Hi Jesusfreak5000, please spare me the "that is not what Calvinists believe" dodge. Assert what you do believe that differs from my characterization. Otherwise my view is unchallenged.
You did not lay a foundation in scripture, you cited John 6:44 and then asserted it said what it does not say, ditto for John 12:32.
"Bottom line, neither verse says what Calvinism claims, John 12:32 does not say "draw all [kinds] of men" and John 6:44 does not say "Everyone drawn by the Father comes to Me."
Thus no foundation in scripture.
John 6:44 does not say the everyone drawn will be raised. This assertion has no basis in scripture. What it does say is 100% of those given come to Me and 100% of those who come to me because they were given by the Father will be raised up. Proving one point, all those given are granted or allowed and they are all saved, does not prove the second assertion, all those drawn are given. No basis in scripture. Also all those allowed to come to Jesus do not necessarily come to Jesus. See Matthew 23:13.
Have Christ's "other sheep" been given to Him? Again, there is no basis in scripture for this assertion. There are folks who are "of My sheep" that are not yet "My sheep" and these "of My Sheep" and "of God" folks are receptive to the gospel because they believe in the Father. But they have not received the gospel yet, God has not credited their faith as righteousness yet, and God has not given them to Christ by spiritually placing them in Christ yet.
The sequence is clear, first a person must hear and understand the gospel to be drawn. Next, a person drawn must also have learned, which is to put their trust in Jesus. Now those whose faith God credits as righteousness are the ones who have heard and learned, John 6:45, and they are the ones given to Christ, and therefore come to Christ, and are saved. A person who has not been granted cannot learn because their heart has been hardened and therefore they are not given and so they cannot come to Me.
You did not lay a foundation in scripture, you cited John 6:44 and then asserted it said what it does not say, ditto for John 12:32.
"Bottom line, neither verse says what Calvinism claims, John 12:32 does not say "draw all [kinds] of men" and John 6:44 does not say "Everyone drawn by the Father comes to Me."
Thus no foundation in scripture.
John 6:44 does not say the everyone drawn will be raised. This assertion has no basis in scripture. What it does say is 100% of those given come to Me and 100% of those who come to me because they were given by the Father will be raised up. Proving one point, all those given are granted or allowed and they are all saved, does not prove the second assertion, all those drawn are given. No basis in scripture. Also all those allowed to come to Jesus do not necessarily come to Jesus. See Matthew 23:13.
Have Christ's "other sheep" been given to Him? Again, there is no basis in scripture for this assertion. There are folks who are "of My sheep" that are not yet "My sheep" and these "of My Sheep" and "of God" folks are receptive to the gospel because they believe in the Father. But they have not received the gospel yet, God has not credited their faith as righteousness yet, and God has not given them to Christ by spiritually placing them in Christ yet.
The sequence is clear, first a person must hear and understand the gospel to be drawn. Next, a person drawn must also have learned, which is to put their trust in Jesus. Now those whose faith God credits as righteousness are the ones who have heard and learned, John 6:45, and they are the ones given to Christ, and therefore come to Christ, and are saved. A person who has not been granted cannot learn because their heart has been hardened and therefore they are not given and so they cannot come to Me.
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