National Israel is cursed forever ! (2)

[anthony55]

Heb 11:



8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

The inheritance here, the Land, the city here that Abraham and His seed, Isaac and Jacob looked for, was not a literal land [ see vs 15] in the middle east as the deceived ones believe, but it is that city, the New Jerusalem :

rev 21:



9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

11Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

12And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

13On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

14And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Comprised of all His Spiritual Seed Gal 3:


29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Church, the total community, commonwelth of the redeemed by the blood of Christ, His wife, His Bride, of which without us [NT Believers] they [OT Believers] would not be made complete Heb 11:


39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

That is the church, the community and fellowship of all the blood washed Family of God through the blood of the Lamb, is the Land of Promise. Its builder and maker is God through the Son of God, who declared " That upon this rock [Himself] He shall build His Church, His City, His New Jerusalem, His Promise Land.

Yes, The Church in Glory is The Land, The City Abraham was to receive as An Inheritance in Gen 12 :4 / Heb 11:8; Also gen 17:8 is of the same promise. Yes the Church is the everlasting possession, the Land of Canaan !

Its that redeemed community by the blood of Christ, the purchase of the blood of God acts 20:28.

Amen this is when God fulfilled the ancient promise to the Israel of God , that He will give it pastors or Shepherds to feed them Jer 3:


15And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. [BTW This proves that Israel and Church are the Same]

16And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more.

Notice vs 16 increased in the land, that is the Church, the Church is the Land, and the Lord added as many as should be saved.

So the Land Promise to Abraham was Spiritual and it consisted in being in the fellowship community of all the redeemed through His seed Christ.

 

[Biblewriter]

...The inheritance here, the Land, the city here that Abraham and His seed, Isaac and Jacob looked for, was not a literal land [ see vs 15] in the middle east as the deceived ones believe, but it is that city, the New Jerusalem :...
That is the church, the community and fellowship of all the blood washed Family of God through the blood of the Lamb, is the Land of Promise. Its builder and maker is God through the Son of God, who declared " That upon this rock [Himself] He shall build His Church, His City, His New Jerusalem, His Promise Land...

Amen this is when God fulfilled the ancient promise to the Israel of God , that He will give it pastors or Shepherds to feed them Jer 3:...
So the Land Promise to Abraham was Spiritual and it consisted in being in the fellowship community of all the redeemed through His seed Christ.

All this is nothing but interpretation. The scriptures you quoted do not say what you claim they mean. All interpretation is subject to human error. The explicit words of scripture are not subject to human error. and the explicit words of scripture are that "the mountains," "the hills," "the rivers," and "the valleys" of "the land of Israel" will again be inhabited by "all the house of Israel, even all of it." The explicit words of scripture also precisely define the borders of that future land of Israel. But you have stubbornly refused to bow to these explicitly stated scriptures.

Your opinion as to the meaning of scripture is fallible. the explicit words of scripture are infallible.

 

[anthony55]

All this is nothing but interpretation. The scriptures you quoted do not say what you claim they mean. All interpretation is subject to human error. The explicit words of scripture are not subject to human error. and the explicit words of scripture are that "the mountains," "the hills," "the rivers," and "the valleys" of "the land of Israel" will again be inhabited by "all the house of Israel, even all of it." The explicit words of scripture also precisely define the borders of that future land of Israel. But you have stubbornly refused to bow to these explicitly stated scriptures.

Your opinion as to the meaning of scripture is fallible. the explicit words of scripture are infallible.

I can only show you the Truth, cannot make you believe it.

Heb 11:


9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

 

[Biblewriter]

I can only show you the Truth, cannot make you believe it.

Heb 11:


9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

You claim to be showing us the truth, but in the 1,025 posts in this thread, you have not posted even one scripture that says what you claim the scriptures teach. You have only been able to post scriptures that you interpret to mean what you claim they teach.

But I and others have repeatedly posted scriptures, from both the Old and New Testaments, that very explicitly say the very opposite of what you claim these scriptures mean. Therefore your conclusions about what these scriptures mean have been conclusively proven to be incorrect. The scriptures condemn your interpretations, and there is no more that can be said. It is time to fold your tent and go home.

 

[anthony55]

The Land Promise to Abraham and His seed, was not a piece of dirt over in the middle east, but it was this:

Heb 11:


9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.


15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 

[anthony55]

Rev 7:

3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

The Servants of God in this scripture are the Children of God, and hence they must believe in Christ. They are the same Servants that Jesus told John that He must show whats about to come to pass rev 1:1

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

So they belong to Christ, and by virtue if that, they must be believers in Christ Gal 3:


26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Now if they are believers in Christ, there is no National Distinctions Gal 3:


28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

So the servants in rev 7:3 who were to be sealed, were all one in Christ.

This would mean that the mention of the 12 tribes here are not literal, but Spiritual, and not according to Abraham's seed according to the Flesh, because if they are, then they are not the children of God, and consequently not the servants of God. Rom 9:


8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

I know this is a shock to many, but it is true, the Twelve Tribes recited in rev 7:4ff do not refer to Abraham's seed according to the Flesh, its impossible if they are Servants of God.

 

[anthony55]

rev 7:

3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

The word sealed is the greek word

sphragizō and denotes:

to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal
a) for security: from Satan

ownership and security, together with destination

What we have here is Gods elect being sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise until the day of redemption in the world, and especially in the great tribulation period when God will let Satan loose to deceive the nations once again.

Eph 1:

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

eph 4:

30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Notice they are sealed in their foreheads, denoting their minds, they are given a understanding to know Him that is True .

They will be those, that if possible, they would deceive the very elect, but its not possible, for they have been sealed in their foreheads by the Holy Spirit of Promise.

They are given a Spiritual Mind as Promised in the New Covenant per Heb 8:

10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

And the Law we know says Paul is Spiritual rom 7:14

For we know that the law is spiritual:

Gods Gospel is Spiritual too.

Its funny how the natural mind believes it can obey the gospel without a spiritual mind., They may as well say they can obey the Law with their natural mind..

 

[Son of Israel]

Heb 11:



8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

The inheritance here, the Land, the city here that Abraham and His seed, Isaac and Jacob looked for, was not a literal land [ see vs 15] in the middle east as the deceived ones believe, but it is that city, the New Jerusalem :

rev 21:



9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

11Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

12And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

13On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

14And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Comprised of all His Spiritual Seed Gal 3:


29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Church, the total community, commonwelth of the redeemed by the blood of Christ, His wife, His Bride, of which without us [NT Believers] they [OT Believers] would not be made complete Heb 11:


39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

That is the church, the community and fellowship of all the blood washed Family of God through the blood of the Lamb, is the Land of Promise. Its builder and maker is God through the Son of God, who declared " That upon this rock [Himself] He shall build His Church, His City, His New Jerusalem, His Promise Land.

Yes, The Church in Glory is The Land, The City Abraham was to receive as An Inheritance in Gen 12 :4 / Heb 11:8; Also gen 17:8 is of the same promise. Yes the Church is the everlasting possession, the Land of Canaan !

Its that redeemed community by the blood of Christ, the purchase of the blood of God acts 20:28.

Amen this is when God fulfilled the ancient promise to the Israel of God , that He will give it pastors or Shepherds to feed them Jer 3:


15And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. [BTW This proves that Israel and Church are the Same]

16And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more.

Notice vs 16 increased in the land, that is the Church, the Church is the Land, and the Lord added as many as should be saved.

So the Land Promise to Abraham was Spiritual and it consisted in being in the fellowship community of all the redeemed through His seed Christ.

Amen

 

[Son of Israel]

All this is nothing but interpretation. The scriptures you quoted do not say what you claim they mean. All interpretation is subject to human error. The explicit words of scripture are not subject to human error. and the explicit words of scripture are that "the mountains," "the hills," "the rivers," and "the valleys" of "the land of Israel" will again be inhabited by "all the house of Israel, even all of it." The explicit words of scripture also precisely define the borders of that future land of Israel. But you have stubbornly refused to bow to these explicitly stated scriptures.

Your opinion as to the meaning of scripture is fallible. the explicit words of scripture are infallible.

Anthony has been simply providing the scriptures. They are true. They mean what they mean. Anthony has been handling scripture excellently. Scripture is infallible, and your "opinion" contrarywise means nothing. You have no idea what mountains and valley and hills and rivers mean if you think they are "physical". Remember, first that which is natural then that which is spiritual. A spiritual person led by Christ will know truth. And that imposter "Israel" over in the east is NOTHING but cursed. They receive NO land. Pray about it You'll see in time

 

[Son of Israel]

Excellent presentation Anthony. You have wisdom. I'm sure you've witnessed these scriptures already. So I'll just chime in my witness of His Word to me which redeemed me out of "natural" cursed Israel;

Dear Biblewriter and other dispensationalists,

You’ve swallowed a dose of bad dispensational medicine from whoever taught you.
I can appreciate your opinions, but Christians won't believe any man’s opinion, nothing personal. But you are incorrect. Please read;

(Rom 3:4) God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Scripture is clear on what the land promise is what Abraham hoped for. This is a Blessing for you. Really it isn’t something you should argue against. Put some time and energy into knowing the scriptures on this, for true Christian/Israelites stand or fall in these scriptures.

(Rom 4:13) For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

(Rom 4:14) For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

This should be quite clear.

Per the scriptures, we can know without a doubt that the “land” that Abraham was promised as an “EVERLASTING INHERITANCE” was definetly NOT a physical land. God is faithful in giving us all we need to discern this. If it was the physical land as an everlasting inheritance, then those natural Israelites in the land would never have been scattered out of it. Is this not obvious? Remember anyway, first that which is natural, then that which is spiritual. The reason there is a “nation” calling themselves “Israel” now, is simply for the final vengeance and destruction upon that antichrist harlot as He’s promised from the beginning. The time of her burning is soon.
The only thing in store for that physical land and the Jerusalem “beneath” that is in bondage with her children is burning destruction. That is promised. Here is why.

(Deu 32:22) For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

(Jer 44:21) The incense that ye burned in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, ye, and your fathers, your kings, and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the LORD remember them, and came it not into his mind?

(Jer 44:22) So that the LORD could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, and because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at this day.

(Isa 47:8) Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children:

(Rev 17:16) And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

(Rev 18:7) How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

(Rev 18:8) Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

(Rev 18:9) And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

etc etc. The harlot wife of God widowed herself when she crucified her husband. The rightful end of that harlot he illustrates, is to be burnt with fire, just as He did in AD 70.

(Gen 38:24) And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.

(Lev 21:9) And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the harlot, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

We know there is NO inheritance to natural Jews. Land included. If so, why am I not told by God to go over and claim my plot of acreage? Lol.

There is no inheritance to “natural Israelites” outside of Christ whatsoever;

(Gal 4:25) For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

(Gal 4:29) But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

(Gal 4:30) Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

(continued)

 

[Son of Israel]

(continued)

Quite plain what Paul is saying, no?

Geneology means nothing. (Tit 3:9)

None of what God promised is given to “natural” Israel. What they had temporarily, was removed from them. It was taken away from them and given to that “Nation” in Christ;

(Mat 21:43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

(Luk 19:26) For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

Only the true Israel, which are Christians, receive the "Land" Promise.

The “Land” promise is fulfilled only to the Seed of Abraham. WHO is the Seed of Abraham?

(Gal 3:16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

CHRIST IS THE ONLY SEED OF ABRAHAM.

Here we see flat out that the Promise God made to Abraham, was only to be fulfilled in those who are of Christ. “Christians”.

Only in Christ do we receive the Promises of Abraham, which is, “the Land”.

Other elements of the “Land” promise we receive as Christians are specifically spoken of also as earth, house, temple, tabernacle, foundation, building, body, sanctuary, stones, Rock, cornerstone etc

(Mat 5:5) Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. (land)

(1Co 3:9) For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

(1Co 3:10) According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

(1Co 3:11) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

(1Co 3:16) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

(1Co 3:17) If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

(1Pe 2:5) Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

(1Pe 2:6) Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

(1Pe 2:7) Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands

(Heb 8:2) A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.


(Eph 2:20) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
(Eph 2:21) In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
(Eph 2:22) In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

(Joh 2:19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

(Joh 2:20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

(Joh 2:21) But he spake of the temple of his body.

(Eph 5:30) For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

As we saw earlier in Hebrews 11, the land which Abraham was promised and hoped in was a “Heavenly Country” (Heb 11:16)

(Heb 11:8) By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country...

(Heb 11:10) For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

(Heb 11:14) For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

(Heb 11:16) But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

It can't possibly be any clearer than that!

This is that country;

(Eph 1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

(Rom 4:13) For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

(Rom 4:14) For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

(Gal 3:14) That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Again, the ONLY seed of Abraham who receive the promises, are those in Christ;

(Gal 3:27) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

(Gal 3:28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

(Gal 3:29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We are the “earth”. God’s treasure of His Promises to Abraham are fulfilled in us “earthen containers”;

(2Co 4:7) But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The Promises that God made to Israel are fulfilled in the “Nations” come into Christ according to;

(Rom 9:24) Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

(Rom 9:25) As he saith also in Hosea, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

(Rom 9:26) And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

(Rom 9:27) Isaiah also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

We who have come out of the “nations” (gentiles) are that “remnant” which fulfills the prophecies made to Israel in Hosea and Isaiah, just to name a couple.

I put this together for you, in prayer that as I, you too could come into the wisdom of God on the Land promise to Abraham as fulfilled only to the Seed of Abraham, which is Christ, of which we are His Body.

This Kingdom of God is within us, Unlike how the Jews and their child of hell proselytes throught (even to this day),who thought that the Kingdom was going to be established "physically" on the earth, Jesus lets us know what it really is;

(Luk 17:20) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

(Luk 17:21) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Blessings in our Messiah!

 

[Biblewriter]

Anthony has been simply providing the scriptures. They are true. They mean what they mean. Anthony has been handling scripture excellently. Scripture is infallible, and your "opinion" contrarywise means nothing. You have no idea what mountains and valley and hills and rivers mean if you think they are "physical". Remember, first that which is natural then that which is spiritual. A spiritual person led by Christ will know truth. And that imposter "Israel" over in the east is NOTHING but cursed. They receive NO land. Pray about it You'll see in time

Are you pretending that even the precise definitions of the future borders of the land mean nothing? You claim that the scriptures teach this. But not even one scripture you have quoted says it. You are only giving interpretations of scripture, not scriptures that say what you claim they say. And your interpretations are flatly contrary to many explicitly stated scriptures.

And no, this is not what "someone" taught me. It is what I have learned form the Holy Scriptures. If what yu are saying were true, two-thirds of the prophecies in the Old Testament will never be fulfilled. This makes God a liar, and is serious bad doctrine. Nothing you can say will even convince me otherwise, for I know that the scriptures very explicitly say that all the house of Israel, even all of it, will once again inhabit that land of Israel. If you bother to read over this thread, you will see that I and several others have repeatedly posted many scriptures that very explicitly say that Israel will again be blessed in their own ancestral homeland.

 

[Son of Israel]

Are you pretending that even the precise definitions of the future borders of the land mean nothing? You claim that the scriptures teach this. But not even one scripture you have quoted says it. You are only giving interpretations of scripture, not scriptures that say what you claim they say. And your interpretations are flatly contrary to many explicitly stated scriptures.

And no, this is not what "someone" taught me. It is what I have learned form the Holy Scriptures. If what yu are saying were true, two-thirds of the prophecies in the Old Testament will never be fulfilled. This makes God a liar, and is serious bad doctrine. Nothing you can say will even convince me otherwise, for I know that the scriptures very explicitly say that all the house of Israel, even all of it, will once again inhabit that land of Israel. If you bother to read over this thread, you will see that I and several others have repeatedly posted many scriptures that very explicitly say that Israel will again be blessed in their own ancestral homeland.

So as a Jew, you are saying I should go claim a plot of acreage over their amongst a bunch of antichrist people? Plant olives or something? beat a sword into a plowshare? Worship the dirt for a few years then die? Is that what you think is the Land Promise that Abraham died in the hope of?

Read those scriptures posted and pray about it.

This is True Israel's Land that Christs Seed live in... you are invited;

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant

We wouldn't trade this True Land for all the dirt on the mediterranean. That would be silly. Do you really hear yourself? Please read the scriptures!

 

[Markea]

I think that the root of the problem is people being led to believe that the church of God is Spiritual Israel... although that's not taught anywhere in the scriptures. Not all Israel being Israel simply means that not all Israelites are of the Israel of God.

It's no different in the church of God, not all who profess Christ possess Christ in their earthen vessels.

Israel is an EARTHLY entity with earthly ordinances... the church of God is a HEAVENLY entity with its members being citizens of heaven..

If I have told you earthly things and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you heavenly things..?

 

[Son of Israel]

I think that the root of the problem is people being led to believe that the church of God is Spiritual Israel... although that's not taught anywhere in the scriptures. Not all Israel being Israel simply means that not all Israelites are of the Israel of God.

It's no different in the church of God, not all who profess Christ possess Christ in their earthen vessels.

Israel is an EARTHLY entity with earthly ordinances... the church of God is a HEAVENLY entity with its members being citizens of heaven..

If I have told you earthly things and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you heavenly things..?

The entire new testament is the message that Christ is Israel's Messiah, fulfilling all the prophecies to His Wife, Israel, in the New Marriage Covenant. Anyone else is NOT Israel. Only Christians are Israel. Any other teaching is of antichrist. Read the references provided please!

 

[Markea]

Christians are Israel.

Then why are we called Christians... shouldn't we be called Israelites... Israelites are called Israelites... Christians are called Christians... that's why the name is different... lol

But if you insist... what tribe are you from...?

 

[Son of Israel]

Then why are we called Christians... shouldn't we be called Israelites... Israelites are called Israelites... Christians are called Christians... that's why the name is different... lol

But if you insist... what tribe are you from...?

Because we are called Christians we aren't Israelites? LOL. My dear friend, you do err not knowing scriptures. We ARE called Israel! We are also called various parts of Israel; the City, Country, Sion, Heavenly Jerusalem, Chosen, Elect, 144000, Great Nation, God's Wife, Temple, House, Children of the Promise, Royal Priesthood etc etc. ALL terms repeated to us in the N.T. that was originally spoken of in "type" to the O.T. Israel. Haven't you read all the scriptures provided that leave no doubt? The New Testament speaks of nothing else! Please please read them! Get your concordance out

Who is Jesus sent to? Is He sent to ANYone except Israel?

(Mat 15:24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Here is someone who TRIED to sneak in without wearing Her (Israel's) wedding garment;

(Mat 22:8)Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
(Mat 22:11)And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
(Mat 22:12)And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
(Mat 22:13)Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and casthiminto outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(Mat 22:14)For many are called, but fewarechosen.

Since the Pharisees knew He was speaking of them, this is how they responded;

(Mat 22:15) Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.

That's what happens to those who aren't Israel in Christ. Outer darkness.

This is the "tribe" I am from;

(Rev 5:5) And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Christ is Israel's Husband in the Old Covenant;

(Jer 31:31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
(Jer 31:32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

With the promise of being Her Husband remarried in the New Marriage Covenant, (The New Testament of course);

(Jer 31:33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

which is fulfilled! Thats why we read such scriptures as this;

(Eph 5:23) For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

(Eph 5:32) This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

fulfilling;

(Isa 62:5) For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

Which bridegroom is Jesus as also John the baptist witnessed;

(Joh 3:29) He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

Christ was the Husband in the Old Testament Marriage to Israel. Then after death and resurrection, He is Married to Israel in the New Covenant we read in the New Testament. He is the HUSBAND to Israel with Her Jerusalem Capital coming down out of Heaven;

(Rev 21:9) And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
(Rev 21:10) And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Who is fertile, conceiving in Her Marriage to Jesus, bringing forth children;

Jesus' children;

(Heb 2:13) And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

It is what the "Father" does;

(Joh 14:8) Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
(Joh 14:9) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thouthen,Shew us the Father?

(continued)

 

[Son of Israel]

Then why are we called Christians... shouldn't we be called Israelites... Israelites are called Israelites... Christians are called Christians... that's why the name is different... lol

But if you insist... what tribe are you from...?

...(continued)

Jesus' Children we saw, and here we see His Wife's children; (for she is not barren as she was under that Old Covenant)

(Gal 4:26) But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

(Gal 4:28) Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

The Lamb and His Wife have Children of which WE are those Children, which is ONLY ISRAEL. It fulfills all the prophecies such as in Hosea;

(Hos 2:14) Therefore, behold, I will allure her (Israel), and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.

(Hos 2:16) And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi (Husband); and shalt call me no more Baali ("lord").

He told us He would marry Israel in a New Marriage Covenant;

(Hos 2:18) And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.

Remember Peter's vision?

(Act 10:11) And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
(Act 10:12) Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
(Act 10:13) And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
(Act 10:14) But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
(Act 10:15) And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

"what did it mean" Peter asked himself... Then God revealed the Hosea connection to Peter and he perceived;

(Act 10:34) Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
(Act 10:35) But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
(Act 10:36)The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all)

Pretty clear that the Gospel Peter was to take to the Gentiles is the New Covenant marriage God promised to Israel in Hosea.

As He said:

(Hos 2:19) And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
(Hos 2:20) I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.

Oh, not to ignore your question, here is the tribe I belong to;

(Rev 5:5) And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

WE, IN CHRIST, are LIONS! This is WHO we are in bringing the gospel of Christ to the world as prophecied;

Have you ever wondered why 12 lions? Because this is the True Israel of God;

(1Ki 10:20) And twelve lions stood there on the one side and on the other upon the six steps: there was not the like made in any kingdom.

(Isa 5:29) Their roaring shall be like a lion, they shall roar like young lions: yea, they shall roar, and lay hold of the prey, and shall carry it away safe, and none shall deliver it.

We have "put on" as a garment this Christ;

(Gal 3:27) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

(Eph 5:30) For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
And on and on. The Spirit is needed to "SEE" these things;

(2Co 3:14) But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

EVERYthing having to do with the Gospel of Salvation, comes from Jesus who IS ISRAEL...

(Mat 2:15) And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

(Exo 4:22) And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
I could provide more, but you get God's drift now I'm sure

Blessings!

 

[Biblewriter]

So as a Jew, you are saying I should go claim a plot of acreage over their amongst a bunch of antichrist people? Plant olives or something? beat a sword into a plowshare? Worship the dirt for a few years then die? Is that what you think is the Land Promise that Abraham died in the hope of?

Most absolutely not. Jews of today who have accepted Jesus as their true Messiah are part of the church, the body of Christ, and find their blessing in heaven.

You have jumped into this discussion 'way down the line, as it were. What we are saying, because the Holy scriptures very distinctly spell it out in extreme detail, is that in a future day, after this age is over, God will again take up Israel as a nation. He will first subject them to a period of extreme suffering. This suffering is not punishment, but discipline intended to bring them to repentance. The events of this period are spelled out in astounding detail, even to the specification of the daily progress of invading armies.

When the suffering has produced its intended effect, which will take seven years, Messiah will come in an awesome display of power and glory. He will first destroy the invading armies, and then bring all Israel home. But when they come home, he explicitly says He will meet them at the border and purge out from among them all the rebels. The scriptures than very explicitly say that after that time all the rest of the nation will repent and come to a true faith in their true Messiah, none other that the Jesus we already know.

The scriptures that spell all this out have been repeatedly posted in this thread, and I am not going to go through them again.

Read those scriptures posted and pray about it.

I have read all the scriptures you posted, and not even one of them says that the church is Israel. They only say things you interpret to mean that.

This is True Israel's Land that Christs Seed live in... you are invited;

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant

We wouldn't trade this True Land for all the dirt on the mediterranean. That would be silly. Do you really hear yourself? Please read the scriptures!

Please read the whole Bible, not just the parts you think justify your claims.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*
Please read the whole Bible, not just the parts you think justify your claims.