PelosiCare: A few details.

Steve Petersen

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From the WSJ online:

Government control freaks on the loose.

Any changes in your current policy: must be approved by Big Sam (sections 202 and 224.)

Costs for middle income families will rise:

On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17% of his pre-tax income.

Copays and deductibles will vary, but coverage will not. (section 303).

When you file your taxes, you must prove that you have a qualified plan (section 59b.) If you don't you will face thousands of dollars in fines. Illegals are exempt. Non payment of fines lands you in jail.

Section 412: Employers must offer a plan that covers 72% of costs or incur an 8% payroll tax. Do the math. What do you think they will do? My employer currently foots 30% of my payroll for my families medical insurance.

Medicare funding cut by 500 billion.

Sec. 1302 (pp. 672-692) moves Medicare from a fee-for-service payment system, in which patients choose which doctors to see and doctors are paid for each service they provide, toward what's called a "medical home."
The medical home is this decade's version of HMO-restrictions on care. A primary-care provider manages access to costly specialists and diagnostic tests for a flat monthly fee. The bill specifies that patients may have to settle for a nurse practitioner rather than a physician as the primary-care provider. Medical homes begin with demonstration projects, but the HHS secretary is authorized to "disseminate this approach rapidly on a national basis."
A December 2008 Congressional Budget Office report noted that "medical homes" were likely to resemble the unpopular gatekeepers of 20 years ago if cost control was a priority.

Section 1114 replaces physicians with physicians assistants for hospice care.

Secs. 1158-1160 (pp. 499-520) initiates programs to reduce payments for patient care to what it costs in the lowest cost regions of the country. This will reduce payments for care (and by implication the standard of care) for hospital patients in higher cost areas such as New York and Florida.

Sec. 1161 (pp. 520-545) cuts payments to Medicare Advantage plans (used by 20% of seniors). Advantage plans have warned this will result in reductions in optional benefits such as vision and dental care.
 
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LUColt27

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I was thinking the same thing. Serious anger issues.
Why wouldn't anyone be angry, considering that the government is spending money as though it's going out of style, and are currently running a budget deficit in the 13-digit range? Now granted, I don't advocate violence against politicians (that would lower us to their level, and the last thing we need are more politicians), but at the very least, they have to be called onto the carpet to answer for their actions.
 
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CaDan

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Why wouldn't anyone be angry, considering that the government is spending money as though it's going out of style, and are currently running a budget deficit in the 13-digit range? Now granted, I don't advocate violence against politicians (that would lower us to their level, and the last thing we need are more politicians), but at the very least, they have to be called onto the carpet to answer for their actions.

Elections? We haz them. Your side lost.
 
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LUColt27

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Elections? We haz them. Your side lost.
That "Indy" in my post isn't just because I like the Colts. I refuse to take sides with either of these collections of weak-minded clowns who couldn't do something correct if I paid them to. You're correct, in that the candidates I voted for lost, but even with that, voting Democrat or Republican is pretty much a waste of a vote, and if those are my best choices, they don't deserve to run this country.
 
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nvxplorer

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Why wouldn't anyone be angry, considering that the government is spending money as though it's going out of style, and are currently running a budget deficit in the 13-digit range? Now granted, I don't advocate violence against politicians (that would lower us to their level, and the last thing we need are more politicians), but at the very least, they have to be called onto the carpet to answer for their actions.
I don't get angry over politics, and I can think of numerous reasons why no one should be angry.

The comment I made was concerning the rhetoric. I guess I just don't think that way. Even when I am angry, the thought of putting a bullet to someone's head never occurs to me. I realize your comment was rhetorical, but I can't relate to using extreme violent rhetoric in political discussions.
 
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LUColt27

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I don't get angry over politics, and I can think of numerous reasons why no one should be angry.

The comment I made was concerning the rhetoric. I guess I just don't think that way. Even when I am angry, the thought of putting a bullet to someone's head never occurs to me. I realize your comment was rhetorical, but I can't relate to using extreme violent rhetoric in political discussions.
Understandable, however, since I've been old enough to pay attention, the two topics that bring out the worst in people are politics and religion. To that end, I try to maintain civil discussions in both topics, knowing this, so I don't lose my cool with someone who disagrees with me. I will show my displeasure with wasteful government programs and those who come up with them, but I wouldn't dream of physically harming them, well, at least not beyond trying to slap some sense into them.
 
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nvxplorer

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You don't get angry when people who are supposed to be serving this nation strip us of our liberty, abuse their power, ignore the Constitution and are either very inept or corrupt?

I can think of few things more deserving of anger than that.

These people are traitors to this country, and deserve to meet the punishment handed out to traitors.
Cool. Drive safely.
 
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Saving Hawaii

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You don't get angry when people who are supposed to be serving this nation strip us of our liberty

What liberties have you been stripped of?

abuse their power

Can you name any ongoing abuses of power? Things happen, nobody doubts that, but they get dealt with.

ignore the Constitution

The system the Founding Fathers set up to protect the importance of the Constitution seems to agree with these politicians. That you have some radical understanding of the Constitution is irrelevant. The Supreme Court is the final arbitrator here.

and are either very inept or corrupt?

Isn't it our fault when we elect inept or corrupt leaders? We got rid of Corzine just a few days ago (whom I understand would well fit both of those descriptions).

Politicians like Nancy Pelosi you're afraid of not because they're inept, but because they're very competent and you don't agree with them. That's irrelevant and doesn't make them corrupt, because Nancy Pelosi has no responsibility to represent you. She has a responsibility to represent folks living in San Francisco, and unless you're unaware - most of them think that she isn't doing enough to reform healthcare.

I can think of few things more deserving of anger than that.

These people are traitors to this country, and deserve to meet the punishment handed out to traitors.

Yeah, not so much.
 
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salida

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No, people shouldn't be angry but happy that their taxes will go up with lower quality healthcare; and that their maxist government is hitting them over the head. We are happy for the control mongers. If a person doesn't think their taxes won't go up they are very naive.
 
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salida

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Steve-

The lefties like the idea of the government is taking care of them-they think the government loves them. When they are forced to pay high premiums, they won't feel so powerful. Especially, when healthcare is rationed on them; but they think , "oh it won't happen to me, I'm special hahaha". Pelosi and Reid are marxist - there is nothing competent about them nor do they have nothing in common with our Founding Fathers who were freedom lovers and antimarxist. They thumbed their nose at the american people to ram this healthcare bill through- they don't represent the people-but are dictators.
 
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Ringo84

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jamesrwright said:
Can you say that with a straight face? I know that Nancy can..

If you're going to continue with low blows, I'm just going to start ignoring you.

salida said:
The lefties like the idea of the government is taking care of them

You know all "lefties" personally and are therefore qualified to make a sweeping statement like that?

Pelosi and Reid are marxist

Can you prove it, or is "Marxist" a convenient buzzword to use on ideas and people that you don't like?

our Founding Fathers who were freedom lovers and antimarxist.

If I'm not mistaken, Marxism didn't exist at the time of our country's founding.
Ringo
 
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AirForceTeacher

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I am very curious about how it will affect my own healthcare. As a military member I get pretty good care with no out of pocket for me, and I think pretty reasonable out of pocket for my kids. My health costs shouldn't rise or fall - I pay no premiums at all, so I can't look forward to a decrease in premiums to offset the increase in my taxes.
 
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