The debacle that is the obama presidency...

[EdwinWillers]

You are clearly an elitist. I travel quite a bit and I will tell you that you don't find much elitisism in big cities or universities; I've never seen anything but respect for hard working, average Americans from those places. The current breed of elitism is found in rural America; I see lots of contempt for city dwellers and intectuals when I visit rural areas.

Darn elitist redneck, double-wide dwelling, toothless, ignorant hicks anyway...

Good grief - you don't find much elitism in big cities or universities??? What planet did you say you were from again? Those places are defined by their elitist attitudes - particularly for rural America; and if you don't see it, maybe look in the mirror to understand who the real elitist here is.

The "hardworking, average American" about which you and your urban, overly educated elite speak are UNIONS - and they hardly represent anything that is hardworking, let average in America.

Um... just for example:
Unions Really Have Gone to Pot.

“It’s workers like you that built this country into the greatest economic power the world has ever known.”
“I want all of you to know, I will bet on the American worker any day of the week.” he told the crowd.
“I wish they could see what I’m seeing in this plant and talk to the workers who are here, taking pride in building a world-class vehicle,” Obama said, referring to opponents of the multibillion-dollar government auto bailout. “I don’t think they’d be willing to look you in the eye and say that you were a bad investment.” -- Barack mmmm, mmmm, mmm Obama
​

 

[Celticflower]

Um, Snoopy is a 'he' ...and if you cast your lot with Obama, you did vote for Snoopy:

Obama Administration to Censure Internet

I know Snoopy is a he - the "she" in my post was Palin. Snoopy is always my write in choice when I don't like anyone.

 

[EdwinWillers]

I know Snoopy is a he - the "she" in my post was Palin. Snoopy is always my write in choice when I don't like anyone.

I know who you were referring to. I merely reversed his gender back to refer to BO

 

[kermit]

Whaaaaa?

So you don't think the full cost of a product should be paid by the consumer? What other costs of other products should be paid by taxpayers?

 

[kermit]

Darn elitist redneck, double-wide dwelling, toothless, ignorant hicks anyway...

I did not use any perjoratives.

Good grief - you don't find much elitism in big cities or universities??? What planet did you say you were from again? Those places are defined by their elitist attitudes - particularly for rural America; and if you don't see it, maybe look in the mirror to understand who the real elitist here is.

That's the convensional wisdom, but when you actually visit those places you see little if any elitism. IMO, the current breed or rural elitism that I see frequently when I visit rural area is a response to the convensional wisdom.

Most people whom I know that speak about the urban elites have never had more than a casual visit to a city of more than 100K. They have never worked directly with anyone there. I have worked with all socioeconomic strata of people ranging from CEOs to factory line workers. I will tell you without any doubt that I have never see elistism from the urban/university crowd, but it's rampant in the rural crowd. The guy whom I've been travelling with recently is a conservative Republican and even he noticed it.

 

[EdwinWillers]

I did not use any perjoratives.

I know you didn't, but those are the typicals - and they don't exist because rural people are saying such things about one another or describing one another thus.

That's the convensional wisdom, but when you actually visit those places you see little if any elitism. IMO, the current breed or rural elitism that I see frequently when I visit rural area is a response to the convensional wisdom.

Well, that's not my experience at all and I've been around a little myself. Frankly, the very notion itself of "rural elitism" smacks of a general lack of understanding who rural America is or what they value.

Most people whom I know that speak about the urban elites have never had more than a casual visit to a city of more than 100K. They have never worked directly with anyone there. I have worked with all socioeconomic strata of people ranging from CEOs to factory line workers. I will tell you without any doubt that I have never see elistism from the urban/university crowd, but it's rampant in the rural crowd. The guy whom I've been travelling with recently is a conservative Republican and even he noticed it.

To claim you've never seen elitism from the urban/university crowd completely discredits your experiences in toto on this matter. To further claim that most people who speak about urban elites have never had more than a casual visit to the big city is equally incredible. Such claims are downright fantastic on their face.

I know you probably don't see that - but that just makes them all the more incredible.

Oh well...

 

[kermit]

I know you didn't, but those are the typicals - and they don't exist because rural people are saying such things about one another or describing one another thus.

Every group has perjoratives that are assigned to them.

Well, that's not my experience at all and I've been around a little myself. Frankly, the very notion itself of "rural elitism" smacks of a general lack of understanding who rural America is or what they value.

I have done quite a bit of travelling and lately it's been to rural areas. Many conversations I've had have definately had an air of "I'm better than you, you stupid Yankee". A case in point is an episode of Dirty Jobs. Mike, a San Francisco resident, was visiting a charcoal manufacturer in a small southern town. Mike was polite and respectful. The owner and many of his employees were condesending and insulting to Mike. Convensional wisdom would make Mike the elisting, but in reality it was the other way around.

To claim you've never seen elitism from the urban/university crowd completely discredits your experiences in toto on this matter. To further claim that most people who speak about urban elites have never had more than a casual visit to the big city is equally incredible. Such claims are downright fantastic on their face.

Most people who visit and area are just making a casual visit. I was vacationing in the DR a few years ago, but I can't speak to what residents experience or think. Few visit areas and work with people and get to know them a bit.

 

[Belk]

Wait, you are not insinuating that the "Real Americans" can be just as exclusionary and pig headed as the ivory tower elitists? Because I have seen it in both places and it looks pretty much identical. Guess we are all human after all.

 

[MattLangley]

There is no debacle, at least objectively. Many things have happened and been done, some like it some don't. I personally like the mass majority of what has been done and personally believe it averted further damaged that most likely would have happened.

Keep in mind the economic crisis that started the downward spiral happened before Obama inherited it. In fact many of the things that Bush started (like the bailouts) are now blamed upon Obama. He inherited one of the worst situations this country has ever been in for a very long time and there was no way to make such a horrible situation turn into an amazingly good one. Everyone being objective knew that no matter who made it into office things were going to be worse, the question was only how much worse would it get and how long would the downward spiral that was started continue.

No one could have realistically expected this to not continue to spiral, the consequences of the economic crisis that happened were dire and long term and people are naive to blame Obama for that. Sure not everyone agrees on whether they like what he has done or hasn't done, but people on both sides should realize that the situation itself was not in any way his fault and they should recognize that many people on either side of the situation have differing opinions and their own isn't the only one.

 

[KIYX]

You, uh, missed my point.

The point I was making was that the corporations would never have allowed Barack Obama anywhere near the White House if he wasn't loyal to them. I wasn't saying that Obama was standing up to them--to the contrary, he's just as much a corporate quisling as Bush II, Clinton, Bush I and Reagan. Obama just put on airs to the contrary.

If Obama did turn against the corporate elite, I'd give him two, maybe three months tops before he ended up next to Jimmy Hoffa.

You sir are correct I did miss your point and I apologize for that!

 

[KIYX]

You're right. Let's just make the Government small enough to be inept to stop corporate interests even when they run contrary to public interests. That way corporations won't need to buy out the government; it's small enough to pose no problem any-way.

Your definition of smaller government is much more different than everyone elses.

I like mine better.

 

[KIYX]

Wrong
$21,015,000,000,000 2001-2008

vs.

$7,239,000,000,00 2009-2010

And if cost of government goes down as predicted over the next several years, President Obama will end up spending much less in his two terms than Bush did.

I wish you partiers would start using facts. You would all change sides if you would actually look at the facts instead of following the party line blindly......

I like how you talk about facts and then have ZERO sources.

I like how you talk about facts and call me a tea partier. You'd have to work very very hard to be more wrong.

Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war | Washington Examiner

Here's some facts for you.

Expect to hear a lot about how much the Iraq war cost in the days ahead from Democrats worried about voter wrath against their unprecedented spending excesses.
The meme is simple: The economy is in a shambles because of Bush's economic policies and his war in Iraq. As American Thinker's Randall Hoven points out, that's the message being peddled by lefties as diverse as former Clinton political strategist James Carville, economist Joseph Stiglitz, and The Nation's Washington editor, Christopher Hayes.
The key point in the mantra is an alleged $3 trillion cost for the war. Well, it was expensive to be sure, in both blood and treasure, but, as Hoven notes, the CBO puts the total cost at $709 billion. To put that figure in the proper context of overall spending since the war began in 2003, Hoven provides this handy CBO chart showing the portion of the annual deficit attributable to the conflict:

But there is much more to be said of this data and Hoven does an admirable job of summarizing the highlights of such an analysis:
* Obama's stimulus, passed in his first month in office, will cost more than the entire Iraq War -- more than $100 billion (15%) more.
* Just the first two years of Obama's stimulus cost more than the entire cost of the Iraq War under President Bush, or six years of that war.
* Iraq War spending accounted for just 3.2% of all federal spending while it lasted.
* Iraq War spending was not even one quarter of what we spent on Medicare in the same time frame.
* Iraq War spending was not even 15% of the total deficit spending in that time frame. The cumulative deficit, 2003-2010, would have been four-point-something trillion dollars with or without the Iraq War.
* The Iraq War accounts for less than 8% of the federal debt held by the public at the end of 2010 ($9.031 trillion).
* During Bush's Iraq years, 2003-2008, the federal government spent more on education that it did on the Iraq War. (State and local governments spent about ten times more.)

No doubt in your next response you'll tell us all how the numbers are wrong because those pesky CBO boys are all partiers.

 

[sinner/SAVED]

Here's some facts for you:



YOu do the math..,,

This is from a tea party web site......

 

[EdwinWillers]

Oh goody, math problems

Here's one:

Assets - Liabilities = Owner's Equity

Taxes + Spending = Bankruptcy

 

[KIYX]

Here's some facts for you:



YOu do the math..,,

This is from a tea party web site......

And the goalposts have been moved!

We were talking about obama's spending vs the last 8 years of war spending.

 

[Nathan45]

Taxes + Spending = Bankruptcy

I don't think your math actually works because taxes have been much higher in the past than anyone is proposing now... I mean, the top bracket income tax rate under Eisenhower was over 90%. (google it..) Was Eisenhower a socialist? Maybe. Is that tax rate too high even for my tastes? Yes. But are we bankrupt? No.

 

[sinner/SAVED]

And the goalposts have been moved!

We were talking about obama's spending vs the last 8 years of war spending.

No you placed the goal there, and it has not moved one inch.

And obama is the guy who spent more in half a term than bush did in 8 years of war.

The tea party graph that I provided showed TOTAL GOVERNMENT SPENDING. That includes war and stimulus. Follow the link and do the math. The spending in the past two years would have had to triple to equal the spending of Bush's eight years.

 

[mcswan]

I'm just tired of hearing how horrible Obama is and how everything that is wrong with our country is his fault. Most of the problems were left over from the previous administration, but no one wants to remember that because Obama is an easy target. What a bunch of blooming political idiots!

YouTube - The Forgotten Man - Jon McNaughton

 

[EdwinWillers]

I don't think your math actually works because taxes have been much higher in the past than anyone is proposing now... I mean, the top bracket income tax rate under Eisenhower was over 90%. (google it..) Was Eisenhower a socialist? Maybe. Is that tax rate too high even for my tastes? Yes. But are we bankrupt? No.

There's two variables on the left side of that equation - one that didn't remotely apply to Eisenhower then like it does today.

Google "Spending."

 

[Nathan45]

There's two variables on the left side of that equation - one that didn't remotely apply to Eisenhower then like it does today.

Google "Spending."

awesome, so if government taxes everything then keeps it and doesn't spend anything, no bankruptcy? i'll have to tell that to my socialist pals in the Obama admin.