lone soldier
Regular Member
Just because people go against the bible doesn't make it correct... :/
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Just because people go against the bible doesn't make it correct... :/
Genesis 3:16 was a curse, but it's not a doctrine. If there was a curse, Christ undid it.
Then you assert that women are morally and spiritually inferior. Consistency IS good.
I asserted no such thing. But I am being more honest with what the scripture says in light of undeniable realities.
Even if that curse is still intact, it's not spiritual law. I still believe Christ undid it, considering it's spiritual nature. If it were true, then women would be incapable of leading anywhere. The divide between the spiritual and the secular is a wall we built ourselves. (For good or for ill, hippies.
Most? I thought all of Christianity was a sort of cafeteria religion.
Women's spiritual inferiority is implied even though people fight to pretend like that is not the case. It has been for centuries.
1) Women still have pain in childbirth
2) The ground is still "cursed" - it still brings forth thorns and thistles/weeds and so forth
3) We must still toil to eat
4) We still return to the ground
So if Christ lifted the curse - none of the above should be true, along with the first part of vrs 16.
The fact remains that we are still sinful creatures. Christ transforms us and redeems us - but the sinful nature, and it's consequences, remain.
The penalty for sin, however - death - not only physical but eternal seperation from God - has been lifted.
Balugon said:This is where your error is. Because you do not see the curses having been lifted (as an event) yet, you assume they were meant to stay. But is it not true that even eternal life is a choice? Even though Jesus died for our sins and opened up the way to heaven, people still have to choose holiness and salvation now, and some still go to Hell. In the same way, whether the ground is cursed or not is still linked to how we act and treat it (and how we treat God), just like it was written in Deut 28: " 1 If you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today...8 The LORD will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to. The LORD your God will bless you in the land he is giving you. ...11 The LORD will grant you abundant prosperityin the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your groundin the land he swore to your ancestors to give you. ...
15 However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today...23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron...38 You will sow much seed in the field but you will harvest little, because locusts will devour it. 39 You will plant vineyards and cultivate them but you will not drink the wine or gather the grapes, because worms will eat them. 40 You will have olive trees throughout your country but you will not use the oil, because the olives will drop off."
Even pain during childbearing is only temporary until we come up with technology to change that situation. As is death, because if the human race was allowed to develop long enough, we would come up with replaceable parts for all our body organs so that we could effectively live forever. It is up to us to choose to not live in the bondage that the Fall created, and part of that problem was treating women as second class and ruling over them. It's such an easy choice to make, and there is no good scientific evidence that indicates that women are any less capable of leading than men. And with that, we shouldn't be holding them back. And again, if humans are allowed to get technologically advanced enough, there will be no sex differences in the future, and so there will be able to be no argument in this area. And there is even Scriptural indication that it may be like this in Heaven: "30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven." Matthew 22:30
What's funny is women seem to have higher status in early Christianity than they do now. Christianity strikes me as having been pretty progressive when it comes to the rights and capabilities of women. I wonder what changed.
I wonder too. It would make a fascinating topic of discussion.
In other words, you believe the relevant passages in Timothy and Corinthians are fabrications of man and therefore not God-breathed.
Face it - most of practiced, organised Christianity is a pick and choose religion, changing translations and heavy, reaching "interpretation" to fit whatever popular current thought is at the moment.