Dutch Sheets?

[KingZzub]

errr No. What Bentley says does not match what I say.

Bentley adheres to a WoF point of view, not a non-WoF point of view.

I think we are going to go around in circles on this one. I am a Word of Faith Christian - I believe the word of faith, I have faith in the Word, however you want to phrase it. I love listening to Kenneth Hagin, and often do for hours at a time.

Todd Bentley sounds NOTHING like Kenneth Hagin. If Hagin were preaching in the UK I would go. If Bentley was, I wouldn't. They are totally different. If you think they sound the same, to me that just shows that you haven't really got a clue what Word of Faith is actually about.

 

[Simon Peter]

What I am opposed to is people who have borne no fruit - no lives changed, no people being set free due to the truths they have preached - whose ENTIRE ministry is fault finding. That is not right. The fact that many of them have achieved nothing of any heavenly use is just proof that they are doing the wrong thing.

You might not think it important that there are no watchdog ministries in the Bible, it matters to me. I will never be starting one, nor will I sponsor one.

Perhaps you missed my earlier post:

"As for criticism in the Scriptures, it's found throughout the Bible. The OT prophets were known for their constant negative criticism. But you must know that...

The NT is not much different, where most books contain biting criticism of one sort or another, and it's the leaders who are singled out for the harshest criticism."

You should be careful judging how much fruit 'watchdog ministries' have borne. Those that print the truth have helped the Church greatly. Many of these ministries are also teaching ministries.

Thank God for Martin Luther who wasn't afraid to speak out against corrupt leadership.

 

[probinson]

Watchdog ministries provide the church with a great service.

Watchdog ministries do the church a great disservice, as they usurp the role of the Holy Spirit in people's lives. It is the Holy Spirit's job to lead and guide us into all Truth (John 16:13).

It is my belief that all Chrisitians should be led by the Holy Spirit, not told who they should not listen or give to by some self-appointed schmo on the Internet. Sure, we can offer our thoughts to others, but ultimately, people need to learn to be led by the Spirit of God for themselves.

The problem is, most watchdog ministries don't want you to think for yourself. They want you to agree with them lock, stock and barrel. And if you don't, well then, you're obviously not as Spiritual as they (think they) are.

 

[Simon Peter]

I think we are going to go around in circles on this one. I am a Word of Faith Christian - I believe the word of faith, I have faith in the Word, however you want to phrase it. I love listening to Kenneth Hagin, and often do for hours at a time.

Todd Bentley sounds NOTHING like Kenneth Hagin. If Hagin were preaching in the UK I would go. If Bentley was, I wouldn't. They are totally different. If you think they sound the same, to me that just shows that you haven't really got a clue what Word of Faith is actually about.

I'm not claiming Bentley is the 'poster boy' for WoF. Far from it. In fact he's clearly on the fringe.

But my original and accurate point, was that Bentley IS WoF.

 

[KingZzub]

Watchdog ministries do the church a great disservice, as they usurp the role of the Holy Spirit in people's lives. It is the Holy Spirit's job to lead and guide us into all Truth (John 16:13).

It is my belief that all Chrisitians should be led by the Holy Spirit, not told who they should not listen or give to by some self-appointed schmo on the Internet. Sure, we can offer our thoughts to others, but ultimately, people need to learn to be led by the Spirit of God for themselves.

The problem is, most watchdog ministries don't want you to think for yourself. They want you to agree with them lock, stock and barrel. And if you don't, well then, you're obviously not as Spiritual as they (think they) are.

@ Pete,

Absolutely. And to compare these kind of ministries - I heard one of the famous ones on Christian radio once and a caller asked who besides him was preaching the gospel properly - he paused for a long time and then said "I think just Billy Graham". That's right - out of every other denomination and church, only one guy besides him was getting it right.

@Simon,

And now you compare them to Luther! They haven't helped the church, they have hated the church. They have kept friends of mine from being ministered truth to by convincing them certain ministers are not from God by taking quotes out of context and making them say the exact opposite of what they are saying. They don't enter in to life themselves and hate peple who do enter in.

Yes, the NT has some scathing criticisms in it - for people who are self-appointed fruit inspectors. In Galatia, Paul tells us they were spying out freedom and checking out if people were circumcised. Self appointed genital police. Paul hoped they would cut the whole thing off. We still have the people who are obsessed with external factors and not the Lord and His grace and love and mercy. They need to take that hulking great plank out of their own eyes!

 

[KingZzub]

I'm not claiming Bentley is the 'poster boy' for WoF. Far from it. In fact he's clearly on the fringe.

But my original and accurate point, was that Bentley IS WoF.

And Jim Jones is a Baptist and David Koresh is a Methodist and Chris Brain is an Anglican. You judge a movement by its teachings, not by one person who most people in the movement know is wrong. Just because they are still teaching faith, life, covenant, health, wealth and the goodness of God and haven't gotten off track to preach "18 things wrong with Bentley", "Why Bentley is the antichrist", "What Happened When I went to Lakeland Part 93432", doesn't mean they agree with him. It just means that faith preachers have good priorities.

 

[probinson]

...Self appointed genital police...

.....

 

[KingZzub]

You should see the reaction when I preach it...!

 

[hislegacy]

I'm not claiming Bentley is the 'poster boy' for WoF. Far from it. In fact he's clearly on the fringe.

But my original and accurate point, was that Bentley IS WoF.

your original point is only accurate in your opinion. In reality it is not even in the realm of possibility.

I've been a Word of Fiath minister 25 years, have taught theology for two of the largest Word of Faith schools in the world. I know what Word of Faith teaches. Bently doesn't come close and he has not been endorsed by any national WoF ministry

 

[KingZzub]

your original point is only accurate in your opinion. In reality it is not even in the realm of possibility.

I've been a Word of Fiath minister 25 years, have taught theology for two of the largest Word of Faith schools in the world. I know what Word of Faith teaches. Bently doesn't come close and he has not been endorsed by any national WoF ministry

 

[banish'd]

your original point is only accurate in your opinion. In reality it is not even in the realm of possibility.

I've been a Word of Fiath minister 25 years, have taught theology for two of the largest Word of Faith schools in the world. I know what Word of Faith teaches. Bently doesn't come close and he has not been endorsed by any national WoF ministry

Balance,

Wow! With those kind of credentials maybe you can help me with something else? In the Oakland (California) Diocese they have Charismatic Renewal. I have visited a few Friday evening Charismatic Mass' with a friend. Just wondering, are the Catholics considered to be, "Word of Faith"? They seem to be authentic during their Charismatic Worship Service. Same music as (AOG).

 

[Ariellamb]

Hi there
I have read his book and was impressed with all of it but for one paragraph.Don't know if this thought from his book has been mentioned but here it is- 'God can be caught out by Satan', these may not be his exact words but from memory they are close.
My wife and i both said that for us that spoilt a very good book.

 

[hislegacy]

Balance,

Wow! With those kind of credentials maybe you can help me with something else? In the Oakland (California) Diocese they have Charismatic Renewal. I have visited a few Friday evening Charismatic Mass' with a friend. Just wondering, are the Catholics considered to be, "Word of Faith"? They seem to be authentic during their Charismatic Worship Service. Same music as (AOG).

No, Catholic Charismatics are just that: Catholic Charismatic

 

[Simon Peter]

Watchdog ministries do the church a great disservice, as they usurp the role of the Holy Spirit in people's lives. It is the Holy Spirit's job to lead and guide us into all Truth (John 16:13).
...
The problem is, most watchdog ministries don't want you to think for yourself. They want you to agree with them lock, stock and barrel. And if you don't, well then, you're obviously not as Spiritual as they (think they) are.

Hi Pete,

"watchdog" good one Watchman ministries often don't even like to be called "watchman".

Many of them are teaching ministries, who dare to criticise blatant error.

I don't care for ANY ministry that doesn't encourage you to think for yourself. In fact one of the cool things about ministries - that dare to criticise - is that you actually have an alternative view point to weigh, instead of the standard 'don't touch the annointed'...

@Simon,

And now you compare them to Luther! They haven't helped the church, they have hated the church.
...
Yes, the NT has some scathing criticisms in it - for people who are self-appointed fruit inspectors.

Yet you have several times criticised the fruit of "watchman" ministries! So how come you are allowed to be a fruit inspector Ben, but they are not?

As for Luther, he hated the corruption, the bogus teaching, the greed in the church. He did not hate the Bride of Christ.

And Jim Jones is a Baptist and David Koresh is a Methodist and Chris Brain is an Anglican. You judge a movement by its teachings, not by one person who most people in the movement know is wrong. Just because they are still teaching faith, life, covenant, health, wealth and the goodness of God and haven't gotten off track to preach "18 things wrong with Bentley", "Why Bentley is the antichrist", "What Happened When I went to Lakeland Part 93432", doesn't mean they agree with him. It just means that faith preachers have good priorities.

Ahhhh...Bentley. My original point, which I stand by, is that Todd Bentley is Word of Faith. I have proven this assertion to my own satisfaction. Anyone can view his video and his teachings and make their own minds up.

Any suggestion that I think Bentley is a 'good WoFer', a 'dyed in the wool WoF', a WoF poster boy, an ordained WoF Pastor etc. are merely distractions that WoF people have brought up on this thread, not me. Again, my only assertion is that Bentley is WoF.

The Seventh Day Adventists have to live with Koresh, the AoG with Jim Jones, well WoF has to live with Bentley.

I've been a Word of Fiath minister 25 years, have taught theology for two of the largest Word of Faith schools in the world. I know what Word of Faith teaches. Bently doesn't come close and he has not been endorsed by any national WoF ministry

Balance, respectfully, you could be the Pope himself; I would still nail my disagreements and criticism on the church door.

...I did not say Bentley has been endorsed by any national WoF ministry. I only said Bentley is WoF.

Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised that you guys are trying to distance WoF/yourselves from Bentley, I would do the same. I should be encouraged that you are so eager to say 'he's not one of us'. And I'm glad you think so, but he thinks he one of you.

peace,
Simon

 

[hislegacy]

Word of Faith doesn't have to distance itself from one who was never part of Word of Faith.

 

[KingZzub]

This is from a guy who thinks charismatic Catholics are Word of Faith because they sing the same songs as Assemblies of God churches.

If this is the kind of information service watchdog ministries are providing the body of Christ, I am glad I don't listen to them.

 

[ARBITER01]

Maybe something from his own mouth about who he affiliated himself with,..

Todd Bentley is Word of Faith Video

 

[KingZzub]

Shame he didn't spend more time listening to him.

 

[KingZzub]

In addition, Arbiter, do you not once question the logic of using a video of Todd Bentley saying most of the criticism he has received has been from the Word of Faith camp as proof that he is Word of Faith?

 

[KingZzub]

Also, if Todd Bentley got into the pulpit and said he say an angel called Daphne or raised the dead in Timbuctoo you would all call him a liar. Yet, he says he is Word of Faith and you all believe it. Double standard?