My Lunar Dragon Challenge

[juvenissun]

The mods closed my unicorn thread, apparently because the Invisible Pink Unicorn is often used as an argument against Christian Apologetics, even though that isn't what I was using it for. So, I am replacing it with this.

The Chinese have long claimed that a dragon ate chunks of the moon and that was the cause of the moon's phases. After the New Moon phase, the moon would grow back and the dragon would start eating it again.

Show me evidence that a Celestrial Dragon eats the Moon.

I will take your word on it if you say that none exists.

Do not push anything you do not understand to Chinese. It is not a dragon, but is a dog, a cosmo-dog.

 

[Split Rock]

In considering just this bit of info I dug up I am unable to determine if the claim is true or not.

Therefore, we should consider it to be true, or as likely as anything them thar scientists say... correct?

There is an even wilder myth floating around though. Get this. We use to be fish. Yah fish. Can you see the resemblance? Not just random mutations but a complete transformation. From the head, brain, eyes, skin, heart, lungs, bladder, arms, legs, knees, elbows, skin, fingers, toes, kidneys, finger nails, toe nails, hair, ears, teeth, mouth, tongue, reproduction system, nervous system, respitory system. and the list goes on and on and on. Not only do we have things that fish dont, everything we have that they have are completely different. And those who believe this believe while all these random mutations are happening (most of which are detrimental) male and female must evolve simutaniously along with each other or else.

Wow. Another list of PRATTS. I am surprised! Well... not really. Lets see:
1. We have in common many of those organs you mentioned in with fish (especially lobfined fish). Brain, nervous system, kidney, arms, legs, heart, muscles, rib cage, spine, metabolic functions, etc. Lungs and swim baldders are homologous. We both have more in common than not. They are not "completely different" as you claim. Why is that?
2. Detrimental mutations are selected against in a population, while beneficial ones are selected for. Even a small improvement in fitness provided by a mutation will be increased in a population over time.
3. Populations evolve, not individuals! Therefore the "problem" of males and females evolving simulataniously is hardly an issue.

When they find a so called transitional they have NO WAY of proving its from the human line. They dont know what it used to be or what its going to be. For instance the Tiktaalik. What creature did the Tiktaalik evolve into ? A lion, was it us, the Homo sapien? Were we a Tiktaalik at one time? You have to be gullible to accept that. I dont think I can ever be that gullible.

Tiktaalik represents a transitional between lobfinned fish and tetrapods, as it has characteristics of both. Even if that particular species did not evolve into tetrapods, then a related one did. There are, btw, at least 14 named genera of such "fishapods," all from the same time period. The time period just before true tetrapods evolved, strangely enough. As far as gullible, you clearly do not even understand basic population genetics or evolutionary mechanisms. Yet you claim only the "gullible" accept evolution. Are you sure you are not the gullible one, swallowing all the lies shovelled to you by Professional Creationists peddling their deceit?

Below are just the skeletons of a fish and a human, can you imagine the random mutations(most of which are detrimental)just for this transformation. Now put all the inards and outards in place. Wow, talk about gullible to believe that. Its miracle after miracle. Are you sure natural selection isn't a god?

Take a closer look at those skeletons. There are more similarities than not. The "inards and outards" are already pretty much in place. Are all teh similarities in development, anatomy, biochemistry and genetics all coincidence? Once again you throe "gullible" around, but you seem to be the gullible one here.

 

[Split Rock]

Do not push anything you do not understand to Chinese. It is not a dragon, but is a dog, a cosmo-dog.

References?

 

[MoonLancer]

Below are just the skeletons of a fish and a human, can you imagine the random mutations(most of which are detrimental)just for this transformation. Now put all the inards and outards in place. Wow, talk about gullible to believe that. Its miracle after miracle. Are you sure natural selection isn't a god?

Explain specifically what changes would require a miracle and why said change could not happen without it.

life has been around for a 4 billion years. Its had a lot of time for change to occur. Your Gullible for believing what your church tells you without actually verifying it yourself.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

As far as a Celestial Dragon, no one knows everything the ONLY true God has created out there but there are plenty of references in the bible to dragons. Here are a few found in the KJV .

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Deuteronomy 32:33 their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Job 30:29 I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Psalms 44:19 Though thou hast sore broken us in the place of dragons, and covered us with the shadow of death. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Psalms 74:13 Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Psalms 148:7 ¶ Praise the LORD from the earth, ye dragons, and all deeps: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Isaiah 13:22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Isaiah 34:13 And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, and a court for owls. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Isaiah 35:7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Isaiah 43:20 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jeremiah 9:11 And I will make Jerusalem heaps, and a den of dragons; and I will make the cities of Judah desolate, without an inhabitant. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jeremiah 10:22 Behold, the noise of the bruit is come, and a great commotion out of the north country, to make the cities of Judah desolate, and a den of dragons. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jeremiah 14:6 And the wild did stand in the high places, they snuffed up the wind like dragons; their eyes did fail, because there was no grass. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jeremiah 49:33 And Hazor shall be a dwelling for dragons, and a desolation for ever: there shall no man abide there, nor any son of man dwell in it. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jeremiah 51:37 And Babylon shall become heaps, a dwellingplace for dragons, an astonishment, and an hissing, without an inhabitant. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Micah 1:8 ¶ Therefore I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and : I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Malachi 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nehemiah 2:13 And I went out by night by the gate of the valley, even before the dragon well, and to the dung port, and viewed the walls of Jerusalem, which were broken down, and the gates thereof were consumed with fire. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Psalms 91:13 Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Isaiah 27:1 ¶ In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Isaiah 51:9 ¶ Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jeremiah 51:34 Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon hath devoured me, he hath crushed me, he hath made me an empty vessel, he hath swallowed me up like a dragon, he hath filled his belly with my delicates, he hath cast me out. [/FONT]

The Chinese have long held traditions of dragons.Fire breathing ones that flew as well. Their culture is loaded with stories and pictures, parades and all sorts of stuff pertaining to dragons.I will post a few links to images of what you speak of here.

A dragon taking a bite out of the moon

A bigger dragon looking like he can down the moon in one bite

A more relaxed image of the claim

What's this? A dragon spirit after the moon?

Is it a myth, or not? The story unfolds even further.


In considering just this bit of info I dug up I am unable to determine if the claim is true or not. There is an even wilder myth floating around though. Get this. We use to be fish. Yah fish. Can you see the resemblance? Not just random mutations but a complete transformation. From the head, brain, eyes, skin, heart, lungs, bladder, arms, legs, knees, elbows, skin, fingers, toes, kidneys, finger nails, toe nails, hair, ears, teeth, mouth, tongue, reproduction system, nervous system, respitory system. and the list goes on and on and on. Not only do we have things that fish dont, everything we have that they have are completely different. And those who believe this believe while all these random mutations are happening (most of which are detrimental) male and female must evolve simutaniously along with each other or else.
When they find a so called transitional they have NO WAY of proving its from the human line. They dont know what it used to be or what its going to be. For instance the Tiktaalik. What creature did the Tiktaalik evolve into ? A lion, was it us, the Homo sapien? Were we a Tiktaalik at one time? You have to be gullible to accept that. I dont think I can ever be that gullible.



Below are just the skeletons of a fish and a human, can you imagine the random mutations(most of which are detrimental)just for this transformation. Now put all the inards and outards in place. Wow, talk about gullible to believe that. Its miracle after miracle. Are you sure natural selection isn't a god?

Do you have any idea why we are susceptable to hiccups?

I'll give you a hint. It's because we used to be fish! Get over it. Accept it. Move on. You'll be glad you did.

 

[Meshach]

Do you have any idea why we are susceptable to hiccups?

I'll give you a hint. It's because we used to be fish! Get over it. Accept it. Move on. You'll be glad you did.

Thats a good one. That settles it then.We have hiccups therfore we use to be fish. None of the prior rebutles to my post even came close to convincing me of the fairy tale that we use to be fish. But hiccups, give me time to think on that one. Long Pause........Nope. Sorry cant sell that here. It is funny though. Are you guys stand up comedians by any chance? You dont believe God did it , but you believe we use to be fish? How ironic. Have you found any transitional fossils that are most certainly in the Homo sapien line that are intermediate between say the first cell and fish? Now they would have to be without a doubt, absolutely for sure, definately in the line of the first cell and a fish on its way to us. If you cant prove it without a doubt then its a guess, a hope, a faith. No two ways about it. Dont you find it interesting all you find is bones? As I said in another post , say in a million or so years from now, what ever we have evolved into .(lol) Do you think they will find just bones from our present day? What the heck were we doing for millions of years, then all of a sudden in the last two hundred years we are walking on the moon and a whole lot of other stuff. Its ok, if you want to guess what we were doing thats fine. Just hunting and gathering? Playing kick the rock? Carving some hand tools?

 

[Thistlethorn]

Thats a good one. That settles it then.We have hiccups therfore we use to be fish. None of the prior rebutles to my post even came close to convincing me of the fairy tale that we use to be fish. But hiccups, give me time to think on that one. Long Pause........Nope. Sorry cant sell that here. It is funny though. Are you guys stand up comedians by any chance? You dont believe God did it , but you believe we use to be fish? How ironic. Have you found any transitional fossils that are most certainly in the Homo sapien line that are intermediate between say the first cell and fish? Now they would have to be without a doubt, absolutely for sure, definately in the line of the first cell and a fish on its way to us. If you cant prove it without a doubt then its a guess, a hope, a faith. No two ways about it. Dont you find it interesting all you find is bones? As I said in another post , say in a million or so years from now, what ever we have evolved into .(lol) Do you think they will find just bones from our present day? What the heck were we doing for millions of years, then all of a sudden in the last two hundred years we are walking on the moon and a whole lot of other stuff. Its ok, if you want to guess what we were doing thats fine. Just hunting and gathering? Playing kick the rock? Carving some hand tools?

Nobody is trying to convince you of anything. We'll settle for highlighting how ridiculous your ideas are. Beyond that, you're free to wallow in your self-imposed ignorance.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Thats a good one. That settles it then.We have hiccups therfore we use to be fish. None of the prior rebutles to my post even came close to convincing me of the fairy tale that we use to be fish. But hiccups, give me time to think on that one. Long Pause........Nope. Sorry cant sell that here. It is funny though. Are you guys stand up comedians by any chance? You dont believe God did it , but you believe we use to be fish? How ironic. Have you found any transitional fossils that are most certainly in the Homo sapien line that are intermediate between say the first cell and fish? Now they would have to be without a doubt, absolutely for sure, definately in the line of the first cell and a fish on its way to us. If you cant prove it without a doubt then its a guess, a hope, a faith. No two ways about it. Dont you find it interesting all you find is bones? As I said in another post , say in a million or so years from now, what ever we have evolved into .(lol) Do you think they will find just bones from our present day? What the heck were we doing for millions of years, then all of a sudden in the last two hundred years we are walking on the moon and a whole lot of other stuff. Its ok, if you want to guess what we were doing thats fine. Just hunting and gathering? Playing kick the rock? Carving some hand tools?

Evolution: It's a FACT. Accept it. You'll be smarter because you did.

Where do you think the three little bones in our middle ear came from Hoss? If you guessed fish, you'd be right. See, smarter already.

 

[Meshach]

Evolution: It's a FACT. Accept it. You'll be smarter because you did.

Where do you think the three little bones in our middle ear came from Hoss? If you guessed fish, you'd be right. See, smarter already.

Hiccups and three little bones in our middle ear. Well I am sure glad you guys are SO gullible because that would not convince me in the LEAST. I know . I know, I just dont under stand evolution. That seems to be all your responses to those who wont swallow your fairy tales. Did you find that transitional yet between the first cell and the fish? Or are you still hoping, guessing and having faith?

 

[Thistlethorn]

Hiccups and three little bones in our middle ear. Well I am sure glad you guys are SO gullible because that would not convince me in the LEAST. I know . I know, I just dont under stand evolution. That seems to be all your responses to those who wont swallow your fairy tales. Did you find that transitional yet between the first cell and the fish? Or are you still hoping, guessing and having faith?

Yes, we have the fossils. What do you have?

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Hiccups and three little bones in our middle ear. Well I am sure glad you guys are SO gullible because that would not convince me in the LEAST. I know . I know, I just dont under stand evolution. That seems to be all your responses to those who wont swallow your fairy tales. Did you find that transitional yet between the first cell and the fish? Or are you still hoping, guessing and having faith?

Ever wondered why gill slits make an appearance during human fetal development? Sure you have. It's because we used to be... You guessed it, FISH! Cool huh?

(I won't even get into HOX genes with you - you probably wouldn't understand anyway)

 

[juvenissun]

References?

They are in Chinese. If you can read these two words, then I will point one to you: 天狗

 

[Meshach]

Yes, we have the fossils. What do you have?

Let me guess, is this one?


Science writer Lisa Shawver once observed that trilobites had “the most sophisticated eye lenses ever produced by nature” How they know this I am not sure, but its an interesting observation. After all we have to see so why not have eyes? Why not start out with the best?

So now you have indisputable, absolutely for sure, can gaurantee without a shadow of doubt that the trilobite is a intermediate form between the first cell and a fish in line with the Homo sapien? Your not hoping or guessing or having faith at all? You can PROVE this? Please do. And no fairy tale hypothesis please.

 

[pgp_protector]

They are in Chinese. If you can read these two words, then I will point one to you: 天狗

heavenly dogs

 

[Meshach]

Ever wondered why gill slits make an appearance during human fetal development? Sure you have. It's because we used to be... You guessed it, FISH! Cool huh?

(I won't even get into HOX genes with you - you probably wouldn't understand anyway)

This keeps getting funnier. Hiccups, three tiny bones and now gill slits in human fetal development. You see and want gill slits because you need all the help you can get to pass your fairy tale on to others. Did they not stop calling them gill slits like a hundred years ago? They call them Pharyngeal "pouches" and they have absolutely nothing to do with breathing or resperation. No, not worm, reptile, fish or pig. The embryo is human right from the moment of conception. Haeckel can take a hike.And dont bother with the HOX genes, I have had enough laughs for now

 

[Thistlethorn]

Let me guess, is this one?


Science writer Lisa Shawver once observed that trilobites had “the most sophisticated eye lenses ever produced by nature” How they know this I am not sure, but its an interesting observation. After all we have to see so why not have eyes? Why not start out with the best?

So now you have indisputable, absolutely for sure, can gaurantee without a shadow of doubt that the trilobite is a intermediate form between the first cell and a fish in line with the Homo sapien? Your not hoping or guessing or having faith at all? You can PROVE this? Please do. And no fairy tale hypothesis please.

No, the trilobite is not a link between single celled organisms and fish. A trilobite is an Arthropod, and would be the ancestor to insects, arachnids and crustaceans and such. Their eyes are magnificent compound eyes, which is evidence that eyes developed before the Cambrian period. Trilobites are not the first species with developed eyes.

This would be an example of a transitional species that eventually led to fish.

If you want to go even further back, this is a good example.

Further back we're venturing into more wild territory, the pre-Cambrian, as fossils from this age are rare indeed. This could be the earlies bilateral fossils found, and could be the predecessors of invertebrates and vertebrates alike. Before then, multicellular life was mainly things such as sponges.

As you can see, the fossils we have found neatly connects all vital areas of evolution, from unicellular to multicellular, from radial to bilateral, from invertebrate to vertebrate, from pre-fishes to fishes, from amphibians to reptilians and mammals, from reptilians to birds and from mammals to apes and, eventually, humans.

Of course, you chose to disregard all this evidence in favor of a 3000 year old book written by men ignorant of how the universe works. That's ok. It's your loss.

 

[Meshach]

No, the trilobite is not a link between single celled organisms and fish. A trilobite is an Arthropod, and would be the ancestor to insects, arachnids and crustaceans and such. Their eyes are magnificent compound eyes, which is evidence that eyes developed before the Cambrian period. Trilobites are not the first species with developed eyes.

This would be an example of a transitional species that eventually led to fish.

If you want to go even further back, this is a good example.

Further back we're venturing into more wild territory, the pre-Cambrian, as fossils from this age are rare indeed. This could be the earlies bilateral fossils found, and could be the predecessors of invertebrates and vertebrates alike. Before then, multicellular life was mainly things such as sponges.

As you can see, the fossils we have found neatly connects all vital areas of evolution, from unicellular to multicellular, from radial to bilateral, from invertebrate to vertebrate, from pre-fishes to fishes, from amphibians to reptilians and mammals, from reptilians to birds and from mammals to apes and, eventually, humans.

Of course, you chose to disregard all this evidence in favor of a 3000 year old book written by men ignorant of how the universe works. That's ok. It's your loss.

You can live in your fairy tale land all you want, thats your choice, monkeys dont have that option.

 

[Thistlethorn]

You can live in your fairy tale land all you want, thats your choice,

You're in here with me, bud, whether you like it or not. You can't opt out of reality. You can only chose to remain ignorant. I note with not a little satisfaction that when the evidence starts to mount, you retreat back to single line posts with no content except a snarky remark.

monkeys dont have that option.

Do you believe that monkeys would attempt to opt out of reality as well if they had the option? If not, I can't see what thought you tried to put forth with that sentence piece, as it seems completely nonsensical.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

This keeps getting funnier. Hiccups, three tiny bones and now gill slits in human fetal development. You see and want gill slits because you need all the help you can get to pass your fairy tale on to others. Did they not stop calling them gill slits like a hundred years ago? They call them Pharyngeal "pouches" and they have absolutely nothing to do with breathing or resperation. No, not worm, reptile, fish or pig. The embryo is human right from the moment of conception. Haeckel can take a hike.And dont bother with the HOX genes, I have had enough laughs for now

Ever wonder why the recurrent pharyngeal nerve goes out of its way to get to where it needs to go? Ever wonder why male testes leave a weak spot during fetal development, making men prone to inguinal hernias?

Of course you have. It's because we used to be FISH. Evolution is fact. Get over it.

BTW, of course gill slits (pharyngeal pouches) have nothing to do with breathing... now. It's because I keep trying to make the point that we used to be fish. Not anymore silly.

Why do you think Jesus called his disciples to be "fishers of men"? Because he knew that... WE USED TO BE FISH!

ToE has explanatory power, and unifies all fields of science... perfectly.

Don't fight it. The sooner you accept it, the smarter you'll be. (You will just have to trust me on this one).

 

[juvenissun]

heavenly dogs

Good. Here is one link among many.