Body Scanners and why they're just terrible

[kiwimac]

You are aware that Israel which actually does have a security problem does not do these enhanced pat-downs? Or use Back scatter scanners?

 

[TigerKanga]

We do have the right to travel unmolested. The scans and gropings are an infringement upon that right. So are speed traps and check points.

 

[Jade Margery]

Ok. So I read the article about the guy's pregnant wife. To me he sounds like he was surly, arrogant, and unruly --- just with his own security search. Being upset because they asked to examine his ball-cap? Really. It's their job. And a woman security officer "touched my wife's breasts". OH NO. It's a security search. That's what they do. It's not like the security officer was male and copped a feel.

These self-righteous, I-am-better-than-you-because-i'm-rich, self-involved people need to simply try DRIVING if they don't want to fly. Jeez.

He was annoyed that they checked his cap. He was upset because of this:

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]After some more grumbling on my part they eventually finished with me and I went to retrieve our luggage from the x-ray machine. Upon returning I found my wife sitting in a chair, crying. Mary rarely cries, and certainly not in public. When I asked her what was the matter, she tried to quell her tears and sobbed, "I’m sorry...it’s...they touched my breasts...and..." That’s all I heard. I marched up to the woman who’d been examining her and shouted, "What did you do to her?" Later I found out that in addition to touching her swollen breasts – to protect the American citizenry – the employee had asked that she lift up her shirt. Not behind a screen, not off to the side – no, right there, directly in front of the hundred or so passengers standing in line. And for you women who’ve been pregnant and worn maternity pants, you know how ridiculous those things look. "I felt like a clown," my wife told me later. "On display for all these people, with the cotton panel on my pants and my stomach sticking out. When I sat down I just lost my composure and began to cry. That’s when you walked up."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]

I don't know about you, but I do not generally let anyone, male or female, touch my breasts. But hey, if you're cool with it, why not let me give your address to my bisexual roommate? It's not like she's going to cop a feel... right? Or is it only okay if she has a little badge and gets paid to do it?

And let's do it in a public place where you have to pull your shirt up too. And then tell me it's not something to be upset about.

Way to trivialize other people's humiliation.

Of course, that's not that bad compared to what happened to them next. Habeas Shmabeas, eh?
[/FONT]

 

[TigerKanga]

I know a guy who ran afoul of the LAPD when he was out with his girlfriend. There were two cops who frisked him and his gf. The guy quickly frisked him and the female cop smiled at her partner and took her time running her hands all over my friend's gf. My friend said the female cop was a bull something or other. Anyways, searching people can be undignified even if men search men and women search women.

 

[BlackSabb]

I really can't stand people's predictable willingness to be as lemmings and go along with whatever "authority" wants to feed them. So when full body scanners and ridiculous pat downs get implemented at the airports, why do more people not see this as a direct infringement on our constitutional rights? I'm starting to believe that people are just dumb and don't want to take 5 seconds to turn off the television and have a single thought to call their own. They'd rather just sit down, let corporations tell them what's what, and "go with the flow." I hate to be a "slippery slope" kinda guy, but if things keep going this way then we won't be any different from the society in Idiocracy. This whole Body Scanner thing gets shuffled under the rug because it only affects the few people that are flying, and actually the even fewer people that get pulled aside. I was ready to say, "oh that won't affect me," but apparently they do totally random searches so I was wrong.
What sets me off is that this whole this is completely emblematic of the nation today. Only a small number of people, we call them "alarmists" actually call attention to the fact that our rights are being infringed upon. Then the mainstream media reacts by publishing some story where some "average joe" says "well I don't like my body being scanned but it's nice to feel safer at the airport" ... hey average Joe, your stupidity boggles my mind! If you were that concerned with your "safety" you wouldn't have been speeding on your way to work the other day. How do I know you were speeding?...I know because everyone does it. The truth is that speeding on your way to work poses a threat to your safety that's ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE greater than any lack of body scanners at the airport. The real reason for the body scanners is that the airlines know that if JUST ONE of their aircraft gets hijacked then their sales will decline disproportionately.
The reality of the situation is that people's rights are being infringed upon significantly, while we gain a negligible amount of added safety. It's not for the sake of the people it's clearly for the sake of corporate profits. This, to me, is such a big deal because it marks an end to normal people staying informed and giving a damn, and it marks a new age of exploitation of people by corporate "America".

Let me tell you something buddy. If my mother, father or wife were travelling on a plane, I couldn't care less about your "constitutional rights". If there's any chance that they would be safer from a madman or terrorist, then I am all for it. Your "rights" mean nothing to me when it's me or my loved ones travelling in a pressured metal tube 10,000ft above sea level at 700km/h.

Leftist civil libertarians make me sick to my stomach.

 

[Jade Margery]

Let me tell you something buddy. If my mother, father or wife were travelling on a plane, I couldn't care less about your "constitutional rights". If there's any chance that they would be safer from a madman or terrorist, then I am all for it. Your "rights" mean nothing to me when it's me or my loved ones travelling in a pressured metal tube 10,000ft above sea level at 700km/h.

Leftist civil libertarians make me sick to my stomach.

I'm sure the founding fathers would be proud.


And I sure hope you don't let your mother, father, or wife ride in a car. I mean, obviously everyone would have to get off the road for them and the speed limit would have to be set at twenty-five, period. "Any chance that they would be safer", right?

Everyone has loved ones whom they want to keep safe, but if we don't temper safety with common sense and an eye to our own rights and privacy, we put ourselves in another kind of danger entirely. These scanners and pat-down techniques have already caused trauma, humiliation, and pain for many people. There wasn't this kind of uproar when they started checking our shoes, and only a little murmur when the liquid restrictions came along--those were slighty silly, but understandable security measures. It's escalating now though and a line has been crossed. How many rape and sexual assault victims need to re-experience their trauma, how many little children need to be blasted with a higher-than-recommended dose of radiation right to their heads, how many innocent citizens need to be harassed and treated like criminals before you and your family feel 'safe'?

Your fears are statistically irrational, but for them you sell the dignity and happiness of others. I can only think of one word for you.

 

[Mystman]

Let me tell you something buddy. If my mother, father or wife were travelling on a plane, I couldn't care less about your "constitutional rights". If there's any chance that they would be safer from a madman or terrorist, then I am all for it. Your "rights" mean nothing to me when it's me or my loved ones travelling in a pressured metal tube 10,000ft above sea level at 700km/h.

Leftist civil libertarians make me sick to my stomach.

If any of my relatives wanted to go out on the street, I couldn't care less about your "constitutional rights". If there's any chance they they would be safer from a madman or terrorist if the government executed all other inhabitants of the planet, then I am all for it. Your "rights" mean nothing to me when it's me or my loved ones walking on the street.

 

[xxthecapnxx]

So I did a little digging and it seems like this whole thing goes even deeper than I'd originally thought. Apparently this underwear bomber was a big part of justifying body scanner purchasing (which was a big ton of money), and the underwear bomber was escorted to the plane! From the sounds of this article it sounds like that escort was CIA or something. So I hate to sound like a conspiracy advocate, but the evidence is there. It certainly wouldn't be the first time the government has done something like this and with the way things are going it won't be the last, for sure. What really get me is that it seems like whatever agency is involved, isn't really trying that hard to keep things discrete. I feel like they have long since realized how little americans really care about stuff like this, and they know exactly how to exploit the system.

http://www.infowars.com/man-videotaped-underwear-bomber-on-flight-253/

 

[Dark_Lite]

So I did a little digging and it seems like this whole thing goes even deeper than I'd originally thought. Apparently this underwear bomber was a big part of justifying body scanner purchasing (which was a big ton of money), and the underwear bomber was escorted to the plane! From the sounds of this article it sounds like that escort was CIA or something. So I hate to sound like a conspiracy advocate, but the evidence is there. It certainly wouldn't be the first time the government has done something like this and with the way things are going it won't be the last, for sure. What really get me is that it seems like whatever agency is involved, isn't really trying that hard to keep things discrete. I feel like they have long since realized how little americans really care about stuff like this, and they know exactly how to exploit the system.

Man Videotaped Underwear Bomber On Flight 253

Yeah, infowars is a conspiracy site filled with all sorts of insane theories. That is simply another one of them.

 

[flicka]

Let me tell you something buddy. If my mother, father or wife were travelling on a plane, I couldn't care less about your "constitutional rights". If there's any chance that they would be safer from a madman or terrorist, then I am all for it.

They won't be safer.

I challenge you to think of everything that could possible make you and your family "safer" and tell me honestly that it would all be alright with you. Seriously. If you are a thinking man you won't be able to do that.

 

[BlackSabb]

I'm sure the founding fathers would be proud.

Whatever.

And I sure hope you don't let your mother, father, or wife ride in a car. I mean, obviously everyone would have to get off the road for them and the speed limit would have to be set at twenty-five, period. "Any chance that they would be safer", right?

What a ridiculous response, totally out of proportion to my post. Yes, if everyone has to get off the road when I or my family are travelling, that is a preposterous situation. Where did I suggest that everyone else be inconvenienced for the sake of me and my family? I didn't. Everyone one else that is legitimate is free to fly along with me and my family. And also, me and my family would also be subject to these body scanners for the sake of others too. So, it is a small inconvenience that I would be willing to undergo also for the sake of air safety. Hardly the same as everyone vacating the road when I or my family drive.

Don't be so dramatic and irrational with your responses and think before you type.

Everyone has loved ones whom they want to keep safe, but if we don't temper safety with common sense and an eye to our own rights and privacy, we put ourselves in another kind of danger entirely. These scanners and pat-down techniques have already caused trauma, humiliation, and pain for many people.

Really? Says who? You? I doubt that an airport security measure causes "trauma" and "humiliation". Again, you're being a drama queen.

There wasn't this kind of uproar when they started checking our shoes, and only a little murmur when the liquid restrictions came along--those were slighty silly, but understandable security measures. It's escalating now though and a line has been crossed. How many rape and sexual assault victims need to re-experience their trauma

Oh what bollocks! Rape and sexual assault victims "re-experiencing" their trauma through an airport security measure. Truly laughable. You certainly have a flair for the dramatic. Are you a script writer or novelist btw? You'd be great at it.

how many little children need to be blasted with a higher-than-recommended dose of radiation right to their heads, how many innocent citizens need to be harassed and treated like criminals before you and your family feel 'safe'?

So, if you're so concerned about "radiation", why don't you suggest that children don't fly at all? Because every hour in a plane at high altitude is equivalent to the radiation you receive from a chest x ray. Did you know that? I bet you didn't. So, travel from one country to another and spend 12hrs in a plane, and you've received x radiation equal to having 12 chest x rays. So much for all your concern about children and radiation.

Your fears are statistically irrational, but for them you sell the dignity and happiness of others. I can only think of one word for you.

Well, I have 2 words for you. "Drama queen". Enough said.

 

[Jade Margery]

What a ridiculous response, totally out of proportion to my post. Yes, if everyone has to get off the road when I or my family are travelling, that is a preposterous situation. Where did I suggest that everyone else be inconvenienced for the sake of me and my family? I didn't.

Actually, that is exactly what you just did. And the fact that you would be fine with it happening to your family too doesn't make it any more okay. You don't get to speak for everyone's families.

Everyone one else that is legitimate is free to fly along with me and my family. And also, me and my family would also be subject to these body scanners for the sake of others too. So, it is a small inconvenience that I would be willing to undergo also for the sake of air safety. Hardly the same as everyone vacating the road when I or my family drive.

The point was that when you put safety on a pedestal for which 'any chance' must be taken, you open yourself to ridiculous policies that sacrifice the rights and privacy of others.

Don't be so dramatic and irrational with your responses and think before you type.

Really? Says who? You? I doubt that an airport security measure causes "trauma" and "humiliation". Again, you're being a drama queen.

Don't be so dismissive and assumptive with your responses and research things before you type.

The trauma and humiliation has happened and continues to happen. I would not give a crap about this if it were not for the many, many personal accounts I have read and listened to that say as much.

Oh what bollocks! Rape and sexual assault victims "re-experiencing" their trauma through an airport security measure. Truly laughable. You certainly have a flair for the dramatic. Are you a script writer or novelist btw? You'd be great at it.

While I appreciate the compliment on my writing style, I can't take credit.

GladRags Gab » Blog Archive » TSA Groin Searches Menstruating Woman
TSA Recalled Memories for Sex-Assault Victim | NBC San Diego
Passengers Claim TSA Sexual Assault - CBS News Video
TSA Screenings Worry Sexual-Assault Survivors - Newsweek
Rape Survivor Devastated by TSA Enhanced Pat Down « PNC-Minnesota Bureau
TSA Pat-downs can Re-traumatize Rape Victims

But hey, what could possibly be traumatizing about being stripped of any power and privacy while a stranger touches your genitals after they've taken a picture of your naked body? Oh, what's that... the definition of sexual assault?

I guess if they have a badge that makes it okay.

So, if you're so concerned about "radiation", why don't you suggest that children don't fly at all? Because every hour in a plane at high altitude is equivalent to the radiation you receive from a chest x ray. Did you know that? I bet you didn't. So, travel from one country to another and spend 12hrs in a plane, and you've received x radiation equal to having 12 chest x rays. So much for all your concern about children and radiation.

Actually, I did. (You lose the bet! Sad for you.) Did you know that a certain amount of radiation concentrated on a low percentage of your body creates a disproportionately large radiation dose to that area, causing far more damage than the same or even a higher dose evenly distributed over the entire body? Did you know that the small area of the body being subjected to this radiation is the skin, particularly that on top of your head?

Radiation scientists agree TSA naked body scanners could cause breast cancer and sperm mutations
Airport Scanner Radiation Underestimated

Well, I have 2 words for you. "Drama queen". Enough said.

Better a drama queen than a coward.

 

[canukian]

i bet the radiation is much worse than what they say.

 

[kiwimac]

Actually, that is exactly what you just did. And the fact that you would be fine with it happening to your family too doesn't make it any more okay. You don't get to speak for everyone's families.

The point was that when you put safety on a pedestal for which 'any chance' must be taken, you open yourself to ridiculous policies that sacrifice the rights and privacy of others.

Don't be so dismissive and assumptive with your responses and research things before you type.

The trauma and humiliation has happened and continues to happen. I would not give a crap about this if it were not for the many, many personal accounts I have read and listened to that say as much.


While I appreciate the compliment on my writing style, I can't take credit.

GladRags Gab » Blog Archive » TSA Groin Searches Menstruating Woman
TSA Recalled Memories for Sex-Assault Victim | NBC San Diego
Passengers Claim TSA Sexual Assault - CBS News Video
TSA Screenings Worry Sexual-Assault Survivors - Newsweek
Rape Survivor Devastated by TSA Enhanced Pat Down « PNC-Minnesota Bureau
TSA Pat-downs can Re-traumatize Rape Victims

But hey, what could possibly be traumatizing about being stripped of any power and privacy while a stranger touches your genitals after they've taken a picture of your naked body? Oh, what's that... the definition of sexual assault?

I guess if they have a badge that makes it okay.

Actually, I did. (You lose the bet! Sad for you.) Did you know that a certain amount of radiation concentrated on a low percentage of your body creates a disproportionately large radiation dose to that area, causing far more damage than the same or even a higher dose evenly distributed over the entire body? Did you know that the small area of the body being subjected to this radiation is the skin, particularly that on top of your head?

Radiation scientists agree TSA naked body scanners could cause breast cancer and sperm mutations
Airport Scanner Radiation Underestimated


Better a drama queen than a coward.

Excellent post. Well said!

 

[lawtonfogle]

I personally don't care. I'm happy to walk into a box and then walk out.

It may be true that speeding is less safe but terrorism does more than kill innocent people, the emotional response it causes in the general public also matters.

Perhaps the problem is that we are uncaring about all the innocents killed in car accidents. Wasn't that why things like MADD formed (granted, it wasn't speeding that caused the accident)?

 

[xxthecapnxx]

Blacksabb, I can tell you from my experience with the pat down that it is absolutely not a stretch to believe that rape victims would have a very hard time with the ridiculous "pat down." It shouldn't even be called a pat down, it should be called a feel up, because that's what they do. They grab your inner thigh and forcibly move their hand up until they can't move their hand up any further. I'm not exaggerating at all. Based on the nature of the process and the TSA's statements, the "pat down" is designed to scare people into using the body scanners. It's not right.

 

[BlackSabb]

Blacksabb, I can tell you from my experience with the pat down that it is absolutely not a stretch to believe that rape victims would have a very hard time with the ridiculous "pat down." It shouldn't even be called a pat down, it should be called a feel up, because that's what they do. They grab your inner thigh and forcibly move their hand up until they can't move their hand up any further. I'm not exaggerating at all. Based on the nature of the process and the TSA's statements, the "pat down" is designed to scare people into using the body scanners. It's not right.

Well this is getting really confusing now! I have been attacked for advocating body scanners because others have claimed that it is disturbing to victims of sexual assault. Now, you are claiming that it's other techniques of security (the "pat down") that is traumatising to a sexual assault victim.

Could someone please clarify? I can understand of what you've described as the pat down that it could be daunting to someone who has experienced sexual abuse. But this is not the case with body scanners. Again, clarification is in order.

 

[Gracchus]

If you can't stand the pat down, then take the scan. If you can't stand the scan, then take strolls on a nude beach, in the nude, until you have gotten over your phobia. If you can't stand that, then take Amtrak, Greyhound or drive. If you are afraid of speed, then walk.

Otherwise... Well, maybe you didn't really want to go very much anyway.

 

[ulu]

I'm surprised there isn't more of a public outcry against these. From the excessive radiation, to the cheap thrills gotten at the public's expense, to the potential of the images showing up on the net. It's pathetic, and shows how much the public still believes the gov and the media.

I had to go through one a few months back-I requested a patdown instead, but only if done by a female. (I'm male) net result-had to go off to the side, have my bags thoroughly checked out, wait a while for an undisclosed reason, and then get radiated and basically photographed nude by a (female) employee (I also asked to know the gender of the person looking at the images)

If the image was as good as a photograph, (as it likely will be in a couple years) and they admitted the radiation amount was much higher than is now being purported , would anyone here who's now in favor of these change their mind?

Next time I'm going to ask if, in the spirit of fairness, I can see the woman who's checking me out, without her clothes. I should probably leave a little early, as they likely won't appreciate the request, and their best way to show their displeasure is to hassle and waste the time of the passenger.
If everyone who thinks it's wrong did something to show their displeasure, though, maybe the employees will complain about it, and something will change. Maybe it will become a crime to speak to a TSA employee. Wouldn't surprise me.

 

[MountainCappuccino]

Don't like it, don't fly.