dogs are always dogs, and cats are always cats?

[matthewgar]

Two interesting videos, looking at the evolution of cat and dog evolution from the last common ancestor of both.

YouTube - Caniform Carnivore Cladogram Construction

YouTube - Foundations of Feliforme Families

we hear the argument all the time dogs are always just dogs, and cats are always just cats, but these videos do bring up questions. Plus I be curious about not just lions, panthers and such but how many species of cats can be shown to exist right before and after the supposed global flood and see what doesn't add up.

 

[tanzanos]

Blind dog LOL

 

[matthewgar]

Blind dog LOL

heh always get a hoot out of that clip, but you know we found the crocoduck, you should put it as your picture now :> Heh

 

[tanzanos]

heh always get a hoot out of that clip, but you know we found the crocoduck, you should put it as your picture now :> Heh

If you think Crocoduck is strange then you better look at this Bat eared shenzi dog from Tanzania

 

[Mike Elphick]

Is it just me, or do others find these videos contain vastly too much information to digest? This is not a complaint, as one can certainly get the gist of what's being discussed, but I'd much rather study this by reading and studying written text.

This is a very interesting subject, so here is the source material used for the two videos:-

YouTube - Caniform Carnivore Cladogram Construction

Part III of the 'Falsifying Phylogeny' series; This one explains how one must first address the indications of evolutionary phylogeny rather than ignoring all aspects of common ancestry altogether, (as Ray Comfort did) and instead proposing some weird straw-man parody of evolution in which no ancestry of any kind is even involved. Source studies:-

Multiple and Ancient Origins of the Domestic Dog (free registration required)

The source of the Canine cladogram

Mitogenomic analyses of caniform relationships (abstract only)

Molecular Phylogeny of the Carnivora (Mammalia): Assessing the Impact of Increased Sampling on Resolving Enigmatic Relationships

Links taken from here.

YouTube - Foundations of Feliforme Families

Part IV of the 'Falsifying Phylogeny' series shows how the basal progenitors of now dramatically different "kinds" are still apparently inseparable from sister species and parent clades.

Felid cladogram from Scientific American (abstract only)

Cladogram

Massive collaborative analysis of the Molecular Phylogeny of Carnivora

An explanation of transitional forms and taxonomic trends

Links taken from here.

If there's anyone who has access to the full versions of the papers marked "abstract only", I would greatly appreciate receiving them via PM. Thanks.

 

[matthewgar]

heh so no comments from the creationist crowd? Funny how when I bring good evidence they pretend like I'm not here heh.

 

[Shemjaza]

It's a pity AronRa doesn't post here anymore. I used to enjoy his input.

 

[matthewgar]

So all you creationists are willing to sit there and whine about evolution's false, you don't see dogs becoming cats, or vise versa. But when someone posts evidence showing how cats and dogs evolved from a common ancestory plus showing why alot of the parts of the bible couldn't be true you ignore it?

On a side note, anyone else find it cool that cheetahs came from north america? :> Would explain the bottleneck at some point they had.

 

[pgp_protector]

It's a pity AronRa doesn't post here anymore. I used to enjoy his input.

But they do still visit the site.
Aron-Ra Last Activity: 4th November 2010 05:25 PM

 

[matthewgar]

But they do still visit the site.
Aron-Ra Last Activity: 4th November 2010 05:25 PM

heh maybe they are hoping the site has improved...considering the selective noticing of stuff that the creationists here do I doubt it..

 

[Naraoia]

On a side note, anyone else find it cool that cheetahs came from north america? :> Would explain the bottleneck at some point they had.

I'm European I'm also pretty sure the genetic bottleneck that affects extant cheetahs is far more recent than that.

Re: the videos, I'm a bit disappointed that AronRa keeps messing up his terminology. He consistently calls subfamilies genera (big clue: anything ending in -inae must be a subfamily as per the ICZN 29.2), nimravids nimvarids, and I have absolutely no idea what he means by what sounds like "chemical fertility" (did he really say that??).

Oh yes, and karyotype =/= prototype, archetype or whatever he really means by it. A karyotype is the number and type of chromosomes in a cell, and I'm not aware of any other meaning that even remotely fits his usage.

A pity, because I quite like his videos otherwise.