The Great Pants Debate

[Michie]

In response to a certain missive making the rounds in reference to ladies' fashion -- and, more specifically, why dresses and skirts should be the norm for Catholic women -- Simcha Fisher has one word: pants.

A few selections from her Pantifesto:

1. I live in NH, where winter happens. Pants.

4. Motherhood is a blue collar job. I don’t care what style of dress or skirt you’re wearing, there is no way to be modest while dealing efficiently with the routine emergencies that normal children engender – children who, as a normal mode of expression, flail their limbs around like some kind of oversized, malevolent eggbeater, right at your hemline. Today, I had to lunge halfway across the room to rescue my toddler, who had launched herself from an armchair at a glass gerbil tank. I was able to lunge without pausing to consider whether my movements were graceful and feminine; and I didn’t worry, while lunging, about flashing the men in the room. Pants.

9. If you are so concerned about how I think about myself, then why don’t you ask me what I actually think, instead of telling me what you know I will think if I only listen to you? Not that you asked, but I’ll tell you how I think about myself: I think that my life got a lot better when I started making reasonable decisions for myself, instead of always wondering if I’m going to disappoint some hypothetical man. I care profoundly what my husband thinks about me, and naturally that affects how I feel about myself. Pants.

You must read the entire hilarious thing.

Continued- http://www.insidecatholic.com/myblog/the-great-pants-debate.html

 

[cobweb]

Hmmm.... I do occasionally wear pants, but I can manage to wrestle a tantrumming 5'2" 110 lb autistic kid to his room while I am wearing an ankle length skirt. It isn't any more difficult in a skirt than in pants.

I really don't find any of her reasons convincing.

 

[Fantine]

When our friends purchased some land by a river (they were really granola people--they bought the land because a developer wanted to build a dam and turn the river into a lake and make resorts, and they wanted to save the environment) they built a little cabin and invited a group of us over...

To my horror, they didn't have a bathroom. They didn't even have an outhouse. You had to go into the woods and squat.

That was how I learned why women throughout the centuries wore skirts. They couldn't use flies, and they had to go to the bathroom in the woods.

Going to the bathroom in the woods sure was complicated when I wore pants.

But now that there is indoor plumbing, I don't much see the use in mandatory rules for skirts and dresses--although I probably wear skirts to work about 4 times a week in good weather.

 

[yatcup]

Anyone know about the wonderfully charming and brilliant philosopher couple Peter Geach and Elizabeth Anscombe?

If you do (or don't) and wanna hear an anecdote about Elizabeth regarding PANTS, let me know - I'll post it here.

 

[_Shannon_]

Reason number 10 is my favorite.

That said, mostly I wear skirts, because I have yet to have the time to learn how to make alterations so that any pants at all actually fit me. Being 5'2" and having had 8 babies--I just have some hip to waist ratios that they just don't make pants for....

Women should wear clothes they feel great in, and that don't make them look [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]. It's not rocket science.

 

[Michie]

Anyone know about the wonderfully charming and brilliant philosopher couple Peter Geach and Elizabeth Anscombe?

If you do (or don't) and wanna hear an anecdote about Elizabeth regarding PANTS, let me know - I'll post it here.

Post it.

 

[JoabAnias]

One word:

nuts.

Otherwise -

niqab

 

[yatcup]

Peter Geach (who is ancient and living!) is a Catholic philosopher. He has been awarded the papal cross for his philosophical work. GEM Anscombe was his wife - also a philosopher of good standing - particularly in the field of ethics. She was also RC and she and Geach had 8 kids together, I think. Maybe 9. I cannot recall. Anscombe trounced C.S. Lewis a couple of times in debates, was hugely anti-abortion, and was about as feisty and fiery as a woman can be.

Anyway, in the 1970s she visited the USA and went to some conferences at a famous university. Philosophers tend to be stubborn, outspoken, and male - its only in recent years that female philosophers have really increased in number.

During a break in the conference, several professors and other scholars went to a very refined restaurant in NYC. The group went in and after a few minutes the maitre d' approached Anscombe and told her she would have to leave, because they could not have a woman who was wearing pants in their establishment. She was breaking their dress code. Woman cannot wear pants, the man insisted.

The party was at a loss. They were embarrassed, angered, and perplexed. Anscombe took charge. She stood up and told the men to wait there, she would return in a moment. They probably thought she was going to go buy a dress. Instead, she marched outside, yanked off her trousers and marched back inside - tossing her pants at the appalled maitre d'.

Eventually, the restaurant relented and returned her pants. POINT MADE! Score one for GEM Anscombe! *LOL*

 

[Michie]

Peter Geach (who is ancient and living!) is a Catholic philosopher. He has been awarded the papal cross for his philosophical work. GEM Anscombe was his wife - also a philosopher of good standing - particularly in the field of ethics. She was also RC and she and Geach had 8 kids together, I think. Maybe 9. I cannot recall. Anscombe trounced C.S. Lewis a couple of times in debates, was hugely anti-abortion, and was about as feisty and fiery as a woman can be.

Anyway, in the 1970s she visited the USA and went to some conferences at a famous university. Philosophers tend to be stubborn, outspoken, and male - its only in recent years that female philosophers have really increased in number.

During a break in the conference, several professors and other scholars went to a very refined restaurant in NYC. The group went in and after a few minutes the maitre d' approached Anscombe and told her she would have to leave, because they could not have a woman who was wearing pants in their establishment. She was breaking their dress code. Woman cannot wear pants, the man insisted.

The party was at a loss. They were embarrassed, angered, and perplexed. Anscombe took charge. She stood up and told the men to wait there, she would return in a moment. They probably thought she was going to go buy a dress. Instead, she marched outside, yanked off her trousers and marched back inside - tossing her pants at the appalled maitre d'.

Eventually, the restaurant relented and returned her pants. POINT MADE! Score one for GEM Anscombe! *LOL*

 

[Victrixa]

I don't know what the big deal is with pants for some regarding women. For a long time, both men and women have been wearing 'dresses'. Even in the 19th century little boys were dressed as little girls until a certain age, with dress and all...

I don't understand the logic behind the no-pants policy for women. There isn't any, really.

One thing though, women should be feminine whether they wear pants or dresses. Ladies should look like ladies and men as men...

 

[_Shannon_]

Peter Geach (who is ancient and living!) is a Catholic philosopher. He has been awarded the papal cross for his philosophical work. GEM Anscombe was his wife - also a philosopher of good standing - particularly in the field of ethics. She was also RC and she and Geach had 8 kids together, I think. Maybe 9. I cannot recall. Anscombe trounced C.S. Lewis a couple of times in debates, was hugely anti-abortion, and was about as feisty and fiery as a woman can be.

Anyway, in the 1970s she visited the USA and went to some conferences at a famous university. Philosophers tend to be stubborn, outspoken, and male - its only in recent years that female philosophers have really increased in number.

During a break in the conference, several professors and other scholars went to a very refined restaurant in NYC. The group went in and after a few minutes the maitre d' approached Anscombe and told her she would have to leave, because they could not have a woman who was wearing pants in their establishment. She was breaking their dress code. Woman cannot wear pants, the man insisted.

The party was at a loss. They were embarrassed, angered, and perplexed. Anscombe took charge. She stood up and told the men to wait there, she would return in a moment. They probably thought she was going to go buy a dress. Instead, she marched outside, yanked off her trousers and marched back inside - tossing her pants at the appalled maitre d'.

Eventually, the restaurant relented and returned her pants. POINT MADE! Score one for GEM Anscombe! *LOL*

That story totally rules!

 

[Antigone]

As much as I love to wear pretty skirts and dresses, I think that pants are sometimes called for.

Of course, this is coming from someone who thinks the Right to Jeans should be in the Geneva convention.

 

[Claudia7]

I am a woman who switched from skirt/dress to pants many years ago. My opinion is, that pants even are more modest than skirts and dresses. The reason is, that they don't show legs ! Since i started wearing pants, I don't need pantyhose anymore, it's just knee-high stockings, they are much more comfortable !

 

[WarriorAngel]

How come women need to wear dresses to be modest - but men can wear pants?

I don't think pants existed for many centuries for either sex. So how come men aren't wearing robe type clothes to hide themselves?

I mean is it ok for a woman to be modest so men don't lust - but what of the sins of women when they see men in pants?

Who made these rules?

 

[Victrixa]

How come women need to wear dresses to be modest - but men can wear pants?

I don't think pants existed for many centuries for either sex. So how come men aren't wearing robe type clothes to hide themselves?

I mean is it ok for a woman to be modest so men don't lust - but what of the sins of women when they see men in pants?

Who made these rules?

Excellent comment!

 

[Antigone]

I mean is it ok for a woman to be modest so men don't lust - but what of the sins of women when they see men in pants?

Exactly. Men in skirts aren't exactly a turn-on for me, but that doesn't mean I think men should wear skirts.

It's the same thing that p*sses me off about burqas: women have to wear a potato sack because men are horny? Sheesh. Get a grip.

 

[Rebekka]

Exactly. Men in skirts aren't exactly a turn-on for me

Not even a Scot in a kilt?

 

[Gwendolyn]

Long skirts are horrible in the winter.

They get sopping wet and dirty up to the knee, and they get really bad salt stains from the sidewalk/street salt, too.

But if you wear a knee-length skirt, then half your legs freeze off in subzero temperatures (cotton/nylon tights don't make much of a difference when it comes to wind and windchill).

At least if I wear denim or cordoroy (sp?), my whole legs are covered and they don't fall off as quickly.

I spend a lot of time walking from point A to point B, even in the winter when it hits -30 degrees Celcius.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Exactly. Men in skirts aren't exactly a turn-on for me, but that doesn't mean I think men should wear skirts.

It's the same thing that p*sses me off about burqas: women have to wear a potato sack because men are horny? Sheesh. Get a grip.

I find the whole 'cover your face' thing rather chauvenist and sick. But then, things i read, they are very disdainful of women to begin with... and i imagine women often stick their tongues out at them, or make faces behind them.

I think if women should wear dresses, men should also wear long covering robes.

 

[Lady Bug]

dresses are better if you hate feeling bloated.

pants are better if you have to go the potty. (sorry for TMI)