If so, and considering the events going on in the world (and sky) today, you're all telling me that since I am a very weak believer (I just "re-started" my journey with Christ a year ago), I am going feel God's wrath in the upcoming tribulation?

Better yet, you're all going to sit there and tell me that my perfect and wonderful 6 year old, who will be 7 in April :)thumbsup:) could potentially lose his life in this tribulation and is not going to be raptured to heaven before the age of accountability? Do you know what that makes me feel like right now?

It makes me feel like I have wasted 32 of my 37 years on this earth, believing in an entity....that truly never loved me to begin with or he wouldn't put parents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, etc. through the pain of knowing loved ones, no matter how strongly they believe, are going to die........

I'm off now....to spend what little days I have left with my child
 
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Hockey_Fan

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Dear Katrina,

The most important thing is to believe that God loves you.

There are many different interpretations of what might happen and the timing thereof. We have numerous examples, including Jesus' own disciples as well Christians around the world today, who suffer horribly for their faith. No, God did not promise to "rescue" us from all suffering. It's a hard thing to swallow, I know.

Now just what form of suffering we each may have to endure may vary for many of us. Those of us who live in western nations generally have it easier than some in other parts of the world. I am thankful for the freedom to worship (or not worship) as I see fit without government intrusion.

Yet we still suffer sickness, disease and even death. The fact that we suffer -- and may yet suffer in what some refer to as a "tribulation" -- does not negate the fact that God loves us. It's a hard thing to understand and I struggle with it as well.

Do not let anyone here change what you hold to be true. And yet please be willing to consider what others may say as well. Above all, let all you do and say be done in God's love.

Blessings
 
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yedida

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To LovedofHim, don't get confused. The Bible refers to the House of Judah, and to the House of Israel as individual kingdoms. The Bible ALSO refers to the House of Israel as all inclusive, not just the northern kingdom. You have to learn how to tell the difference, just like the differences when Jacob is referred to as Jacob and when he is referred to as Israel.

To RC and Manesseh: don't forget June 6-7, 1967, when Jerusalem was placed back into Jewish hands!!!

To Katrina: I'm sorry to tell you, but yes, there are more leaders in Christianity that are giving out bad information because that is what they have been taught. It's easy to wonder why/how they got through their seminary years and not see the truth, but the fact is, that seminaries don't take much to having their students point out inconsistencies. So they figure what do they know, after all, they're just students.
It remains each individuals' responsibility to get to the truth, no matter the battle. Don't let someone else do your homework for you.
I realize you are frightened for your little child. Who wouldn't be? Don't forget all the Jewish mommies who had to see their little ones destroyed down through the centuries - some at the hands of Christians. Don't forget the Christian moms in the times of Roman rule (Nero in particular) and during other periods of history as they watched their loved ones slain for the faith. What makes the Christians of the Great Tribulation period so special so as not to have to go through it?
 
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KatrinaC

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To Katrina: I'm sorry to tell you, but yes, there are more leaders in Christianity that are giving out bad information because that is what they have been taught. It's easy to wonder why/how they got through their seminary years and not see the truth, but the fact is, that seminaries don't take much to having their students point out inconsistencies. So they figure what do they know, after all, they're just students.
It remains each individuals' responsibility to get to the truth, no matter the battle. Don't let someone else do your homework for you.
I realize you are frightened for your little child. Who wouldn't be? Don't forget all the Jewish mommies who had to see their little ones destroyed down through the centuries - some at the hands of Christians. Don't forget the Christian moms in the times of Roman rule (Nero in particular) and during other periods of history as they watched their loved ones slain for the faith. What makes the Christians of the Great Tribulation period so special so as not to have to go through it?

I understand all of what you're saying, but I don't like it and I am beginning to believe that God is not as loving as all claim him to be if he would seriously allow death to fall upon those who have been faithful to him.....I'm not saying I have been perfect, in fact, been very far from it. But my love for God has NEVER wavered until just recently.......
 
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LovedofHim

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Everything I have been taught since I started going to church at 5 has said that if I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior, then I would not endure any of the tribulation as foretold in Revelation. NONE OF IT....understand????

So I read through almost 15 pages of comments from my fellow sisters and brothers in Christ and I am surprised that hardly anyone believes this......am I wrong in believing it then? Have all my pastors (there have been only 4) been wrong?

If so, and considering the events going on in the world (and sky) today, you're all telling me that since I am a very weak believer (I just "re-started" my journey with Christ a year ago), I am going feel God's wrath in the upcoming tribulation?

Better yet, you're all going to sit there and tell me that my perfect and wonderful 6 year old, who will be 7 in April :)thumbsup:) could potentially lose his life in this tribulation and is not going to be raptured to heaven before the age of accountability? Do you know what that makes me feel like right now?

It makes me feel like I have wasted 32 of my 37 years on this earth, believing in an entity....that truly never loved me to begin with or he wouldn't put parents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, etc. through the pain of knowing loved ones, no matter how strongly they believe, are going to die........

I'm off now....to spend what little days I have left with my child

If you are born of the Spirit, the only tribulation you are going to experience is what you have been experiencing all your life.

It is wrath (of which the cast-down devil and his antichrist is a part) that WE are not appointed to suffer.

Tribulation = wars, famines, plague, persecution, martyrdom which have been going on in frequency and intensity since Christ left. Tribulation ends before the 6th seal. It is the state of the world that every Christian has lived under and has the grace and authority to endure and overcome through the blood of Christ and the Spirit of God.

Jhn 16:33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Rev 1:9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rom 8:35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Act 14:22Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.


Wrath = Cast down devil, world reeling, cosmic disturbances, evil reigns and enslaves the world, each person's choice is either side with the devil or choose God (and die for it). No peace, no rest, nowhere to run, no overcoming by the blood of the Lamb, no hope unless it is hope in death/resurrection. Wrath begins at the 6th seal.

Isa 24:17Terror and pit and snare await you, O people of the earth.
Isa 24:18Whoever flees at the sound of terror will fall into a pit; whoever climbs out of the pit will be caught in a snare. The floodgates of the heavens are opened, the foundations of the earth shake.
Isa 24:19The earth is broken up, the earth is split asunder, the earth is thoroughly shaken.
Isa 24:20The earth reels like a drunkard, it sways like a hut in the wind; so heavy upon it is the guilt of its rebellion that it falls—never to rise again.
Isa 24:21In that day the LORD will punish the powers in the heavens above and the kings on the earth below.

Rev 9: 6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
 
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yedida

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I understand all of what you're saying, but I don't like it and I am beginning to believe that God is not as loving as all claim him to be if he would seriously allow death to fall upon those who have been faithful to him.....I'm not saying I have been perfect, in fact, been very far from it. But my love for God has NEVER wavered until just recently.......

As you followed these pages, did you notice that during the times that we are here it is NOT the wrath of God that we'll be/are facing? It's the wrath of satan against God's man and against God's rule. When God does pour his wrath out on humankind, it's on those who are rebellious, not on His faithful.
 
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LovedofHim

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I understand all of what you're saying, but I don't like it and I am beginning to believe that God is not as loving as all claim him to be if he would seriously allow death to fall upon those who have been faithful to him.....I'm not saying I have been perfect, in fact, been very far from it. But my love for God has NEVER wavered until just recently.......

This is the wrong time to be wavering about anything in your relationship to God. Read Job and what he went through and the God's reply - it's humbling and awesome.

Ask God for the new birth of the Spirit. Once you hear Him, your life will never be the same...and this life, well, you'll realize this life is nothing compared to what's coming.
 
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LovedofHim

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As you followed these pages, did you notice that during the times that we are here it is NOT the wrath of God that we'll be/are facing? It's the wrath of satan against God's man and against God's rule. When God does pour his wrath out on humankind, it's on those who are rebellious, not on His faithful.

NO! Satan will be ticked because he will have just been kicked down to the earth! God USES satan for God's purposes during that time. God allows satan to think he's "in control" but God is using him to force people to choose for eternity whom they will serve.

It's essentially "last call" for living humanity to make a decision.

God USES satan to destroy mystery babylon and to force people to choose.


Rev 17: 16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
 
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cf4rc said:

I would bet my life on the fact that the bloodline of every tribe exists somewhere in Israel right now...

That's probably right. For technically there are no lost tribes of Israel, insofar as the ten northern tribes of Israel weren't entirely lost to history. In 722 BC the northern kingdom of Israel fell and its members were taken into captivity into Assyria (2 Kings 18:11), never to return to the land of Israel. They and their descendants were lost to history. But the ten northern tribes in themselves weren't lost to history, because some 200 years before the captivity of the northern kingdom of Israel, when it had first become idolatrous, some members of all ten of the northern tribes of Israel had left the northern kingdom of Israel to become part of the southern kingdom of Judah (2 Chronicles 11:16-17), and so by definition they all became Jews.

That's why later, the Jews living in the first century AD could be referred to as including members from all twelve of the tribes of Israel (Acts 26:7, James 1:1), and why at that time, for example, Anna could be said to be of the northern tribe of Asher (Luke 2:36), one of the ten so-called "lost" tribes.

So the people living on the earth today who are descended genetically from a first century Jew would include members from all twelve of the tribes of Israel. Some of these descendants could know that they're Jews, because their individual ancestors over the last 2,000 years kept their Jewish identity and didn't intermarry with Gentiles. But others of these descendants could know themselves only as Gentiles, because their individual ancestors over the last 2,000 years didn't keep their Jewish identity, but eventually abandoned it and intermarried freely with Gentiles, to the point where their descendants today are almost entirely Gentile genetically.

Similarly, with regard to the members of the northern kingdom of Israel who were lost to history at its captivity, over the past 2,700 years their descendants could have eventually abandoned their Israelite identity and freely intermarried with Gentiles, to the point where their descendants living on the earth today could know themselves only as Gentiles, and be almost entirely Gentile genetically.

cf4rc said:

The re-establishment of Israel as a State on May 14, 1948 was, I believe, the beginning date for the shortened 70 year generation which will by no means pass away until all these things take place.

That's one possibility. For Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation that saw the 1948 re-establishment of Israel (which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree: Matthew 24:32-34, cf. Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43) won't pass until all the events of Matthew 24:5-31 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Luke 16:8b) won't pass away from the earth during the coming tribulation of Matthew 24/Revelation chapters 6-18, but that some of the elect will survive (Matthew 24:22) until the second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

Regarding the number of the days of the tribulation being shortened, Mark 13:20 could mean that if the Lord hadn't already determined (from the beginning of Creation, cf. Isaiah 46:10) that he would return immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31) events of Revelation chapters 6-18, immediately after the worldwide destruction of the seventh vial (Revelation 16:19, Revelation 19:2-21), but instead had determined to just let the world suffer through the aftermath of the seventh vial, then all flesh on the earth would die in the aftermath, which could involve a nuclear-winter scenario (which the Lord will miraculously prevent at his return) brought on by the ten kings of the Antichrist nuking all the cities of the world at the seventh vial (Revelation 17:16-17a, Revelation 16:19).
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yedida

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NO! Satan will be ticked because he will have just been kicked down to the earth! God USES satan for God's purposes during that time. God allows satan to think he's "in control" but God is using him to force people to choose for eternity whom they will serve.

It's essentially "last call" for living humanity to make a decision.

God USES satan to destroy mystery babylon and to force people to choose.


Rev 17: 16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

You're not saying anything different from what I said. What has gone on up to this point, and up to the Wrath of God, is the wrath of satan. Those who are faithful and stand firm in God will NOT see the wrath of GOD.
I'm not gonna rehash this. If you don't like the way I said it, that's quite alright, it won't bother me at all. It's time to put this baby to bed.
 
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zeke37

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Everything I have been taught since I started going to church at 5 has said that if I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior, then I would not endure any of the tribulation as foretold in Revelation. NONE OF IT....understand????

Hello sister...:wave:
yep...i understand.


So I read through almost 15 pages of comments from my fellow sisters and brothers in Christ and I am surprised that hardly anyone believes this......am I wrong in believing it then? Have all my pastors (there have been only 4) been wrong?

if they taught you that, then yes.

If so, and considering the events going on in the world (and sky) today, you're all telling me that since I am a very weak believer (I just "re-started" my journey with Christ a year ago), I am going feel God's wrath in the upcoming tribulation?

no...the tribulation is NOT God's wrath, it is Satan's wrath...see Rev12...
a time, times and 1/2 a time, locks in this time frame as the tribulation.


we are, if we be faithful, kept from the wrath of God that follows the tribulation

Better yet, you're all going to sit there and tell me that my perfect and wonderful 6 year old, who will be 7 in April :)thumbsup:) could potentially lose his life in this tribulation and is not going to be raptured to heaven before the age of accountability? Do you know what that makes me feel like right now?

i have a 14 month old, and a 4 year old and an 11 year old...
when I re-started as you say....born again as others say...those same fears and thoughts ran through my mind.
my children's safety and the trib time.


my studies have concluded that there are basically two groups of believers in the end times....
those that are faithful to Christ, those sealed ones called elect
and those that are not faithful to Christ, who will instead worship the false Christ

those that are not faithful to Christ cannot be killed by the locust army or it's leader (Satan), as told in Rev9...

so no death for them in the trib.

the faithfull elect, are likewise protected to be gathered to Christ when He comes a gatherin'.
we can also read about the protection of the elect in Mat24/Mar13/Luk21...

11And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19In your patience possess ye your souls.



i know it sounds wierd, but get ready for the supernatural...

Satan is coming here himself and he will pretend to be Jesus returned and fool the world,

including most Christians


the death here in vs 16 is not literal...
it is a name of Satan...mr death,

he who has the power of death...Heb1


as you can see, these that are put to/delivered up to death

are also protected so not even a hair on their head is hurt....as stated in verse 18

patience is emphasized.


It makes me feel like I have wasted 32 of my 37 years on this earth, believing in an entity....that truly never loved me to begin with or he wouldn't put parents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, etc. through the pain of knowing loved ones, no matter how strongly they believe, are going to die........

I'm off now....to spend what little days I have left with my child
i think someone taught you very incorrectly sis.

in the trib...either one is fooled and cannot be killed, on God's order...Rev9
or one is sealed and protected for a witness against the false Christ and his kingdom...in Luk21


Rev is full of metaphor and symbology....

but the gathering to Christ, or rapture, happens after the entire series of events is over...
that is the whole point....
and it happens when the dead are raised....so that is obviously after.


remember this.

God loves you and your child...very much...
He knows you love Him
and He will do exactly what is right for both you and your son....
even if you cannot understand that right now.

trust Him.
 
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zeke37

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I understand all of what you're saying, but I don't like it and I am beginning to believe that God is not as loving as all claim him to be if he would seriously allow death to fall upon those who have been faithful to him.....I'm not saying I have been perfect, in fact, been very far from it. But my love for God has NEVER wavered until just recently.......
hello again....
God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

IMO death will NOT come to those that are faithful (or unfaithful) to Him during the trib,
except for the 2 olive trees of Rev11...

remember that it is the wrath of Satan that is coming,
and God's seal can see you through that wrath just fine.

nothing can stand against the wrath of God,
but God can stand against the wrath of Satan...and see us through it.
being sealed with the truth means that you cannot be tempted in that temptation hour


we are gathered to Christ after the wrath of Satan.
 
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LovedofHim

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You're not saying anything different from what I said. What has gone on up to this point, and up to the Wrath of God, is the wrath of satan. Those who are faithful and stand firm in God will NOT see the wrath of GOD.
I'm not gonna rehash this. If you don't like the way I said it, that's quite alright, it won't bother me at all. It's time to put this baby to bed.

Please show me the scripture that says the church, who overcomes the devil by the blood of the Lamb and who was given authority by Jesus to overcome all the power of the devil so that nothing will harm us, is subject to "the wrath of satan".

Luk 10:19I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.

My Bible shows the church dwelling in heaven, warning the earth that the devil has just been cast down, followed by the newly-empowered antichrist blaspheming the church who is dwelling in heaven:


Rev 12:10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.



Rev 13: 5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
 
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yedida

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Please show me the scripture that says the church, who overcomes the devil by the blood of the Lamb and who was given authority by Jesus to overcome all the power of the devil so that nothing will harm us, is subject to "the wrath of satan".

Luk 10:19I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.

My Bible shows the church dwelling in heaven, warning the earth that the devil has just been cast down, followed by the newly-empowered antichrist blaspheming the church who is dwelling in heaven:


Rev 12:10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.



Rev 13: 5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.


What part of "not going to rehash" do you not understand?
Check out the choice of words in your first demand - "Overcomes".
Check the previous pages of study, it's all mapped out.
If you feel you must carry on, please direct your questions to someone else. You are derailing this thread, you need to get back on track with the OP or as I suggested before, start a new thread.
 
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CryptoLutheran

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Everything I have been taught since I started going to church at 5 has said that if I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior, then I would not endure any of the tribulation as foretold in Revelation. NONE OF IT....understand????

So I read through almost 15 pages of comments from my fellow sisters and brothers in Christ and I am surprised that hardly anyone believes this......am I wrong in believing it then? Have all my pastors (there have been only 4) been wrong?

I know what that's like. I took the Dispensationalism I had been raised with as a given. For me it was synonymous with Christianity, I didn't know the word "Dispensationalist" exist, I didn't know it was a theological and hermeneutical system distinct from other theological and hermeneutical systems, it was just "what Christians believed".

Granted, I found myself abandoning my Dispensationalism by the time I was out of high school, which was when I began finding most of what I had been raised to believe being challenged and questioned.

If so, and considering the events going on in the world (and sky) today, you're all telling me that since I am a very weak believer (I just "re-started" my journey with Christ a year ago), I am going feel God's wrath in the upcoming tribulation?

Christ said, "In this world you will have tribulation, but take courage, I have conquered the world."

Trials, tribulations, trouble are all part of what it means to follow Christ in this world. Consider the Apostles, imprisoned and beaten, hated and despised. They were stoned to death, beheaded, crucified, torn from limb from limb. Consider the trials those Christians faced under Nero, who nailed them on crosses, covered them in tar and oil and lit them on fire to light his imperial gardens. Consider St. Ignatius of Antioch, disciple of St. John who as an old man was led from Antioch to Rome to face his death. St. Polycarp of Smyrna who was lit on fire as a spectacle. St. Justin, St. Perpetua and all the martyrs. Consider the twenty-six martyrs of Nagasaki, who were all crucified--the youngest of them being thirteen years old--because being a Christian was outlawed in Japan by the Tokugawa shogunate.

For Christ's sake we have been crucified, beaten, flogged, imprisoned, tortured, spit on, hated, set on fire, fed to wild beasts, trampled upon, had our limbs torn from our bodies, for two thousand years we have faced trial after trial, sometimes greater or lesser. But there are always Neros, Diocletians, and Tokugawas in this world.

"In this world you will have tribulation, but take courage, I have conquered the world."

Better yet, you're all going to sit there and tell me that my perfect and wonderful 6 year old, who will be 7 in April :)thumbsup:) could potentially lose his life in this tribulation and is not going to be raptured to heaven before the age of accountability? Do you know what that makes me feel like right now?

Again, there's always tribulation. Mothers have lost their children, and children have lost their mothers throughout history. It's horrible, tragic, ugly. Of course it is. But that's the world we live in.

Instead, trust in God for His mercy both for your salvation and your child's. He is a God of good justice and unlimited grace.

It makes me feel like I have wasted 32 of my 37 years on this earth, believing in an entity....that truly never loved me to begin with or he wouldn't put parents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, etc. through the pain of knowing loved ones, no matter how strongly they believe, are going to die........

I think, unfortunately, this is the fruit of Dispensationalism. Christ never promised us that life would be easy. Our comfort here in the West is an abnormality. Most people in the world suffer. They are hungry, they are dying from starvation, disease (including HIV), malnutrition. There are countless orphans in Africa who lost their mothers and fathers from brutal war and AIDS, many of them are HIV positive themselves, born into the world HIV positive.

This is not a fair world.

But we have a God who loves us, who sent His Son to come and share in our sufferings, who has united Himself with our weak and frail human flesh, who suffered under a ruthless tyrant, was crucified, buried, dead and rose from the dead. He has conquered sin and death. He has defeated the devil and overcome this world. In Him we are reconciled to God and invited to share in Christ's life and Christ's work. We have an opportunity to look forward to the Coming World and, in hope for that reality, invest our energies into making this world a little bit more like that world. We have the opportunity in Jesus to go out and love our neighbor, to embrace the hurting, to give food to the hungry, to give drink to the thirsty, to give clothes to the naked, to give friendship to the immigrant. We have an opportunity to be a light, to be salt of the earth, a city on a hill. We have that opportunity, it's ours in Christ, to partner with Him as He works in the world to change lives and love the loveless and the unwanted.

I'm off now....to spend what little days I have left with my child

Despite what the so-called "prophecy experts" say, there are not signs and wonders. Those who say the End is coming just around the corner have been saying that forever, they've been saying that since before the current generation of "experts" were even a glimmer in their daddy's eye. We've been living in the Last Days for two thousand years, it began on Pentecost and continues until now.

The End could come tomorrow, or it come in ten thousand years. Nobody knows the day or the hour. Nobody.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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LovedofHim

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What part of "not going to rehash" do you not understand?
Check out the choice of words in your first demand - "Overcomes".
Check the previous pages of study, it's all mapped out.
If you feel you must carry on, please direct your questions to someone else. You are derailing this thread, you need to get back on track with the OP or as I suggested before, start a new thread.
"Dwelling in heaven" refers to "being taken", yedida.

The people who are on earth during the time of wrath are NEVER said to be overcomers BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB but instead it actually says they are judged by WORKS.

The only people doing anything in the blood of the Lamb is the church.

Do you see the difference?
 
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Please show me the scripture that says the church, who overcomes the devil by the blood of the Lamb and who was given authority by Jesus to overcome all the power of the devil so that nothing will harm us, is subject to "the wrath of satan".

Luk 10:19I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.

My Bible shows the church dwelling in heaven, warning the earth that the devil has just been cast down, followed by the newly-empowered antichrist blaspheming the church who is dwelling in heaven:


Rev 12:10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.



Rev 13: 5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Here is where the problem lies. You see since birth we have been lied to. Every time we witnessed a family member pass, we were lied to. "Oh, grandpa went to heaven". This is a boldfaced lie. As big a lie as satan claws.

There is "NO ONE" in heaven except God ALmighty, His Son our Lord, His angels, and maybe Enoch and Elijah who have already been translated. Enoch and Elijah come again, many say, but God ALmighty, Jesus, and the angels are who satan is blaspheming. His tabernacle is heaven itself. His throne. satan wants us to believe there is NO god, but perhaps humanity itself or aliens or whatever. Advance civilization is who he wants us to consider is god. And when God smashes this earth, it will be satan/ac/maitreyas whatever who restores it to a new technological eden, making all who submit to him, gods themselves, christs themselves. Elevated consciousness is heaven blah blah blah.

When we die, we take the sleep. There are dozens of passages relating to this FACT, even by our Majesty Himself. When we sleep, thousands of years might pass, and when we are awakened, it will be but in a brief moment. In other words, on that very day, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses and my grandmother will ALL be resurrected at the SAME EXACT MOMENT. Me too if I should die. Jesus Christ is NOT only the FIRSTBORN of the dead, meaning He is the first to have been resurrected by the Father, He is the ONLY person to have been resurrected. Sure, Lazurus and others have been raised back to mortal life, but it is Our Lord Jesus Alone, who has been raised eternal.

We MUST understand this FACT if we can even begin to understand the nature of resurrection to begin with. The dead are raised first. We watch, then in the blink of an eye, we begin our ascent as did our Lord.

satan and his followers will watch this, and ready themselves for war. Then they will be destroyed by His coming. The rebellion at the very end of the millenium is another subject altogether, but this is how it WILL be.
 
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