Oral sex, the thorn in my marriage.

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Created2Write

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BTW, I was writing my reply and didn't know that you had posted again, so there is no need for you to react so negatively. I haven't failed to answer your questions. I don't have the time to argue every perversion you can think of.

I didn't know, until now, that you were posting.

From the way you were talking, you seemed to be saying that you couldn't have an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] through intercourse. No offense intended. I wouldn't think that you would be so offended by what I said to you considering you advertised that you and your husband engage in oral sex.

I don't [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] through strictly intercourse. However, I hadn't referred to myself at all until the post you quoted, and even if I had, it's not your place to suggest anything unless I ask for it. Furthermore, your statement implied that I never got anything out of my sex life with my husband, and statements like that are entirely innapropriate.

I would think that if you are so personal about what goes on between you and your husband, that would be the last thing you would advertise. I seem to recall, and I believe that it was you, encouraging the OP to just give her husband OS and think of it as a way to give him pleasure.
So, I am sorry for trying to give you a little advice in that area.
Since most everyone here has giving her advice on how she can stomach OS, I figured I would give you the same advice as to how to enjoy intercourse the way God intended it to be.

What if I said your wife is probably not happy with your sex life because you don't engage in oral sex? You wouldn't appreciate it. I don't know you, nor do I know what you do to please your wife, so it is NOT my place to make any suggestions or assumptions about your marriage. The same applies to you.

I'm going to ignore your last statement, as I disagree entirely with it. Neither me nor my husband have EVER felt guilt, condemnation or dirtiness when performing oral sex. We feel a sense of true unity, oneness and intimacy that brings physical pleasure to us both. We thank God for the wonderful sex-life we have.
 
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Exodus35

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Oh my word.

Seriously? This is ridiculous. You would say masturbation is a sin then, because it kills sperm too.

And, by the way, just because something causes death does not mean God did not ordain it. God led the Isrealites to slaughter an entire nation of people; men, women, children and even their livestock. Satan didn't lead them to do it. God Himself did.

Hence, not EVERYTHING that causes death is of the devil.

God condemned them to death because of thier SIN and perversion.
And yes, masturbation is a sin. Sure is.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]When the subject of masturbation arises, it always refers to stimulating one's self for the gratification of sexual lust, or in stimulating one's self sexually while fantasizing about the lust of another person. In impure sexual fantasy, a person uses his own imagination as a inappropriate contentographic tool to give his body the ability to attain sexual gratification. In reality entertaining lustful fantasy is embracing a falsehood of the heart and mind, in an act of abuse of his own body in order to attain selfish sexual gratification. This is sexual idolatry! God hates falsehood - especially worshipping a false god! This is why God hates impurity in all it's forms.[/FONT]

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Masturbation is sex outside of the confines of marriage. Sex with yourself and not with your spouse. You have to use your imagination to obtain SELF gratification. It's all about you.

I hate to even get into all this because it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OP's SITUATION! I'm not posting anything else. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling and don't use the fact that you practice OS as a tool to make the OP feel as if she is neglecting her husband over something that is offensive and dirty to her. FIN

As for my wife and OS - She is the one that brought all this to my attention. Have a blessed day!
 
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Created2Write

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Wasn't me.

I encouraged her to figure out why she's uncomortable with it, but never said she should just give it to him.

Since then, she and I have talked privately and I have given her similar advice, though with more of an understanding of her circumstance.
 
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visionary

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It is NOT proven that that's what's being referred to with that scripture.

Genesis 38:8-10 (New International Version)

8 Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his sperm on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also.
 
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Created2Write

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God condemned them to death because of thier SIN and perversion.
And yes, masturbation is a sin. Sure is.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]When the subject of masturbation arises, it always refers to stimulating one's self for the gratification of sexual lust, or in stimulating one's self sexually while fantasizing about the lust of another person. In impure sexual fantasy, a person uses his own imagination as a inappropriate contentographic tool to give his body the ability to attain sexual gratification. In reality entertaining lustful fantasy is embracing a falsehood of the heart and mind, in an act of abuse of his own body in order to attain selfish sexual gratification. This is sexual idolatry! God hates falsehood - especially worshipping a false god! This is why God hates impurity in all it's forms.[/FONT]

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Masturbation is sex outside of the confines of marriage. Sex with yourself and not with your spouse. You have to use your imagination to obtain SELF gratification. It's all about you.

I hate to even get into all this because it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OP's SITUATION! I'm not posting anything else. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling and don't use the fact that you practice OS as a tool to make the OP feel as if she is neglecting her husband over something that is offensive and dirty to her. FIN

What if a spouse is lusting after their spouse, and only their spouse?

You know, never mind. I regret bringing it up. It wasn't even meant to be part of the discussion. All I can say is that I am so very glad my husband and I do not share the same convictions you share.
 
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Created2Write

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Genesis 38:8-10 (New International Version)

8 Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his sperm on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also.

He didn't die because of masturbation, he died because of disobedience. We also don't know that he was masturbating, either. There are a number of ways he could have "spilled his seed".
 
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We feel a sense of true unity, oneness and intimacy that brings physical pleasure to us both. We thank God for the wonderful sex-life we have.

Those of us who know this affirm your blessedness.:thumbsup:
 
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Autumnleaf

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I have never been totally comfortable giving oral sex. To be honest, I have always felt dirty doing it. My husband loves it and asks this of me often. I have refused him, and it has caused arguments. He says I am sexually frigid and stuck up. Recently our arguments have gotten so bad that I threatened to leave him. I am so angry at him.

Are there certain sexual practices that causes problems in your marriage? Am I the only one? Anyone know how I feel?

Tell him is sperm tastes bad and you will only do it if he becomes vegetarian because it tastes better then, research has shown this to be so-I forgot where I heard it though. The main thing is he probably won't do that to get that so you can say you'd do it but he isn't holding up his end of the bargain.

A dirty trick would be to make yourself throw up on him when you do it. That would make him have a bad association with it.

If you say you won't do it you will hurt his pride and blow up the whole thing, if you go at this from an oblique angle you can easily make this issue go away.
 
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One young man contemplating marriage was steered into the celibate priesthood by his priest relating to him a gory anatomical story of what lay beneath that fair skin and lovely tresses. Seems males must be made differently! The above post bought that story to mind.

John
NZ
 
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porterross

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I won't give direct advice to a married person here, but I will strongly recommend the message boards at The Marriage Bed on this subject. They can give you much better and more detailed advice than you will get here because of the more general nature of this Board and the more specific nature of their's.

The Marriage Bed • Index page



The Marriage Bed is a site full of helpful information from fellow, married Christians with specific sex questions and intimate issues. You can Google it. :)
 
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I'm not gonna debate the other subject stated before because it will be fruitless due to it was discussed in another thread a long time ago and it was like going around a merry-go-round too many times until you throw up, but my last statement is this. When in doubt, don't do it. The doubts are most likely there for a reason. The Holy Spirit speaks to us and helps us make healthy decisions and ultimately I think when in doubt about something it's a red flag to proceed on a subject with caution. Depend on God on what should or should not be in your marriage bed and than talk to your husband. As much as you love your husband God's opinion should always come before anyone else's. We must always build our lives around God, not God around our lives.
 
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God condemned them [Er and Onan] to death because of thier SIN and perversion. And yes, masturbation is a sin. Sure is.
Why is it that we think that since God "forgot" to tell us that masturbation is sin, that we can just write it into the margin of our Bibles and call it "inspired"?

The primary error of the Pharisees was not that they secretly didn't want to avoid sin, it was that they created a whole list of man-made rules by which they could ensure for themselves that they were not in sin... and at the same time, measure (and judge!) everyone else on whether they were in sin or not.

This is precisely the error that so many make on the issue of masturbation.

They correctly understand that lust is against God's moral law. They observe that masturbation often accompanies lust. They conclude that the way to know if you're lusting or not is to ask if someone is masturbating or not.

The problem is that God didn't establish that measure... man did.

Is it possible that masturbation simply did not exist when Scripture was written, so that would explain why God "failed" to forbid it? I don't think so.

Some point to the story of Onan who "spilled his sperm on the ground" as God's hatred of masturbation. It doesn't work. Let's take a look at why...

Gen. 38:8-10 NIV
8 Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his sperm on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also.
The text itself tells us what he did and why.

  • What? Spilled his sperm on the ground.
  • Why? To keep from producing offspring to his brother.
But why did God consider it a "wicked" thing that he did? Was it the "what" or the "why"?

Well, we know that God values obedience above sacrifice (1 Sam 15:22), it is easy to check whether there was an issue of disobedience or not.

  • Is there any Scripture that forbids masturbation? Is there any scripture that forbids a man from allowing his sperm to go anywhere but inside a woman's body? No.
  • Is there any Scripture that requires a man to raise up children to bear the name of his dead and childless brother? Yes.
Deuteronomy 25:5
When brothers live together and one of them dies and has no son, the wife of the deceased shall not be married outside the family to a strange man. Her husband's brother shall go in to her and take her to himself as wife and perform the duty of a husband's brother to her. 6"It shall be that the firstborn whom she bears shall assume the name of his dead brother, so that his name will not be blotted out from Israel.
Admittedly, this law as given after the events happened in Genesis 38, but clearly the social custom was already established before God wrote it into Scripture... and... it demonstrates pretty clearly why God considered what Onan did to be "wicked."

Here's the funny thing about trying to condemn masturbation... there's no Scripture that clearly condemns it, so instead, passages like this one are bastardized in the attempt to find any Scripture to support the predetermined conclusion.

In the frenzied effort to find a Scripture that condemns masturbation, we have completely passed over the one passage that (I believe) clearly does speak about masturbation! In my opinion, it gets passed over for the simple reason that it does not condemn it (therefore it must not be talking about masturbation, 'cuz we know it's wrong!).

Here's where the Bible describes masturbation:

Leviticus 15:16-19
When a man has an emission of sperm, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 17 Any clothing or leather that has sperm on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening. 18 When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of sperm, both must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening. 19 " 'When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.
There it is... verse 16.


Of course, some say that this is just a "nocturnal emission" or "wet dreams." while a man is asleep. Indeed, that situation is addressed in Deut. 23:10 ("nocturnal emission" is actually translated from words that literally mean "nighttime occurrence")

But that's not what we have here. This is how I know.

I've quoted 4 verses, and in them there are three situations mentioned that will make someone ceremonially unclean.

  1. The emission of sperm alone.
  2. The emission of sperm with a woman.
  3. The blood flow of a woman's menstrual cycle.
Starting with #3, clearly, there is no sin in a woman having a monthly cycle. God designed her that way. But, still, it made her ceremonially unclean. That was not punishment, nor was it an indication that her condition was sinful nor that the reason she was now unclean was sinful.

Moving on to #2, there is no sin in a man having sexual relations with his wife. Obviously, the emission of sperm was inside the woman, because there is no concern about the bedding getting soiled with the sperm. Again, No sin, but still the consequence was that they both be ceremonially unclean for the day. And, for the record... the man was awake when it happened.

Finally, we look again at #1. Is this only a "nocturnal emission"? Well, was the guy asleep? There's no basis to claim so... no more than the man and woman were in the next verse. But even so, it doesn't matter because even if it applies while the man is asleep, it must also apply if the man is awake. Therefore, this verse must also cover seminal emission by masturbation. So... what is the "penalty"? Where is the condemnation? The "consequences" are exactly the same as for sex with one's wife, or the "sin" of menstruating. In other words, masturbation is not condemned. Well, there is one more thing the masturbating man is told that he must do... clean up your mess! But even the soiled bedding is not forever ruined.

The Scriptures do not have a word for "masturbation." But, the concept is right there in Lev. 15. We do not need to find out God's perspective on it any further than that. Scripturally, masturbation is as much a natural part of the human condition as menstruation and marital intimacy.

But... you can't touch without LUST!!!

You can't? Says who? The Bible? (well, no...).

Those who say they can't touch without lust are only admitting that they cannot touch without lust. Well... they shouldn't touch (because lust IS forbidden by God). But they have no business creating man-made rules to use to assess righteousness before God.

Col. 2:20-23 (NASB) says this (emphasis mine):
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!" 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)--in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?

23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.
We must reject man-made rules... no matter how much they seem to "make sense!"...

But there's something more here... we are also told here that the man-made rules are of absolutely NO VALUE against sin!

Actually, when we invent man-made rules of righteousness which God has not declared, we actually serve the enemy instead.

  • First of all, by declaring a man-made rule to be God's, we are lying about God. That's a bad start.
  • Secondly, we are giving Satan a tool by which he can cause otherwise healthy and God-pleasing people to feel shame and guilt over something that is of no consequence to God.
  • Thirdly, we allow Satan to tie a natural urge and normal behavior (just as normal as marital sex and menstruation) with a genuine sin against God (lust) so that after a brutally difficult battle to stave off the natural, when finally giving in, there's absolutely no thought of resisting the temptation to lust, too. In fact, the victim was convinced that simply by deciding to touch, he has also decided to lust... and so he does.
Man-made rules for righteousness never help in the life of righteousness. They always serve to thwart it.

This post is not a promotion of masturbation... it is an absolute rejection of a man-made rule that has been elevated to be equal with God's Word.

God said, "don't lust." He didn't say, "don't touch." It is we who have made them inextricably linked. And it is a mistake.

Pastor Ed

P.S. My apologies for continuing a topic which is outside the scope of the OP, but this needed to be said.
 
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citizenthom

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Could we get some staff action against the blatantly anti-Biblical stuff in this thread? Twisting the story of Onan and claiming everything you feel bad about= sin is so far against the Bible as to constitute un-Christian advice.
 
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