Dutch Sheets?

[KingZzub]

Rather than apologize for falsely accusing Dutch Sheets, we simply get told he could have done more.

Dutch Sheets spoke to appropriate people. That is wisdom. I like the guy now. I don't know who he is, but he had concerns and dealt with them suitably, like Paul dealing with Peter to his face, not starting the "DirtyPeterWon'tEatWithGentiles.blogspot.com" website.


That reveals something. A great deal of something.

 

[ARBITER01]

Dave, I've always considered you a man who honors a brother. If you had realized Pastor Sheets issued that letter late summer 2008, when the meetings at Lakeland were still going on, I'm sure you wouldn't have stated the above. I apologize for not posting the date of the article.

The link which contains the article doesn't show dates till the bottom and it's a rather long statement as he had a lot of thoughts to share. A bit much for one to take the time to read, I'm sure.

Peace to you all...

Whatever the case is with mister Sheets, I do still question his delay.

I immediately talked to my pastor and kept him in prayer as soon as I seen the scenario unfolding. I clued him in on all of the things GOD was revealing to me about it, with scripture backing, I did not hold back my thoughts from him at all. By so doing, I feel I helped my pastor avoid any of the fallout from that when a couple that attend our church came back from there. He and I had discussed it enough, and compared our thoughts on it, that when they came back talking about miracles, miracles, miracles,... he was able to sidestep the hype and not be enticed by the false teaching.

It's not a bad thing to speak up against evil when one is absolutely sure of the leading from GOD. Some folks may not do it as politically correct as another, but nevertheless, we are not to remain neutral because it may injure social relationships, or go against the grain of current events. We are not always going to be the good guy with everyone, especially the closer we walk with our Lord.

 

[Hisgirl]

Whatever the case is with mister Sheets, I do still question his delay.

I immediately talked to my pastor and kept him in prayer as soon as I seen the scenario unfolding. I clued him in on all of the things GOD was revealing to me about it, with scripture backing, I did not hold back my thoughts from him at all. By so doing, I feel I helped my pastor avoid any of the fallout from that when a couple that attend our church came back from there. He and I had discussed it enough, and compared our thoughts on it, that when they came back talking about miracles, miracles, miracles,... he was able to sidestep the hype and not be enticed by the false teaching.

It's not a bad thing to speak up against evil when one is absolutely sure of the leading from GOD. Some folks may not do it as politically correct as another, but nevertheless, we are not to remain neutral because it may injure social relationships, or go against the grain of current events. We are not always going to be the good guy with everyone, especially the closer we walk with our Lord.

Mr. Sheets expressed feeling a check from the Lord when considering saying more than he did to the appropriate people. That's where I stop the questions, lest I become a judge of the Holy Spirit.

I'm sure your pastor appreciates your guidance.

 

[KingZzub]

We are not always going to be the good guy with everyone, especially the closer we walk with our Lord.

That is so true, when you preach Biblical health and wealth, so many people are so against the Word of God they demonise and slander you.

You just have to stay with God's Word and preach the truth, no matter what some people think.

 

[ARBITER01]

That is so true, when you preach Biblical health and wealth, so many people are so against the Word of God they demonise and slander you.

You just have to stay with God's Word and preach the truth, no matter what some people think.

I don't think that you and I will ever agree on what is biblical health, nor will we ever agree on a term called biblical wealth. As long as you are completely in the will of GOD for your calling, you don't have me or anyone like me as your concern, only GOD.

But do understand, if it is not like how Jesus did it, there is a good chance that we could meet one that is doing it His way, and they would completely walk all over us in the power of GOD on purpose, GOD would see to it just to wake us up.

Our understanding of scripture is not just relegated to Holy Spirit revelation, but by experience also.

 

[KingZzub]

I agree.

And I believe that as best as I know how, I am doing His will and what He wants. The miracles we have seen have been exceptional.

 

[SharonL]

Watchdog ministries do the church a great disservice, as they usurp the role of the Holy Spirit in people's lives. It is the Holy Spirit's job to lead and guide us into all Truth (John 16:13).

It is my belief that all Chrisitians should be led by the Holy Spirit, not told who they should not listen or give to by some self-appointed schmo on the Internet. Sure, we can offer our thoughts to others, but ultimately, people need to learn to be led by the Spirit of God for themselves.

The problem is, most watchdog ministries don't want you to think for yourself. They want you to agree with them lock, stock and barrel. And if you don't, well then, you're obviously not as Spiritual as they (think they) are.

Right on Pete!!!!

As I was reading through these posts - this was what I was going to post - why all the disagreements - Christians should be led by the Holy Spirit - not some leader of the church, no matter who they are - God didn't say I will tell so and so and you listen to those people - the Bible says 'My sheep will hear my voice' - not the voice of many other people voicing their own opinions.

When you go to a church and they preach something that is not the Word of God - don't you feel the Holy Spirit rise up in you and say 'No - that is not true' - Jesus did not die that we might be led by others - He said I will send you a 'Comforter' - not a third party to guide you. Yes, God anoints people to be pastors and leaders - but He will never allow you to be led down the wrong path if you are truly listening for His voice and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

 

[banish'd]

I haven't posted on here in quite some time. I left due to the careless bashing of brothers and sisters...harsh words, lies, rumors, accusations. Personal opinions were idolized at the expense of another's reputation.

Above, I bolded an example of what I am talking about. Those words were spoken with no factual knowledge and now you have accused a man of possibly not being able to discern truth from a lie.

You do not know Dutch Sheets, but are judging him. A man who claims to worship Jesus Christ as Lord and teaches that salvation is "We believe salvation, the gift of God, is provided solely by His grace through faith in Christ. By turning from sin in repentance, looking in faith to Christ and His death on the cross, man receives eternal life and is born again. There is no other name except Jesus Christ by which men may be saved."

This was taken directly from his church where he is head pastor.

Not only was Dutch Sheets not on stage that day in Lakeland, he never attended one meeting there. His own words regarding that 'coronation' was that it was "... unwise at best, naïve at least and at its worst, foolish."

The truth is, back during the Lakeland meetings, Dutch Sheets was silent. He did not attend the meetings, nor share his opinions. He finally did send out a letter expressing how he felt about the meetings and it was anything but supportive.

From Dutch Sheets:
Did I endorse the Lakeland meetings? No, I did not, nor did I condemn them. I acknowledged that healings were occurring and some were being saved, which I still believe and rejoice over. I realized and stated that the thousands of people attending were hungry and sincere, as were those involved in leading the 2 meetings.


The worship was regularly good. But looking past some of the immediate and positive results, I, like many, also looked ahead to the possible fruit from questionable doctrine and experiences, exaggeration and hype, youthful pride, character issues and the frightening potential of a 32 year “young” man leading a movement that could shape the future of the Church.


These things were frightening, very frightening, to others and me. When something has the potential of setting precedent, birthing a movement and being reproduced as a prototype, we are no longer simply endorsing good brothers, good intentions and miracles."


So you see Faulty, you have misspoken and attributed an act to an man who not only did not partake in that act, but called that act 'unwise, foolish and naive'.

Please be careful....if not for the sake of the reputation of others, for your own self. You wouldn't want to be known for spreading untruths.

Peace to you....

Hisgirl,

Thanks a million. That was the information I was looking for. Good girl!

 

[Faulty]

I haven't posted on here in quite some time. I left due to the careless bashing of brothers and sisters...harsh words, lies, rumors, accusations. Personal opinions were idolized at the expense of another's reputation.

Above, I bolded an example of what I am talking about. Those words were spoken with no factual knowledge and now you have accused a man of possibly not being able to discern truth from a lie.

You do not know Dutch Sheets, but are judging him. A man who claims to worship Jesus Christ as Lord and teaches that salvation is "We believe salvation, the gift of God, is provided solely by His grace through faith in Christ. By turning from sin in repentance, looking in faith to Christ and His death on the cross, man receives eternal life and is born again. There is no other name except Jesus Christ by which men may be saved."

This was taken directly from his church where he is head pastor. We Believe

Not only was Dutch Sheets not on stage that day in Lakeland, he never attended one meeting there. His own words regarding that 'coronation' was that it was "... unwise at best, naïve at least and at its worst, foolish."

The truth is, back during the Lakeland meetings, Dutch Sheets was silent. He did not attend the meetings, nor share his opinions. He finally did send out a letter expressing how he felt about the meetings and it was anything but supportive.

From Dutch Sheets:
Did I endorse the Lakeland meetings? No, I did not, nor did I condemn them. I acknowledged that healings were occurring and some were being saved, which I still believe and rejoice over. I realized and stated that the thousands of people attending were hungry and sincere, as were those involved in leading the 2 meetings.


The worship was regularly good. But looking past some of the immediate and positive results, I, like many, also looked ahead to the possible fruit from questionable doctrine and experiences, exaggeration and hype, youthful pride, character issues and the frightening potential of a 32 year “young” man leading a movement that could shape the future of the Church.


These things were frightening, very frightening, to others and me. When something has the potential of setting precedent, birthing a movement and being reproduced as a prototype, we are no longer simply endorsing good brothers, good intentions and miracles."

Dutch Sheets Apologies for Todd Bentley Lakeland Revival | The Voice Christian magazine

So you see Faulty, you have misspoken and attributed an act to an man who not only did not partake in that act, but called that act 'unwise, foolish and naive'.

Please be careful....if not for the sake of the reputation of others, for your own self. You wouldn't want to be known for spreading untruths.

Peace to you....

Actually I didn't misspeak anything. I said I "believe" he was on the stage that night, but if he was or wasn't matters very little. He's part of the Apostolic movement and a right-hand of C. Peter Wagner and it was Wagners NAR group who publically supported TB in his deception, and it was a portion of this NAR group on that stage that night.

Of course its only natural for these guys to distance themselves from TB after his fall. After all, they don't want that scandal to splatter all over themselves now do they. The comment you posted was only one of several that Sheets published concerning TB after the fact. It's what politicians refer to as 'damage control'.

Instead of buying into this stuff, as if its true, rather look at what Sheets and his crew invested into TB, and other 'Latter Rain' movements, leading up to the scandal.

 

[KingZzub]

The twisting that you do just to avoid saying "Sorry, I was wrong" is remarkable.

Maybe next time you preach a crowd of people should shout you down and tell you off for falsely accusing Dutch Sheets and then not having the front to say sorry when you are told he wasn't even where you said he was and didn't do what you said he did.

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

The twisting that you do just to avoid saying "Sorry, I was wrong" is remarkable.

Maybe next time you preach a crowd of people should shout you down and tell you off for falsely accusing Dutch Sheets and then not having the front to say sorry when you are told he wasn't even where you said he was and didn't do what you said he did.

QFT

 

[probinson]

Actually I didn't misspeak anything. I said I "believe" he was on the stage that night, but if he was or wasn't matters very little.

......

It's what politicians refer to as 'damage control'.

And what you just posted is what politicians refer to as 'spin' and 'backpedaling', when they have an agenda to push and realize that they've misspoken.

This is what you said;

As a general rule, I find its best to stay clear of any member of the New Apostolic Reformation group. As for Sheets personally, I believe he was one of the participants on stage during the coronation of Todd Bentley during the Lakeland Circus and Music Show. To me, that is a real indicator of if he can discern truth from a lie.

source

So what was it that you said was a real indicator of whether or not he can discern a truth from a lie? The fact that you "believe he was one of the participants on stage during the coronation of Todd Bentley during the Lakeland Circus and Music Show". But now all of a sudden when it's been proven that he wasn't on that stage, it "matters very little"?

Allrighty then.

 

[Seeking Him]

Actually I didn't misspeak anything. I said I "believe" he was on the stage that night, but if he was or wasn't matters very little. He's part of the Apostolic movement and a right-hand of C. Peter Wagner and it was Wagners NAR group who publically supported TB in his deception, and it was a portion of this NAR group on that stage that night.

Of course its only natural for these guys to distance themselves from TB after his fall. After all, they don't want that scandal to splatter all over themselves now do they. The comment you posted was only one of several that Sheets published concerning TB after the fact. It's what politicians refer to as 'damage control'.

Instead of buying into this stuff, as if its true, rather look at what Sheets and his crew invested into TB, and other 'Latter Rain' movements, leading up to the scandal.

Every Christian needs to learn just what the "Latter Rain" and "NAR" really believe for their own spiritual health. Paul said we are to study, and rightly divide the word of truth. We are to know the tree by the fruit it bears as Jesus said. NAR and Latter Rain have subsumed several churches in my area. Now everything goes. Mystical experience at the expense of the Word. Contact with "angels", money is payed to receive certain "ministries like "theophostic prayer", bizarre manifestations, ect.

 

[lovesblessing]

And, gee, another whole thread on the spirit filled forum that doesn't life up Jesus Christ and HIS goodness..........so sad......

 

[Andy S. Wright]

This "discussion" is like watching pit bulls fight to the death over a splinter of dried-up bone. What do you folks believe to be worse for the Body of Christ, the hermeneutical and/or moral failings of [insert false prophet/teacher's name here] or the continuous friendly fire attacks between the brethren these names seem to inevitably produce.

False teachers are a part of the deal. There will be men who try to "get over" on the gullible and uninformed. All of us were warned, repeatedly, by the N.T. authors about this. Our job as believers in Christ is to identify them, warn the masses and walk away from the prophaliers. Our job is NOT to convince people to see things the way we see them.

It's like a hurricane warning. Sound the alarm when the hurricane's path is discerned. It's up to the individual to move out of the storm's path or not. It isn't our job to round up everyone and drag them to safety. If GOD HIMSELF doesn't force people to go His way, who are we to spend one iota of effort trying to convince everyone to think as we think, see what we see, and do what we do?

For the love of God, please stop the pointless bickering and fighting over these men. They are not worth the damage being done to the Body of Christ.

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

And, gee, another whole thread on the spirit filled forum that doesn't life up Jesus Christ and HIS goodness..........so sad......

QFET

 

[Simon Peter]

Rather than apologize for falsely accusing Dutch Sheets, we simply get told he could have done more.

Dutch Sheets spoke to appropriate people. That is wisdom. I like the guy now. I don't know who he is, but he had concerns and dealt with them suitably, like Paul dealing with Peter to his face, not starting the "DirtyPeterWon'tEatWithGentiles.blogspot.com" website.


That reveals something. A great deal of something.

Ben,

Let's get this straight, you're accusing FaultySurplus of "falsely accusing Dutch Sheets" of being on the stage? When actually FaultySurplus only said, "I believe he was one of the participants on stage".

If that's it???
I think accusing FaultySurplus of "falsely accusing Dutch Sheets" is a bit of an exaggeration. [/britishunderstatement]


peace,
Simon

 

[Simon Peter]

Originally Posted by FaultySurplus

As a general rule, I find its best to stay clear of any member of the New Apostolic Reformation group. As for Sheets personally, I believe he was one of the participants on stage during the coronation of Todd Bentley during the Lakeland Circus and Music Show. To me, that is a real indicator of if he can discern truth from a lie.
​

Above, I bolded an example of what I am talking about. Those words were spoken with no factual knowledge and now you have accused a man of possibly not being able to discern truth from a lie.

You do not know Dutch Sheets, but are judging him. A man who claims to worship Jesus Christ as Lord and teaches that salvation is...

Hisgirl,

You appear to be judging FaultySurplus for 'judging' Dutch Sheets? And perhaps ironically, you accuse FaultySurplus of accusing Dutch of not being able to discern truth from a lie?

Well to fill in your factual knowledge on FaultySurplus' statement, you should be aware that FaultySurplus didn't accuse Dutch of anything that Dutch hasn't admitted himself (with the exception of being on the stage, which Faulty acknowledged was an error).

Dutch Sheets:
1) We, the leaders of the charismatic community, have operated in an
extremely low level of discernment. Frankly, we often don’t even try to
discern. We assume a person’s credibility based on gifts, charisma,
the size of their ministry or church, whether they can prophesy or
work a miracle, etc. (Miracles and signs are intended to validate God
and His message, not the messenger; sometimes they validate the
assignment of an individual, but never the person’s character, lifestyle
or spiritual maturity.) We leaders in the Church have become no
different than the world around us in our standards for measuring
success and greatness. This has contributed to the body of Christ
giving millions of dollars to undeserving individuals; it has allowed
people living in sin to become influential leaders—even to lead
movement, allowing them influence all the way to the White House.
Through our lack of discernment we built their stages and gave them
their platforms. We have been gullible beyond words—gullible
leaders producing gullible sheep.
When a spiritual leader we’re connected with violates trust, is
exposed for immorality or falls below other accepted standards of
behavior, it does not exonerate us simply to say we don’t condone
such behavior. Those we lead trust us to let them know whom to
trust. We have failed them miserably in this regard.
For this lack of discernment, and for employing and passing on
inappropriate standards of judgment, I repent to the Lord and ask
forgiveness of the body of Christ.
...

With great hope—Dutch Sheets



peace,
Simon

 

[KingZzub]

You just cannot see it can you Simon.

Jesus talks about taking the plank out of your own eye before you take the speck out of someone else's. Faulty wrote a post that accused Dutch of lack of discernment for being on the stage. He was not on the stage, so Faulty backpedalled. I just think he should apologize for that.

But the watchdog crowd would never apologize. They are always so sure that they are right, that their judgements of everyone are right and that there is no room for grace unless their demands of repentance are met.

I don't really care about Todd Bentley. The people in our church are grounded in the Word and why would they travel a zillion miles to revival when we see the deaf healed, cancers healed right here in London. One of our church members is in India right now - not to go to a crusade, but to hold a crusade.

It is the immaturity of the body of Christ that is the issue, and ranting and raving is not going to cure the problem. Any jackass can kick a barn down, but it takes wisdom to build a house.

Rather than go and yell in some meeting we were not invited to, and in essence steal a crowd that we did not build, why not go and build something great. Dutch Sheets to me seems contrite, humble and gracious. His detractors have yet to come across like that.

I know who I would rather share a meatball sub with.

Blessings,
Benjamin

 

[Simon Peter]

You just cannot see it can you Simon.

Jesus talks about taking the plank out of your own eye before you take the speck out of someone else's. Faulty wrote a post that accused Dutch of lack of discernment for being on the stage. He was not on the stage, so Faulty backpedalled. I just think he should apologize for that.

Yet, you get some sort of special dispensation, where you are allowed to criticise others? Why are you allowed to criticise people Ben, but others are not?

As for the plank/speck. The parable is not about two specks, or two planks, it's about a speck and a plank. One is very large, one very small, though I acknowledge that the small can be irritating. I don't think we should be judging fellow Christians for specks.

Todd has apparantly lied, cheated, got drunk, taught falsely, had an affair with the baby sitter, divorced his wife, married his assistant, covered up the affair, 'abandoned' his children.

FaultySurplus wrongly believed Dutch was on the stage.

Now tell me Ben, which one has the speck and which one the plank?