Traditional Latin Mass Group and the Child Abuse Scandal

[KatherineS]

A group promoting the Traditional Latin Mass (the former Mass ritual used generally before 1962) has inivted a man considered by some to be one of the bishops most tolerant of abuse priests to lead in the celebration according to the former Mass form.

Cardinal Dario Castrillion Hoyos is scheduled to celebrate the first TLM at the National Shirne of the Immaculate Conception in Washington, DC on April 24th.

Until he retired a few years ago, Castrillion was the Vatican's official liaison to supporters of the Tridentine Mass both in schism and in communion with Rome.

He also has been connect to the scandal. When heading the Vatican Congregation for the Clergy, Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos congratulated a French bishop in a 2001 letter for not denouncing a sexually abusive priest to the police. In the letter dated 8 September 2001, Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos backed French Bishop Pierre Pican's decision not to denounce a priest who was later sentenced to 18 years in jail for repeated rape of a boy and sexual assaults on 10 others.

Pican, who received a suspended three-month jail sentence for not denouncing sexual abuse of minors, admitted in court he had kept Rev. René Bissey in parish work despite the fact the priest had privately admitted committing pedophile acts. "I congratulate you for not denouncing a priest to the civil administration," Castrillon Hoyos wrote. "You have acted well and I am pleased to have a colleague in the episcopate who, in the eyes of history and of all other bishops in the world, preferred prison to denouncing his son and priest." The letter cited Vatican documents and an epistle of Saint Paul to bolster its argument about special bishop-priest links.

Washington DC Archbishop Donald Wuerl has already pulled out of the Mass as has at least once priest. Cardinal William Baum is also rumored to be cancelling his attendence with the tained prelate.

Protests are expected outside the Shrine unless the Tridentine Mass grouop disinvites the Cardibal.

 

[SemperFidelis]

Well it will please you to know thar Cardinal Hoyos won't be the celebrant any more. As far as I know theere hasn't been an announcement on who will be celebrating the Mass yet.

Blessings,

Steve

 

[benedictaoo]

So you are trying to draw a link between Tradition Latin Mass and sex abuse enablers?

Really?

 

[BAFRIEND]

seeing as to how 85% of the sex abuse allegations occured prior to VII- maybe NO was a gift from God

 

[AMDG]

Of course, when we fail to note that the abuse charges are really about predatary homosexuals and not about pedophilia at all, we tend to end up blaming the wrong things--like attempts to link the Mass that gave us great Saints for centuries to a scandal caused by the few sinful men who were not living up to their vows to God.

 

[benedictaoo]

predatary homosexuals and not about pedophilia at all,

at all? Really?

and you imply "predatory homosexuals" as if it was somehow not as bad, or excusable....

It was sexual abuse against the will of children, be it a teen or a small child.

I would looove to know just what relevance you think "predatory homosexuals" even has on this?

kids, and yes, teens and tweens are still children, were sexually abused against their will and some were out right raped. Save the blind eye and apology towards the bishops who knew what was happening and enabled it.

There is no justification or excuse for it, what so ever.

The age of the child and the sexual orientation of the priest has what relevance? None.

It is just what it is.

 

[BAFRIEND]

well the Church has changed its stance on allowing gay men to become priests so there will be less victims- and as i stated the Church not anyone else is the authority on the priesthood

it is funny, when 85% of child molestors say they are homosexual, when the Church acts on that fact- once again it comes under attack but i know that the Church wil continue to keep this policy to protect children despite attack from those with a political agenda

 

[benedictaoo]

That has nothing to do with the Church's policy of covering up for the molester regardless of who they are and what age they like their victims.

Now, I am not going through all this again... I find it just sickening that there are people who are actually willing to down play sexual abuse and rape and act like, "oh it's a 12 year boy and the priest was gay, so it's not so bad, what's everyone mad about?"

Shame, shame, shame!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

That has nothing to do with the Church's policy of covering up for the molester regardless of who they are and what age they like their victims.

Now, I am not going through all this again... I find it just sickening that there are people who are actually willing to down play sexual abuse and rape and act like, "oh it's a 12 year boy and the priest was gay, so it's not so bad, what's everyone mad about?"

Shame, shame, shame!

What it says is, most of the priest who commited sexual abuse were not pedophiles, but, homosexuals.

And we already know that homosexuals are not necessarily pedophiles.

Jim

 

[MoNiCa4316]

So you are trying to draw a link between Tradition Latin Mass and sex abuse enablers?

Really?

I hope not........cause I don't see the logic of that at all.

seeing as to how 85% of the sex abuse allegations occured prior to VII- maybe NO was a gift from God

are you serious??

I think it's really strange that people are blaming the MASS of all things on the abuse scandal. I think that borders on blasphemy, to be honest... just saying.... do you realize the Mass is holy? the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass can't be the cause of anything evil in the Church.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I hope not........cause I don't see the logic of that at all.



are you serious??

I think it's really strange that people are blaming the MASS of all things on the abuse scandal. I think that borders on blasphemy, to be honest... just saying.... do you realize the Mass is holy? the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass can't be the cause of anything evil in the Church.

The point is that many people blame Vatican II and the Novus Ordo, for the sex abuse scandal in the Church.

This thread merely points out the disconnect between the two.

Jim

 

[LivingWordUnity]

The point is that many people blame Vatican II and the Novus Ordo, for the sex abuse scandal in the Church.

This thread merely points out the disconnect between the two.

Jim

Where is the solid evidence for such claims? The OP doesn't list a source.

 

[AMDG]

and you imply "predatory homosexuals" as if it was somehow not as bad, or excusable....

Actually, no I don't imply that it's somehow not as bad or is excusable (no more than the appointing of Kevin Jennings as Safe School Advisor is the government's way of excusing the behavior and even "grooming" the children...)

What I am saying is that we cannot equate the sinful actions of few the homosexuals (who shouldn't have been priests in the first place--and wouldn't have been according to canon law and the at-the-time-society's "therapy is the answer" while thinking of the embarrassment caused the victims) with the centuries-old Divine Liturgy that gave us most of our Saints.

 

[benedictaoo]

Monica, they and even you at times have blamed it on just about everything but who righfully gets the blame for the abuse. You gave Satan the blame.

Now we can add the Latin mass to the list and the Traditionalist Catholics. which makes no sense since blaming it on homosexuality implies the liberals are at fault... since it's they who blames it on celibacy.

This is now getting completely nonsensical.

For some reason it makes some folks sleep better at night of they isolate the issue to just gays liking young boys, or preist not marrying, or the price of tea in China going sky high.

The reality is, and here is where we all have to grow up, get courage and just deal with it, the bishops enabled the gay, boy liking, non marring celibate priests by covering it up and sending the gay young boy liking priest, non committed to their vows, non marrying celibacy is the problem, priests to other parishes for where fresh victims were waiting.

The Church no longer has the abused policy of protecting priest who like to rape young boys, thank God...

 

[KatherineS]

well the Church has changed its stance on allowing gay men to become priests so there will be less victims- and as i stated the Church not anyone else is the authority on the priesthood

it is funny, when 85% of child molestors say they are ....

98% say they are male. Maybe we need to consider banning men from the priesthood.

 

[benedictaoo]

Actually, no I don't imply that it's somehow not as bad or is excusable (no more than the appointing of Kevin Jennings as Safe School Advisor is the government's way of excusing the behavior and even "grooming" the children...)

What I am saying is that we cannot equate the sinful actions of few the homosexuals (who shouldn't have been priests in the first place--and wouldn't have been according to canon law and the at-the-time-society's "therapy is the answer" while thinking of the embarrassment caused the victims) with the centuries-old Divine Liturgy that gave us most of our Saints.

sinful actions of a few gay priests? It was also criminal actions of both priests and bishops...

how is that not down playing it?

and how, and in what way should this make us feel better? That it was a few gay preist who raped young boys instead of straight priests who raped small boys or girls?

and no, we can't just blame the few gay priest sinful actions, we must also blame the few gay priest enabling bishops sinful (and criminal) actions.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

The point is that many people blame Vatican II and the Novus Ordo, for the sex abuse scandal in the Church.

This thread merely points out the disconnect between the two.

Jim

Okay.. well it depends if they're blaming VII itself, or NO itself, or the abuses that crept in along with those... for example, I can argue that some of the changes in the Mass have lead to lesser reverence for the Eucharist. But that's not a fault of the Mass itself, or even of VII, because these changes were inserted post VII - for example: moving the Tabernacle, having everyone receive Communion in the hand, having many Eucharistic ministers when there are enough priests and deacons, etc. That's not part of the NO as it was planned, that's just what some parishes ended up doing.

But I wouldn't blame either NO or TLM on something unrelated to liturgy like the abuse scandals.

Monica, they and even you at times have blamed it on just about everything but who righfully gets the blame for the abuse. You gave Satan the blame.

Now we can add the Latin mass to the list and the Traditionalist Catholics. which makes no sense since blaming it on homosexuality implies the liberals are at fault... since it's they who blames it on celibacy.

This is now getting completely nonsensical.

For some reason it makes some folks sleep better at night of they isolate the issue to just gays liking young boys, or preist not marrying, or the price of tea in China going sky high.

The reality is, and here is where we all have to grow up, get courage and just deal with it, the bishops enabled the gay, boy liking, non marring celibate priests by covering it up and sending the gay young boy liking priest, non committed to their vows, non marrying celibacy is the problem, priests to other parishes for where fresh victims were waiting.

The Church no longer has the abused policy of protecting priest who like to rape young boys, thank God...

I don't see why it's wrong to blame the devil though for at least part of this. If the devil didn't exist, and didn't' tempt people, and if he wasn't trying to destroy the Church, wouldn't you agree none of this would have happened? This isn't lessening responsibility on anyone... it's not an excuse like the "devil made me do it". Of course people still have free will. But I believe this all happened precisely because the devil wants to destroy the Church. he's also behind all the media attacking the Pope now. I think that there is a spiritual reality behind all this.. there is a battle going on, and it affects events that happen in the Church and in our world in general.

 

[benedictaoo]

Where is the solid evidence for such claims? The OP doesn't list a source.

well to be fair, Kathrine is just as entitled to pin the sexual abuse and rape, on just as asinine a thing as everyone else.

 

[Dark_Lite]

The following graph summarizes most correlation arguments about pedophile priests:

 

[benedictaoo]

I don't see why it's wrong to blame the devil though for at least part of this. If the devil didn't exist, and didn't' tempt people, and if he wasn't trying to destroy the Church, wouldn't you agree none of this would have happened? This isn't lessening responsibility on anyone... it's not an excuse like the "devil made me do it". Of course people still have free will. But I believe this all happened precisely because the devil wants to destroy the Church. he's also behind all the media attacking the Pope now. I think that there is a spiritual reality behind all this.. there is a battle going on, and it affects events that happen in the Church and in our world in general.

The devil tempts us all but he is not an excuse.

You make an excuse for the priests and bishops. I can't use Satan as an excuse for when I sin- can I? I have to OWN the sin and I have to go and confess it.

You said, "we should not blame the Church for what the devil did..." I was stunned by that comment.

You can not excuse away their sin. They are to blame, They must OWN it and that's what has many people upset, the lack of accountability and the lack of OWNING the sin.

They want to make changes (which is needed and good), and offer blanket apologies which falls short of anyone stepping up, saying "Mea Culpa" and owning what they did.