Islam Vs Christianity

[Ar Cosc]

John didn't know about the English Channel. Therefore Jesus let the Euphrates symbolize the English channel. The Revelation is full of symbolism.

But John didn't know what a horsepower was either. You're just going round in circles my murderous little friend.

 

[interpreter]

But John didn't know what a horsepower was either. You're just going round in circles my murderous little friend.

Yes, John didn't know what horsepower was. So what? Jesus clearly did.

 

[Ar Cosc]

Yes, John didn't know what horsepower was. So what? Jesus clearly did.

So why did Jesus explain what a horsepower was to John, and not what an "English Channel" was? Surely John wasn't too stupid to understand the concept of a body of water, somewhere a long way to the northwest. And if Jesus just showed John the picture, and John mistook the English channel for the Euphrates, how did he make the connection between the lumbering metal beasts spewing fire, and horses? And even if he did see all of this, and vaguely understand what its significance was, how could he tell at a glance that the sum total of the powers of all of the vehicles he could see was equal to X million horses?

How do we know Stalin wasn't the antichrist, and John didn't see all those horses pouring across the Don into the Soviet Union? After all, Nazi Germany was just as much of a Christian Nation as the US.

How are you certain your own interpretation of some highly cryptic bible verses is the absolute right one, when you seem to be the only person in the world who believes them?

 

[TG123]

In a time of war, there is no time to preach the Gospel to the enemy.

On the contrary, it is the ideal time to preach and live out the Gospel. What is more powerful testimony to Christ than loving people who are trying to kill you? Anyone can love their enemies in a time of peace.

You do not agree that ruling for 1000 years is quite an acheivement, and cannot be accomplished without blessings from God?

Given the fact that China lasted for over 1000 years, I do not believe it is that great of an achievement and can be accomplished without God's blessings- unless you are suggesting that God has blessed China's Taoist and Buddhist and communist rulers.

Also Israel was not a huge empire, certainly not a world power and you are claiming that a country must be a superpower to be one of the horsemen of the Revelation. Israel ruled no more land than Poland. So Poland can still be one of the horsemen according to your definition.

Then why are they called men?

They are called horsemen, not men.

Why in the world would you say Ronald Reagan was an antichrist? He was a Christian, and I'm pretty sure he is in heaven, not hell.

His foreign policies contributed to the deaths of over 300,000 mainly Christians in Guatemala and 70,000 mainly Christians in El Salvador. He also backed Israel in its vicious bombing of Lebanon as well as the apartheid regime, as well as Saddam Hussein. He armed and financed some of the worst mass murderers in the history of post-Stalinist 20th century. He backed terrorism and genocide. He brought death and destruction to hundreds of thousands of innocent people around the world.

All Bible prophecies are full of symbolism. It is obvious to everyone reading it, except you.

Show me where the Bible says Revelation is symbolic.

It says manufactured horses, which can only mean horsepower under the hood.

It could mean anything, not necessarily. It definitely did not refer to D-Day, and I will tell you why.

There were far less than 200 million tanks and amphbious vehicles used on D-Day.

The whole operation involved 355,700 soldiers and navy personnel. In total that is 355,700 people. Assuming that each one of them had his own vehicle, that would make less than 400,000 vehicles in total, and far less than 200 million.

The passage lists 200 million manufactured horsemen. Assuming that this refers to tanks (it doesn't), it does not refer to D-Day.

It is obvious to even a casual observer that it is full of symbolism.

It is obvious to most people reading this thread that you are abusing the Bible to meet your own political agenda.

Christian Russia didn't last 1000 years.

Sure it did. Even under communist domination, most Russians remained Christian. Do you believe that the rulers of the Holy Roman Empire who massacred Jews and Muslims and Christians were following Jesus? Of course not!

Wrong. Read Luke 19:27.

I did. Read Luke 6:27-36.

St. Constantine was neither a pagan or a murderer. He rode a white horse and with a bow conquered all the known world for Jesus and His Church.

He was a sun worshipper. If you think you can worship the sun and not be a pagan, then either you don't know what a pagan is or you are not a Christian. By conquering people, Constantine was disobeying Jesus and making the Gospel synonymous with oppression and murder. Jesus came to bring life. Constantine brought death.

wrong. War is war, and not the time to be reaching out to the enemy.

We are called to follow Jesus during times of both war and peace. Loving your enemies is most difficult- and leaves the most powerful testament to God's glory- during times when they are trying to kill you.

Everyone who was outside when it wasn’t too cloudy saw it.

Name me another person who did.

You can see it too with any good star-tracking software.

What? Please don't tell me you are trying to peddle something.

Murder is a crime, but a soldier killing the enemies of Christ is not murder.

Most victims of war are civilians- even if you call them "collateral damage" it does not change the fact that they are innocent. It is murder.

How can you stoop to denigrating a saint?

Constantine was not a saint.

God’s name is not Allah.

Allah simply means God in Arabic. Dios means God in Spanish, Bog in Polish, Dieu in French. Are you suggesting that God only understands English?

The rest of chapter 7, and the next few chapters is about the great tribulation, so the 144,000 are sealed before the great tribulation of WW II. And afterwards they show up on mount zion.

The great tribulation does not mean the Holocaust- the end of it did not bring about Christ's second coming.

Right. The 4 horsemen do not come from heaven

They came out of seals broken open by the Lamb of God, in heaven.

The peacemakers will have their way for a thousand years. But first the Battle of Ar Mageddon must come.

The Battle of Armageddon is not taking place. It will be fought by God, not the US.

There you go again, getting things “bass-ackwards.”

Just because you are unable to spell backwards properly does not prove you correct. The war in Iraq resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands innocent Iraqi civilians, thousands of coalition soldiers, and a resurgence of Al Qaeda in Iraq. Only Satan would see it as a good thing.

Hitler was not able to strike the USA. Japan did.

He struck the Jews.

Again, they were 200 million manufactured horses, which can only mean the horsepower released in one day against Hitler the antichrist.

Only that there were far less than 200 million vehicles used in D-Day, and a manufactured horse does not have to be a tank. Maybe they are horses that come straight from heaven that God specially designed and made to be used in war to destroy Satan?

 

[Ar Cosc]

Only that there were far less than 200 million vehicles used in D-Day, and a manufactured horse does not have to be a tank. Maybe they are horses that come straight from heaven that God specially designed and made to be used in war to destroy Satan?

Just looked at the stats for the Sherman tank. It was the most numerous Western Allied tank in operation in WW2. It had a 350hp engine, and 50,000 were made. Even if every single Sherman ever built was dumped onto those Normany beaches, it's still only 17.5 million horsepower. Or less than a tenth of what Interpreter is claiming. And every single Sherman ever built was certainly not dropped onto those beaches.

 

[TG123]

What translation are you quoting? The spirit of prophecy is not a who, but a way of testifying to Jesus.

NIV. Which one are you using?

We are to figure out the Revelation so it can be a testimony to Jesus.

The Revelation is part of the Bible. It is already testimony to Jesus. He doesn't need us to 'figure it out' so we can know which political leaders to follow. Especially not if doing so means buying into a pro-war agenda that denies His teachings.

That is what I have been trying to tell you. The 4 horsemen are called men, so they can't be from heaven.

They are called horsemen, not men. They come from seals which will be broken apart in heaven by the Lamb of God, therefore they will come from heaven.

D-Day is just one of the good things foretold by the Revealtion, and just one of the good things pointed to by the 21 vectors of the starguide of ch. 1.

But the verse says all good things foretold. If D-Day wasd one one of these things, and not all of them, the verse does not apply to it.

In all the videos of the Hebron demonstations that I have seen, there was rock throwing.

Did you watch the videos from my blog?

In a war, there is always colateral damage.

That is an ungodly way of excusing killing innocent people. It is the result of disobeying Jesus and going to war with your enemies. It won't fly when you face Him on Judgement Day.

Wrong. In the case of Islamic terrorists, innocent civilians are not colateral damage, they are the main target.

As is in the case of the biggest terrorist armed force in the world- the US Air Force, Army, Navy and Marines.

The US and Isareli armies did what they had to do.

I'm sure every suicide bomber uses the same excuse. So did the SS. This is the kind of company you are placing yourself with.

Christian Russia was defeated by the Soviets at the end of WW I, and Russia is no longer considered a superpower.

Russia is still a worldpower and Christian Russia was not defeated because most Russians remained Christian. One of America's founders, Jefferson, was a deist not a Christian.

I'm sorry you have such a low opinion of my Christian nation which was founded by Christians.

Which of the facts I listed do you claim is false? The genocide of the First Nations peoples? Enslavement and discrimination against African Americans? The conquest and murder of people in South and Latin America?

They are all well-known historical facts. Do you believe you can follow Jesus and mistreat and kill people who have done you absolutely no harm?

Yes, US Christians should get more involved in politics.

And resist the foreign policies waged by their leaders that involve war and supporting dictatorships, as well as economically hurting their neighbours. But neither Democrats or Republicans care about these things.

 

[TG123]

Just looked at the stats for the Sherman tank. It was the most numerous Western Allied tank in operation in WW2. It had a 350hp engine, and 50,000 were made. Even if every single Sherman ever built was dumped onto those Normany beaches, it's still only 17.5 million horsepower. Or less than a tenth of what Interpreter is claiming. And every single Sherman ever built was certainly not dropped onto those beaches.

Looking forward to his response. I hope that you are not taken in by his claims that the Bible justifies the politics he is preaching.

 

[Ar Cosc]

Looking forward to his response. I hope that you are not taken in by his claims that the Bible justifies the politics he is preaching.

Of course not. Nothing would justify what he is preaching!

 

[TG123]

Looking forward to his response. I hope that you are not taken in by his claims that the Bible justifies the politics he is preaching.

Our discussion on this thread started when I challenged people to justify war using the Bible. Only he stepped up. My purpose is to demonstrate to him and to others watching the debate that the Bible in full not only does not support war but also makes it impossible for people to wage it and follow Jesus at the same time.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Originally Posted by interpreter http://www.christianforums.com/t7507246-post56722941/#post56722941
The rest of chapter 7, and the next few chapters is about the great tribulation, so the 144,000 are sealed before the great tribulation of WW II. And afterwards they show up on mount zion.

Originally Posted by interpreter http://www.christianforums.com/t7507246-post56722941/#post56722941
Again, they were 200 million manufactured horses, which can only mean the horsepower released in one day against Hitler the antichrist.

Originally Posted by interpreter http://www.christianforums.com/t7507246-post56723149/#post56723149
We are to figure out the Revelation so it can be a testimony to Jesus.

Originally Posted by interpreter http://www.christianforums.com/t7507246-post56723149/#post56723149
That is what I have been trying to tell you. The 4 horsemen are called men, so they can't be from heaven.

Originally Posted by interpreter http://www.christianforums.com/t7507246-post56723149/#post56723149
D-Day is just one of the good things foretold by the Revealtion, and just one of the good things pointed to by the 21 vectors of the starguide of ch. 1

.


Interpreter
I have just quoted a few of your posts above where you tell everyone about Revelation.

I don’t know the reason that you present yourself as the Interpreter of the book of Revelation. However, if you value the Bible more than your reasons for continuing to tell everyone your opinion of Revelation then maybe you may want to consider a few verses from Revelation below:

Revelation 22 (King James Version)

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[interpreter]

So why did Jesus explain what a horsepower was to John, and not what an "English Channel" was? Surely John wasn't too stupid to understand the concept of a body of water, somewhere a long way to the northwest. And if Jesus just showed John the picture, and John mistook the English channel for the Euphrates, how did he make the connection between the lumbering metal beasts spewing fire, and horses? And even if he did see all of this, and vaguely understand what its significance was, how could he tell at a glance that the sum total of the powers of all of the vehicles he could see was equal to X million horses?

Jesus didn't expain to John what a horsepower was, but He explained it for today's Christians who know what a horespower is. John heard the number of the horses.

How do we know Stalin wasn't the antichrist, and John didn't see all those horses pouring across the Don into the Soviet Union? After all, Nazi Germany was just as much of a Christian Nation as the US.

Hitler's Third Reich (or Third Reign of Rome) is the third six of the 666 trilogy.

How are you certain your own interpretation of some highly cryptic bible verses is the absolute right one, when you seem to be the only person in the world who believes them?

Back when I published the Last Days Chronicle, I had hundreds of readers, thank you. Whether they all agreed with me, I don't know.

 

[Ar Cosc]

Jesus didn't expain to John what a horsepower was, but He explained it for today's Christians who know what a horespower is. John heard the number of the horses.

Today's Christians know what an English Channel is. And we're back where we started.

Hitler's Third Reich (or Third Reign of Rome) is the third six of the 666 trilogy.

So you keep saying. Chapter and Verse of Revelations, please. Or else you're just making it up.

Back when I published the Last Days Chronicle, I had hundreds of readers, thank you. Whether they all agreed with me, I don't know.

Hundreds of readers, out of over a billion Christians, some of whom may even have agreed with you. That's less than impressive, I'm afraid.

 

[interpreter]

But John didn't know what a horsepower was either. You're just going round in circles my murderous little friend.

Right, John did not know what a horepower was. How is that going around in circles?

 

[Ar Cosc]

Right, John did not know what a horepower was. How is that going around in circles?

John didn't know what a horsepower was, and John didn't know what an English Channel was. Why would Jesus give him the one he would find very difficult to comprehend, and yet for the very simple one, give him a misleading answer.

You have also failed to answer the points raised by myself and TG123, that there was considerably less than 200 million horsepower landed on the Normandy Beaches. There were 175,000 Allied troops in the invasion force. Even if every single one of them was in a Sherman Tank, that would still only come to 61 million horsepower. If Jesus can see through time, he's fairly unlikely to have made an error in his arithmetic.

 

[interpreter]

Today's Christians know what an English Channel is. And we're back where we started.

Jesus also didn't want to tip off the enemy, in this case, Hitler.

So you keep saying. Chapter and Verse of Revelations, please. Or else you're just making it up.

Pagan Rome is the original head # 6 (see Rev. 17:10). Hitler's Third Reich is the third six in the 666 trilogy (Rev. 13:18).

Hundreds of readers, out of over a billion Christians, some of whom may even have agreed with you. That's less than impressive, I'm afraid.

That was pretty good for Bay City, Texas (population 17,000).

 

[Ar Cosc]

Jesus also didn't want to tip off the enemy, in this case, Hitler.

He didn't give a date, or an exact location. Telling Hitler an invasion might come from the general direction in which allied troops were massing at some point during the war is hardly tipping him off.

Pagan Rome is the original head # 6 (see Rev. 17:10). Hitler's Third Reich is the third six in the 666 trilogy (Rev. 13:18).

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

And this says Hitler how, exactly?

That was pretty good for Bay City, Texas (population 17,000).

And yet not one person on a 50 page thread on one of the largest Christian communities on the internet has agreed with you.

 

[interpreter]

John didn't know what a horsepower was, and John didn't know what an English Channel was. Why would Jesus give him the one he would find very difficult to comprehend, and yet for the very simple one, give him a misleading answer.

I don't understand your question. Are you questioning the fact that in the Revelation, Jesus always uses symbolism, much in the same way as in the Gospels when Jesus always talked in parables?

You have also failed to answer the points raised by myself and TG123, that there was considerably less than 200 million horsepower landed on the Normandy Beaches. There were 175,000 Allied troops in the invasion force. Even if every single one of them was in a Sherman Tank, that would still only come to 61 million horsepower. If Jesus can see through time, he's fairly unlikely to have made an error in his arithmetic.

You have to include the horsepower of the landing craft, and the horsepower of the air support.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Jesus also didn't want to tip off the enemy, in this case, Hitler.

What makes Hitler any less the enemy to Jesus than, say, you?

2 Peter 2:1-3 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Pagan Rome is the original head # 6 (see Rev. 17:10). Hitler's Third Reich is the third six in the 666 trilogy (Rev. 13:18).

So where are the sixes?

That was pretty good for Bay City, Texas (population 17,000).

Popularity means what insofar as truth is concerned?

 

[Ar Cosc]

You have to include the horsepower of the landing craft, and the horsepower of the air support.

So if every soldier had their own tank, and their own personal landing craft, and every Spitfire, Hurricane and Lancaster ever made, in air support, you get up to about 180 million horsepower. You're still falling well short.

 

[interpreter]

Just looked at the stats for the Sherman tank. It was the most numerous Western Allied tank in operation in WW2. It had a 350hp engine, and 50,000 were made. Even if every single Sherman ever built was dumped onto those Normany beaches, it's still only 17.5 million horsepower. Or less than a tenth of what Interpreter is claiming. And every single Sherman ever built was certainly not dropped onto those beaches.

I don't know where you get your misinformation. The tanks unloaded on D-day all had from 400 to 500 horsepower according to wikipedia. Add to that the horsepower of everything from the Jeeps to the Naval vehicles involved, and the air support.