Worldview...Everyone Has One

[jpcedotal]

Those are the restrictions: cause no harm to others.

I'm not saying that this is in any way possible. People are horrible creatures and we'll never have a unified society. I'm just saying, in order to live peacefully, we must strive to do no harm.

So mankind is just spiraling to self-destruction. We have the natural ability to stop this, but not the ...initiative?,know-how?,desire?what?

Isn't man's deepest desire to be king ruler over all, to be the one everyone seeks for knowledge or understanding or sex or touchdowns or money or freedom or ....?

"I think therefore I am" In order to find one's true self, one must doubt everything except that he/she can think. Isn't this the basis of everything secular?

 

[quatona]

There are three questions that have a great deal in forming one's core beliefs.

Without even looking at them I´ll go out on a limb and posit that the assumption that these questions are meaningful and can/need to be answered is already the product of the core beliefs of the person asking.

1. Where did we come from?

Define "we" in the way you use it in this question.
Who says "we" (whatever that means here) have to "come from" somewhere?
Try to be more precise in your questions.

1. What went wrong?

Something with the formatting of the quotes. This should be "2.", but the computer changed it into "1."

1. How do we fix it?

I can´t seem to manage it.

 

[Danhalen]

There are three questions that have a great deal in forming one's core beliefs.

1. Where did we come from?
2. What went wrong?
3. How do we fix it?

Answer them on here if you want, but also think about what or who helped form your worldview.

Actually, I think my core beliefs help inform my response to your first question. Your second question seems nonsensical to me; what went wrong with what? If I were to guess at your meaning, I would assume that you mean something went wrong with humankind. If that's the case, I don't think anything has gone wrong. Since I don't think anything is wrong with humankind I see no point in fixing it.

 

[Penumbra]

There are three questions that have a great deal in forming one's core beliefs.

1. Where did we come from?
2. What went wrong?
3. How do we fix it?

Answer them on here if you want, but also think about what or who helped form your worldview.

I think that you're assuming that the three questions you have are what everyone shares, but as the responses in this thread have shown, this is not the case.

Specifically for number 2, "What went wrong." assumes something was right in the first place, or that there is purpose, or there is something we can measure ourselves against. This idea of something going wrong is present in Christianity but few other worldviews.

Ever since the beginning of life on this planet, it has been about competition, strength, life, and death. The earliest microbes lived and died, the earliest predators killed prey, and so forth, all before humans ever got here.

The "What went wrong" question is from the point that if humans are born with a clean slate, where does the corruption come from?

In a more worldly view, if people are born blank, what causes the hate, the prejudices, the wars...

We are not born with a clean slate. We are born with instincts for survival that vary from individual to individual. Some animals have hate and prejudice as well, killing members of other groups. Animals have wars and battles too, where one lion will fight another lion for dominance, or how one buffalo will challenge the largest buffalo for the right to breed with the females.

So in order for something to have gone "wrong", there needs to be a time when it was better. This is not the case for our planet.

-Lyn

 

[The Nihilist]

I think that once you're willing to let go of morality in any kind of absolute sense and let go of the framework that goes with it, two thirds of those questions become significantly less pressing.

Where I came from? My great grandparents came from Europe, and I know nothing before that.

 

[Eudaimonist]

That's being intentionally obtuse.

I don't like to make assumptions about the questions I answer. You do know what happens when people assume things, right?

Of course I can make a guess about what the author meant by his questions, but I'd rather have him clarify for the sake of the discussion.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[exotic walrus]

Maybe so....So mankind is working toward some new peaceful world of enlightenment...a step forward. Does evolution ever go backwards? The world seems to be getting worse, not better...or is that just my personal point of view?

The world is a much more civilised place in many ways than it was 50 or 100 years ago. The problem is that there is still plenty of bad stuff too.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Isn't man's deepest desire to be king ruler over all, to be the one everyone seeks for knowledge or understanding or sex or touchdowns or money or freedom or ....?

My deepest desire is to live in a world in which every individual is a source of some creative value. Not "king rulers", but talented and wise people.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[quatona]

Isn't man's deepest desire to be king ruler over all, to be the one everyone seeks for knowledge or understanding or sex or touchdowns or money or freedom or ....?

If you tell me that that´s your deepest desire I´ll take your word for it. I would appreciate it if you took my word that this is not at all my deepest desire, in return.

 

[jpcedotal]

I am trying to be as objective as I can and discuss the secular side of mankind. Why get so defensive and condescending. Even though I am a very conservative Christian, I can have a respectable debate....can any of yall?

 

[jpcedotal]

Here is what I see from the answers. Everyone, Christian and otherwise, think being an individual is the most important aspect of life at all times. Anytime, someone makes the claim that the individual is NOT really much different than anyone else, the defensive side lashes back.

My three questions deal with your core beliefs of the following:

1: origin of man (I do not want to argue evolution, the science)
2: reasons for the evil or hate crimes and thoughts in the world
3: what needs to be done so everyone can live peaceably.

I am not trying to catch anyone, so just chill out and let's have a discussion so I can learn what makes the atheist and other secular mind frames tick.

I mean, even atheist have morality, right?

 

[jpcedotal]

If you tell me that that´s your deepest desire I´ll take your word for it. I would appreciate it if you took my word that this is not at all my deepest desire, in return.

Well what is it then, if you do not mind me asking...

 

[jpcedotal]

Without even looking at them I´ll go out on a limb and posit that the assumption that these questions are meaningful and can/need to be answered is already the product of the core beliefs of the person asking.
[/list]
Define "we" in the way you use it in this question.
Who says "we" (whatever that means here) have to "come from" somewhere?
Try to be more precise in your questions.
[/list]
Something with the formatting of the quotes. This should be "2.", but the computer changed it into "1."
[/list]
I can´t seem to manage it.

"We" would be mankind, aliens (from other planets) excluded.

Are u saying we have always been, that there is no origin of man?

 

[jpcedotal]

Actually, I think my core beliefs help inform my response to your first question. Your second question seems nonsensical to me; what went wrong with what? If I were to guess at your meaning, I would assume that you mean something went wrong with humankind. If that's the case, I don't think anything has gone wrong. Since I don't think anything is wrong with humankind I see no point in fixing it.

Thank you for your honest response. Mankind just is. That sure takes the morality out of it, for sure.

 

[quatona]

I am trying to be as objective as I can and discuss the secular side of mankind. Why get so defensive and condescending. Even though I am a very conservative Christian, I can have a respectable debate....can any of yall?

Please point out where exactly you perceive defensiveness and condescension.

 

[jpcedotal]

I think that you're assuming that the three questions you have are what everyone shares, but as the responses in this thread have shown, this is not the case.

I think the response deal more with me being a conservative Christian than the actual questions....that's why the defensive answers.

Specifically for number 2, "What went wrong." assumes something was right in the first place, or that there is purpose, or there is something we can measure ourselves against. This idea of something going wrong is present in Christianity but few other worldviews.

I disagree. There are only a handful of worldviews that think mankind is all right as is. The rest teach of the evil of man and what needs to be done to cleanse it.

Ever since the beginning of life on this planet, it has been about competition, strength, life, and death. The earliest microbes lived and died, the earliest predators killed prey, and so forth, all before humans ever got here.

Competition, strength, life and death are the some of the major factors throughout life, I agree, but many wars and fueds wer also fought for love, hate, prejudice...which are not animal characteristics.

We are not born with a clean slate. We are born with instincts for survival that vary from individual to individual. Some animals have hate and prejudice as well, killing members of other groups. Animals have wars and battles too, where one lion will fight another lion for dominance, or how one buffalo will challenge the largest buffalo for the right to breed with the females.

I think maybe that is where I am confused with atheism. I do not understand what the individual already has working for/against him at birth according to that worldview. There is no hate within the animal kingdom, that is a purly human trait.

So in order for something to have gone "wrong", there needs to be a time when it was better. This is not the case for our planet.

So what drives you to do anything, if everything is based off of genetics and strength?

-Lyn

Animals do not know right and wrong, but humans do. Where did this come from....society?speech? Is it just a learned trait, like rubbing a dog's nose in its own urine after a carpet accident?

 

[quatona]

Well what is it then, if you do not mind me asking...

For purposes of this discussion it is sufficient to note that your general statement does not apply to me. Everything beyond that would lead off-topic.
Anyway, I don´t think I have such a thing as a "deepest desire". My respective desires depend on context and situation. A recurring desire, however, is to have inspiring and respectful interaction with the people around me.

 

[jpcedotal]

I think that once you're willing to let go of morality in any kind of absolute sense and let go of the framework that goes with it, two thirds of those questions become significantly less pressing.

Where I came from? My great grandparents came from Europe, and I know nothing before that.

Atheist have no sense of morality? Why not just take what you want then, kill those who stand in your way? What stops you....simple consequences for your actions (like jail time?)

 

[jpcedotal]

I don't like to make assumptions about the questions I answer. You do know what happens when people assume things, right?

Of course I can make a guess about what the author meant by his questions, but I'd rather have him clarify for the sake of the discussion.


eudaimonia,

Mark

I apologize. That was out of line.

 

[quatona]

"We" would be mankind, aliens (from other planets) excluded.

Thanks for clarifying.
I think evolution theory gives the currently best explanation available.

Are u saying we have always been, that there is no origin of man?

No, I am not making any such claim. Science pretty much refutes the idea that man has always been around.
Now that you have specified your question I could answer it better.