Hebrews 6:4-6

[JohnDB]

But...then why does Paul say that some have "shipwrecked" their faith?

hopelessly lost and out of action and commission.
And that doesn't answer the Gnostics...whose faith was based initially on the teachings of the Apostles.

I don't feel spanked and I don't know your answers to these questions.
Were those that "shipwrecked their faith" never saved to begin with?
or are they that "sprang up quickly but withered in the sun"?

and the Gnostics...were they ever saved too?

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Were the Gnostics saved? I compare them to modern day mormons on how off they are theologically...but I can't say whether they are saved or not...I am not God.
As a selfish human I'd say NO WAY are they saved, nor were they ever saved!!!
I honestly cannot claim to know who is or who isn't saved based on anything, I can assume things based on theology...but in the end? I will not make claim to know anyone's salvation.

Thanks for listening.

 

[the particular baptist]

I would compare the gnostics to modern day pentecostalism.

 

[Jerrell]

When I think of gnostics I think of a secretive society of religous folk, let's keep in mind that many of them lived in Egypt and surronding areas.

 

[TimRout]

I would compare the gnostics to modern day pentecostalism.

Wow TFS! Strong words. Would you care to refine that statement?

 

[DeaconDean]

I would compare the gnostics to modern day pentecostalism.

You know what, I have an ex-brother-in-law whom I consider as still part of my family even though he is divorced from my sister.

He was raised Pentecostal, a member of Yorkwood Church of God, and if you would talk with him, you'd be supprised just how much of Baptist doctrine he agrees with. He and I even went to Baptist seminary classes together.

I cannot believe that these marks of Gnosticism are present on Pentecostals:

• Dualism: The true and “good” God differs from the “evil” Creator God in Genesis.
• Cosmogony: The physical material world is evil. Light, soul, spirit, and knowledge are good.
• Salvation: Salvation and redemption are experienced only by knowledge. The flesh (the physical) is not redeemable. Hence, there is no resurrection of the body from the dead.
• Eschatology: Understanding where existence is heading, namely, the redemption of the soul and recovery of creation into the “fullness,” being where good dwells (separated from the evil physical world of matter and flesh).
• Cult and community: The worship, sacraments, and the people who nurtured such views.

What is the definition of Gnostic Christianity? A few of today’s liberal scholars – referred to by some as The New School – claim that at the time of the birth of the Christian faith, modern-day Christianity was not the only interpretation of Jesus’ teachings. They assert that alternatives such as the gnostic interpretations (“Gnostic Christianity&#8221 were also considered. After the struggle of the various concepts for supremacy, the view of “Traditional Christianity” “won” and other early forms of Christianity were suppressed, reformed, or even forgotten. Recent finds, they claim, of new gospels bring these alternative views to light. Many promote a “make-over” of traditional beliefs, as a liberation from current Christianity; said by some to be an old, tiresome, constraining, and narrow faith.


As we have seen, the early church actively fought gnostic claims and influences. However, anti-gnostic statements are found only in the book of 1 John, likely one of the last books, written near the end of the first century. If Gnosticism had been a major concern to the apostles, we would expect many more anti-gnostic statements in the Bible books. Therefore it logically follows that gnostic influences started to interfere with the Christian faith about 50-60 years after the birth of Christianity. This implies that:

· “Traditional Christianity” and “Gnostic Christianity” did not develop in parallel. Traditional Christianity was well established, all (except for very few) books of the NT had been written well before gnostic concepts began to influence the faith. Therefore, Gnostic Christianity is not an alternative interpretation of the teachings of Christ that could be considered in any way on par with Biblical Christian theology. No, it is a cult, claiming additional revelation to justify its changes to the original faith.

· Gnostic Christian “gospels” therefore could not have been written before the end of the first century because Gnostic Christianity did not exist earlier. Our discussion of the various “gospels” and the evidence for their authenticity should verify this conclusion.

Source

I'm sorry, but I just cannot accept your description of Pentecostals as being lumped in with Gnosticism.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[the particular baptist]

I would compare the gnostics to modern day pentecostalism.

Wow TFS! Strong words. Would you care to refine that statement?

I'm sorry, but I just cannot accept your description of Pentecostals as being lumped in with Gnosticism.

Id like to qualify my original statement.

I would compare some aspects of gnosticism and montanism to modern day pentecostaslism and third wave/latter rain/open heaven movements.

Firstly, in no way am i generalizing pentecostalism to include my brothers at Sovereign Grace churches and Alliance churches. Sovereign Grace charismatics are reformed in soteriology as well as some Alliance churches.
I am speaking of classic pentecostalism and the third wave+ movements after it.

Here is my comparison.

Gnosticism taught that one can have/receive/obtain "gnosis" or knowledge others cant, and directly influenced Montanus and his teaching that montanists prophecies and "gnosis" superceded/replaced/re-interpreted the teaching and writing of the Apostles.

Pentecostalism>Third Wave/ Latter Rain/ Open Heaven teach this form of "gnosis" as well. The only way one can have this knowledge is not from the scriptures, but from the person claiming to have this revelation. This revelation supercedes/replaces/re-interprets the clear teaching of the Scriptures. It is Scriptures AND "knowledge"/prophecies





Sola Scriptura

 

[JohnDB]

What I do know of Charismatic type congregations is that a single christian male will find out the exact reason the ladies there do wear skirts/dresses.

 

[TimRout]

What I do know of Charismatic type congregations is that a single christian male will find out the exact reason the ladies there do wear skirts/dresses.

I'm not sure I follow....