"UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. It's the Post Office that's always having proble

DieHappy

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The post office will not guarantee an overnight delivery from 25 miles west of chicago to a po box within the chicago city limits. I lost a lot of money trying to get an insurance claim in before the deadline, mailed on the 28th overnight and it had to be there by 5 pm on the 30th. Didn't make it, and that was overnight! UPS would have had it there by 10am the next day or it would have been free plus damages. Except UPS can't deliver to mail boxes or po boxes. Because the USPS can't take the competition. You guys trying to say that it's not an apples to apples comaprison are forgetting that the USPS used to be the only game going, but FedEx came along because they sucked so much. Now UPS and FedEx deliver all the big packages because they outcompeted. Obama knew what he was saying, he just shouldn't have said it. He wants the competition from private insurance to go away asap, so we'll all be stuck with government health care that looks just like the "failing" post office.

I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that's what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that's what I'd like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.
Breitbart.tv Obama in ‘03 (Uncut): I’d Like to See a ‘Single Payer Health Care Plan’
 
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jamesrwright3

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I agree completely. So why is it that government is inherently better than corporations?

Last time I asked that I got accountability as an answer but the fact of the matter is, just as government is accountable through the voting process, so are corporations accountable through competition. If you get screwed by one company, take your business elsewhere.

I really do not think the managers/bureaucrats have the same level of accountability as managers in a company. Sure, we have the public vote, but the bureaucrats are not subject to the vote. You have the same people in place regardless of the outcome of the election. They are entrenched bureaucrats and are used to doing things a certain way and do not really have an incentive to change.Their "guidelines" are formed by Congress, and Congress does not really get involved in the day to day management of these agencies They are not "rewarded" for running things better. They will still have their jobs if they mess up, and if they make a mistake, they can simply ask for more money in the budget next year. Congress does not shut down inefficient and wasteful agencies.

Managers in a private company are far more accountable. They have a duty to the shareholders (they can be sued if they breach that duty) and they cannot ask for more "money" if they make a mistake. They can go out of business. They have every incentive in the world to be meaner/leaner. The managers also have monetary incentives for making operations more efficient, something the government does not have.
 
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kermit

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DeathMagus

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You do know that the PO Box stands for Post Office right? If there were such a thing as UPS boxes do you think they'd allow the USPS or FedEx to use them? It's not a matter of competition, it's a matter of ownership.

Exactly - there are (in-center) boxes for UPS and FedEx, in fact, and all deliveries have to be through that organization.
 
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The post office will not guarantee an overnight delivery from 25 miles west of chicago to a po box within the chicago city limits.
I run a distribution center and we ship packages all day, everyday. There are many places in the US where Fedex does not guarantee overnight delivery.
 
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kermit

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I run a distribution center and we ship packages all day, everyday. There are many places in the US where Fedex does not guarantee overnight delivery.
I'm sure like the USPS is has to due with how close you are to one of their major distribution centers. In DieHappy's example it's very possible that the place 25 miles from goes to a local distribution office first then to a major distribution center. I have no doubt that you can overnight from Chicago to NYC as both cities are serviced by a major distribution center.

The USPS is very good maximizing overall deliver efficiency.

To you neighbor: I gets picked up and goes to the local PO. The local PO sorts is for local delivery and it is delivered

Across town: I gets picked up and goes to the local PO. The local PO sorts it as an in-town delivery and it gets sent to the local distribution office that sends to the correct local PO which then delivers it

Across the country: I gets picked up and goes to the local PO. The local PO sorts it as an out-of-town delivery and it gets sent to the local distribution office that sends to a major distribution center which sends to another local distribution office or major distribution center and then down the line to the delivery address.

Except for the local offices, which are required by law, this is the same set up as UPS, FedEx and every shipping handler.
 
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I'm sure like the USPS is has to due with how close you are to one of their major distribution centers. In DieHappy's example it's very possible that the place 25 miles from goes to a local distribution office first then to a major distribution center. I have no doubt that you can overnight from Chicago to NYC as both cities are serviced by a major distribution center.
Exactly. I posted that because I did not want people to think it was only USPS who cannot guarantee overnight delivery.
 
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Risen Tree

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I think it would be up to you to show us where government quickly addressed inefficiencies and waste. There would be too many examples to cite on my end. Even on a state level, you see very few "conservative" states with major budget issues. The most liberal states are the ones with the largest deficits.

No james, I don't play that game. You made the points, you need to defend them. You said, and I quote:

Regardless, the point stands..and I don't think Obama knew he was hurting his cause by the words he was using. The bottom line is there are no efficient government programs/agencies. All are slow to make changes and have no incentives to cut costs.. After all, the worst case scenario is they ask for more money from the taxpayers next year. All programs are hampered by the fact that there is always a political angle in terms of how they are managed. Government workers are members of unions which I find to be ridiculous because they work for the people to begin with.

I need to see some non-biased evidence for these claims before I will accept them.

The post office will not guarantee an overnight delivery from 25 miles west of chicago to a po box within the chicago city limits. I lost a lot of money trying to get an insurance claim in before the deadline, mailed on the 28th overnight and it had to be there by 5 pm on the 30th. Didn't make it, and that was overnight!

Sorry to hear that, chief.

I'd love to find some stats on the reliability of all the major parcel carriers, including the USPS, on rapid delivery. I'm sure some businesses have to keep tabs on that kind of info, so that they can conduct cost-benefit analyses of the most nearly optimal method for sending packages.

UPS would have had it there by 10am the next day or it would have been free plus damages. Except UPS can't deliver to mail boxes or po boxes. Because the USPS can't take the competition. You guys trying to say that it's not an apples to apples comaprison are forgetting that the USPS used to be the only game going, but FedEx came along because they sucked so much. Now UPS and FedEx deliver all the big packages because they outcompeted. Obama knew what he was saying, he just shouldn't have said it. He wants the competition from private insurance to go away asap, so we'll all be stuck with government health care that looks just like the "failing" post office.

Breitbart.tv Obama in ‘03 (Uncut): I’d Like to See a ‘Single Payer Health Care Plan’

Wrong.

I really do not think the managers/bureaucrats have the same level of accountability as managers in a company. Sure, we have the public vote, but the bureaucrats are not subject to the vote. You have the same people in place regardless of the outcome of the election. They are entrenched bureaucrats and are used to doing things a certain way and do not really have an incentive to change.Their "guidelines" are formed by Congress, and Congress does not really get involved in the day to day management of these agencies They are not "rewarded" for running things better. They will still have their jobs if they mess up, and if they make a mistake, they can simply ask for more money in the budget next year. Congress does not shut down inefficient and wasteful agencies.

So if an organization has some alleged efficiency problems, shut the whole thing down and screw over those who rely on its services?

Managers in a private company are far more accountable. They have a duty to the shareholders (they can be sued if they breach that duty) and they cannot ask for more "money" if they make a mistake. They can go out of business. They have every incentive in the world to be meaner/leaner. The managers also have monetary incentives for making operations more efficient, something the government does not have.

1. What is the goal of a shareholder?

2. How much accountability do non-shareholders have over a corporation?
 
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kermit

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I think it would be up to you to show us where government quickly addressed inefficiencies and waste. There would be too many examples to cite on my end. Even on a state level, you see very few "conservative" states with major budget issues. The most liberal states are the ones with the largest deficits.
James, that's because conservative states rely upon federal money to balance their budgets.

Funny how wealth redistribution is OK when conservatives are the ones getting the money.
 
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Risen Tree

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James, that's because conservative states rely upon federal money to balance their budgets.

Funny how wealth redistribution is OK when conservatives are the ones getting the money.

Hmm...this gives me an idea for a new thread...
 
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kermit

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Not true. The bloated public sectors and prohibitive tax rates are the primary drivers of those deficits.
It's absolutely true. A large percentage of red state budgets are paid for indirectly with federal money. What I mean is that many of the line items on blue states are paid for by the federal guvmint in Red states. The fact is that most Red states are welfare queens taking in far more tax money than they contribute. Which is why so called fiscal conservatives will never try to shut of the spicket.
 
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jamesrwright3

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It's absolutely true. A large percentage of red state budgets are paid for indirectly with federal money. What I mean is that many of the line items on blue states are paid for by the federal guvmint in Red states. The fact is that most Red states are welfare queens taking in far more tax money than they contribute. Which is why so called fiscal conservatives will never try to shut of the spicket.

Simply not true. Evidence?
 
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lemmings

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Simply not true. Evidence?

These are the states with above the median income for families, higher income earners pay more in taxes and as one poster on this forum loves pointing out, the bottom 50% income wise get nearly all of their money back in rebates.
redblueincome.gif


The data that the next graphic is based in comes from here.
The Tax Foundation - Federal Taxing and Spending Benefit Some States, Leave Others Paying Bill
2994934040_ca5b05d221.jpg
 
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DieHappy

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I'm sure like the USPS is has to due with how close you are to one of their major distribution centers. In DieHappy's example it's very possible that the place 25 miles from goes to a local distribution office first then to a major distribution center. I have no doubt that you can overnight from Chicago to NYC as both cities are serviced by a major distribution center.

The USPS is very good maximizing overall deliver efficiency.

You're kidding, right? From the suburbs to one of the biggest post offices in the country?

Try to mail an overnight letter from chicago to NY. It might get there on time, but they will not guarantee it.

You watched the video, didn't you? You trust factcheck over what he actually said 6 years ago?
 
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kermit

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You're kidding, right? From the suburbs to one of the biggest post offices in the country?
What time were you mailing the letter? After a certain time (I think 4pm) they consider it the next business day which means that overnight is the day after next.

Try to mail an overnight letter from chicago to NY. It might get there on time, but they will not guarantee it.
Depending upon what time you send it yes it will.
 
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Risen Tree

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You watched the video, didn't you? You trust factcheck over what he actually said 6 years ago?

Careful, you're shifting the goalposts. Are you assuming that factcheck.org is wrong? Besides, I am well aware that Obama supports the single-payer system. But to say this:

DieHappy said:
[Obama] wants the competition from private insurance to go away asap, so we'll all be stuck with government health care that looks just like the "failing" post office.

is simply false, and you know it. And it is this habit of spreading false information, which I am witnessing conservatives do time after time on health care, that makes me wonder what on earth motivates them to do such a thing. :(
 
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jamesrwright3

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That is not evidence that those states are patching potential deficits with federal dollars. The fact is the most liberal states i.e. New York and California with bloated public sectors are the states most in trouble in terms of their state budgets. You would need to provide evidence from the budgets of those states you are trying to say get the holes plugged with federal dollars and show what the deficit would be without those dollars.
 
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HerbieHeadley

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I’m glad everyone loves their USPS “monopoly” service. Some even love the service enough to exacerbate the speediness of regular first class mail.

However, USPS is 7 million in debt and the comparison of USPS and ObamaCare was exactly what is wrong with setting up a “service of the people” that goes in debt, more and more, with pensions and mis-management that can never find a fix.

I think we need to get Government out of the business of running things the private sector can run more efficiently.
 
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