avoiding kissing and holding hands altogether...

[GQ Chris]

I discovered the wisdom behind not kissing or holding hands when dating...

 

[SonicBOOM]

different strokes for different folks.... keep that in mind as we proceed

 

[.Mikha'el.]

I discovered the wisdom behind not kissing or holding hands when dating...

 

[smacarena]

It just makes me wonder what kinds of surprises lie for the wedding night. Not that I'm saying that total abstinence of affection is inherently bad.

 

[SonicBOOM]

It just makes me wonder what kinds of surprises lie for the wedding night. Not that I'm saying that total abstinence of affection is inherently bad.

this is my main reason why I disagree with total abstinence of anything physical.... you can't go from 0-100 in one night.... it is not healthy and it is gonna be incredibly terrifying.

 

[smacarena]

It'll make things interesting.

 

[toastface_grillah]

I discovered the wisdom behind not kissing or holding hands when dating...

Care to elaborate? You've got us in suspense.

 

[JonMiller]

I think that for people who are use to physical intimacy, that that might be the best choice.

Possibly even for those who aren't use to it.

We don't really need temptations. If you feel those emotions why not get engaged?

JM
(I guess I would have a hard time not kissing/holding hands while engaged.)
(I would want to kiss/hold hands while just dating (not casually). I just can see the wisdom in not doing so.)

 

[SonicBOOM]

each couple should pray about it to God. though it's not like physical abstinence is the wise choice all the time while physical engagement is always the foolish choice all the time. Lets say you plan on marrying the person your dating..... ok your dating and you've never so much as made contact with the opposite sex, no kissing, holding hands, ect. You continue this until you get married. You take your first kiss at the alter..... and than you go back to the hotel room that night and get naked together and have sex.....


now that is a HUGE jump and I would personally advice against it. Not for the sake of pleasure but for the sake of the sudden shock you will get. What is likely to happen is the husband and wife will get very scared and insecure.... they will defently feel overwhelmed and think of it as such a massive leap.... which it is.

What is likely to happen here is problems in the bedroom.

The best advice I can give is to take things slow.... but to not stay motionless..... start by holding hands, than move to cuddling, and than move to something a little further along. that way when you get married it's not such a big leap and it doesn't give you such a huge shock. You have already jumped a bit in the water.... but you haven't went to the deep end.


You can't expect someone who has never touched water before to be completely confortable with jumping off the high dive..... this is just common sense people.

 

[Irascible]

It's pretty safe to assume he doesn't mean complete physical abstinence until the honeymoon. Take away the all or nothing fallacy and it's the only way to date IMO. Spend a few to a few dozen outings together platonically and you'll get to know their brains a lot quicker. If it’s a bad match your mind will have clarity to see it.

Play tonsil hockey on the second date and lust will cloud the mind. Even holding hands can cloud the mind.

 

[timbo81]

now that is a HUGE jump and I would personally advice against it. Not for the sake of pleasure but for the sake of the sudden shock you will get. What is likely to happen is the husband and wife will get very scared and insecure.... they will defently feel overwhelmed and think of it as such a massive leap.... which it is.

why advise against it?

there is nothing wrong with a couple wanting to abstain from touch if they so desire. Many cultures with arranged marriages still have no type of courtship period, the bride and groom see each other for the first time on the day.

are they going to die or something on their wedding night from the shock? I don't even see how holding hands or hugging could prepare anyone for sex either

Lord knows we could do with an alternate style of approach to dating besides the secular "sex by at least the third date" rule.

even a kissing make out can session can very easily lead to sex so if christians don't want to temp themselves and abstain from that I say that is admirable

 

[Irascible]

You take your first kiss at the alter..... and than you go back to the hotel room that night and get naked together and have sex..... What is likely to happen is the husband and wife will get very scared and insecure....

That scenario is of course extraordinarily rare. However, if it were to play out with two mature God fearing adults then they'd have some of the most incredible sex that night and for a long time to come.

The closer a couple courts and marries on God's terms, the better the sex will be. That hypothetical scenario, virtually nonexistent in this culture, is waaay closer to God's standard than the typical western Christian courtship: French kissing and heavy petting are a virtual given. Outright sex isn't as much a given, but most Christian couples do indulge before marriage. The defacto Christian standard is barely better than the world's.

The hypothetical standard you write of would please God greatly. That couple would be rewarded. Any fear they might have at first would quickly succumb to something a lot better.

 

[SonicBOOM]

why advise against it?

there is nothing wrong with a couple wanting to abstain from touch if they so desire. Many cultures with arranged marriages still have no type of courtship period, the bride and groom see each other for the first time on the day.

those marriages..... keep in mind..... have a foundation on a contract.... they HAVE to do it..... just because a couple is forced to stay together doesn't make the marriage a success..... is the marriege brimming with life? Or is it a pile of dead bones?

are they going to die or something on their wedding night from the shock? I don't even see how holding hands or hugging could prepare anyone for sex either

it can't "prepare" anyone so to speak.... but it will make the couple a little more comfortable in their own skin about it.

Lord knows we could do with an alternate style of approach to dating besides the secular "sex by at least the third date" rule.

this I agree with.... however you can't fix one extreme with another.... 0 physical contact is not necesarly the answer because it's an idealists dream to say that it will prevent lust. I will say it will probably create lust as your false notions and preconceived ideals about the person grow and fester.

even a kissing make out can session can very easily lead to sex so if christians don't want to temp themselves and abstain from that I say that is admirable

I can't beleive you would even suggest this.... are we really so lustful that we can not even sit next to the opposite sex without acting like animals? The world isn't even this bad.... I have a little more faith in God's people than this.

That scenario is of course extraordinarily rare. However, if it were to play out with two mature God fearing adults then they'd have some of the most incredible sex that night and for a long time to come.

this is a fool's ideal..... if anything the couple will be fearful of their own imperfections and surprised by their partner's. What happens if someone farts in the bedroom? What about the bad wart right under the thigh? Man.... thats quite the awful skinrash...... ect ect.

Why do I say this? because I beleive the 0 physical contact can easily paint the person as a god or goddess in the bedroom..... they are "perfect" in a sense

The closer a couple courts and marries on God's terms, the better the sex will be. That hypothetical scenario, virtually nonexistent in this culture, is waaay closer to God's standard than the typical western Christian courtship: French kissing and heavy petting are a virtual given. Outright sex isn't as much a given, but most Christian couples do indulge before marriage. The defacto Christian standard is barely better than the world's.

please do not claim the bible teaches this.... it does not. The bible teaches no sex before marrege and pretty much leaves it at that..... everything is in a sense added on.

The hypothetical standard you write of would please God greatly.

no more than a couple who lives for God and waits to have sex before marrege, but finds it ok to kiss, cuddle ect.... right?

That couple would be rewarded. Any fear they might have at first would quickly succumb to something a lot better.

again a fool's ideal and I wouldn't place my bets on a reward that I beleive God is obligated to give me. I stay pure to protect myself and my potentail partner.... not to somehow fullfill my contract and obligate God to bless my marriege.

 

[Sketcher]

there is nothing wrong with a couple wanting to abstain from touch if they so desire. Many cultures with arranged marriages still have no type of courtship period, the bride and groom see each other for the first time on the day.

And no touching at all is much easier in the cultures where they actually have the arranged marriages as opposed to ours where we are expected to date first.

 

[timbo81]

I can't beleive you would even suggest this.... are we really so lustful that we can not even sit next to the opposite sex without acting like animals? The world isn't even this bad.... I have a little more faith in God's people than this.

but how many christian dating couples have fallen victim to pre-marital sex though thinking they were strong enough to resist.

it all started with holding hands at one point, then it moves on to kissing, etc. the bar keeps getting pushed.

everyone says it won't happen to them.

We use to have chaperones, until it became unfashionable. I can't help but think it was a good idea. Instead parents let their 16/17 year old children out on a date alone and expect them to somehow act mature in relation to their physical boundaries.

I don't think christians should date till at least 21

 

[Irascible]

this is a fool's ideal..... if anything the couple will be fearful of their own imperfections and surprised by their partner's. What happens if someone farts in the bedroom? What about the bad wart right under the thigh? Man.... thats quite the awful skin rash

I did say mature adults. Farting? Warts? Oh no! The deal's off!

What you describe sounds like a couple of teenagers who took off to Vegas.

I’ve had the privilege of an absolutely incredible relationship. She didn’t care one wit about my physical imperfections. I didn’t care when she farted. That’s not to say I let myself go or that she let them rip whenever she pleased. That is to say our love found its power in what was held behind the eyes and within the heart. Off scents and physical imperfections didn't stand a chance.

Call it a fool's ideal if you wish. I don't promote it as a realistic one. I’ve come no where close to it. But in principle at least I gladly call myself the fool.

For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight.
1 Corinthians

 

[SonicBOOM]

I did say mature adults. Farting? Warts? Oh no! The deal's off!

What you describe sounds like a couple of teenagers who took off to Vegas.

I’ve had the privilege of an absolutely incredible relationship. She didn’t care one wit about my physical imperfections. I didn’t care when she farted. That’s not to say I let myself go or that she let them rip whenever she pleased. That is to say our love found its power in what was held behind the eyes and within the heart. Off scents and physical imperfections didn't stand a chance.

Call it a fool's ideal if you wish. I don't promote it as a realistic one. I’ve come no where close to it. But in principle at least I gladly call myself the fool.

For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight.
1 Corinthians

haha I'm not against someone desiring to do this sorry if I came off this way.... I just don't think it should be a catch all for everyone.


So I will go back to my first sentence that was really my foundation..... a couple should pray. If a couple prays and feels at peace with physical contact that doesn't lead to sex. And they get married and have an amazing marriage. would this satisfy you?

 

[Irascible]

If a couple prays and feels at peace with physical contact that doesn't lead to sex. would this satisfy you?

Almost as much as a fat slice of New York style cheesecake with cherries on top.

 

[SonicBOOM]

Almost as much as a fat slice of New York style cheesecake with cherries on top.

haha yummers I love cheesecake

 

[SonicBOOM]

but how many christian dating couples have fallen victim to pre-marital sex though thinking they were strong enough to resist.

it all started with holding hands at one point, then it moves on to kissing, etc. the bar keeps getting pushed.

everyone says it won't happen to them.

We use to have chaperones, until it became unfashionable. I can't help but think it was a good idea. Instead parents let their 16/17 year old children out on a date alone and expect them to somehow act mature in relation to their physical boundaries.

I don't think christians should date till at least 21

we are talking about adults here right Tim? This argument is justified for inflamed, hormonal teenagers.... but for adults this is just ridiculous. If you can't trust a christian man or woman to not moo and kick their hign legs and jump on top of the first member of the opposite sex they see.... than there is just no hope for God's people.... like I said the world isn't even this bad and I have seen people have attitudes like this before and it is usually based off of the idea of how out of control our sexuality is. When I was in bible college our college had a rule where you were not allowed to dance because they were fearful that dancing would turn people on and people would start having sex. You were fined 5 bucks everytime you were caught dancing. I am NOT kidding

What did the students do? They brushed it off, laughed about it, and continued to hang out and casually befriend their brothers and sisters.... and if they were dating they were cuddling, they went off alone at times..... and they didn't have sex! Go figure.....

the idea that our sexuality is so out of control is absurd.....