Christian Flaws

[Jerrell]

To get started, I am Baptist and I do not doubt God and his word I merely want to discuss some things. To start off how do you all feel about Homosexual Pastors and Ministers of music in the Church? Do you feel that they should be kicked out of the church? Do you think it is alright to be that way? How do you feel about it? I would appreciate it if you could use scripture to back up your position, I am interested in how people view things.

God Bless

 

[Allen1901]

I could care less what two adults do in the privacy of their own home.
Jesus never mentioned it either.

God Bless!

 

[TimRout]

Hey Jerrell. Interesting question. Why do you ask? I'm sure you know, with the number of years you've belonged to CF, that conservative evangelicals do not permit practicing homosexuals to participate in ministry...with good biblical reason. Are you thinking of the person who struggles with homosexual feelings, but does not act on them?

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Are we talking about a celibate homosexual? Just curious.

thanks.

 

[Jerrell]

Hey Jerrell. Interesting question. Why do you ask? I'm sure you know, with the number of years you've belonged to CF, that conservative evangelicals do not permit practicing homosexuals to participate in ministry...with good biblical reason. Are you thinking of the person who struggles with homosexual feelings, but does not act on them?

Although Conservative Evangelicals do not permit homosexuals to participate in ministry I am witness to the fact that this is not always true. There are many homosexuals pastors, I know some of them, and not only that but there are openly homosexual ministers of music leading worship in Church. Now perhaps this is because I am referring to a majority black baptist church but I am very sure that this is not limited to just Black Baptist Churches. But let's not limit it to just homosexuals because there is a growing problem of bisexuality in the Church.

But no, I am strictly referring to people who struggle with homosexual feelings but dont act on them. But that is another good topic to discuss.

 

[Jerrell]

I could care less what two adults do in the privacy of their own home.
Jesus never mentioned it either.

God Bless!

Jesus did mention fornication, and from the greek origin we understand that to be Sexual immorality which includes homosexuality. But my point is to bring up Christian Flaws, because there are many Secretly if not open Homosexual Pastors and Ministers of Music, not only that but members of many Christian churches. I've heard many young people say that they dont go to Church because people in the Church are doing the same if not more of what people in the World are doing. This is a problem and it is a flaw in Christiandome that we get to the point of allowing this to continue to grow.

 

[Jerrell]

Are we talking about a celibate homosexual? Just curious.

thanks.

Interesting. Do you think it is impossible for a Homosexual to become free of homosexual desires? Do they really remain homosexual but take on a celibacy? Can that really count as being "changed"? Or is it just "denying yourself"?

 

[missjasmine]

I could care less what two adults do in the privacy of their own home.
Jesus never mentioned it either.

God Bless!

Maybe you should dig into your Bible a bit deeper.

Man is not to lay with man as he lays with woman.

Not to mention, sodomy is mentioned as a sin in the Bible.

Homosexuals have no business leading anything in a church. How can someone be a minister, claim to understand and read the Bible, and then outright sin.

And I also believe that anyone who is openly homosexual is not called by God to do any sort of work within the church, period.

I don't believe the Lord would call a gay man to preach or a lesbian woman to teach.

 

[bliz]

I think it's fair to assume that unmarried hetrosexual candites for ministry experience sexual temptation. We do not bar them from ministry. Why would it be any different for a homosexual person who resists temptation?

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Interesting. Do you think it is impossible for a Homosexual to become free of homosexual desires? Do they really remain homosexual but take on a celibacy? Can that really count as being "changed"? Or is it just "denying yourself"?

I do believe that homosexuals remain as they are even if they choose celibacy. Just as heterosexuals. So the answer to your first question is yes.
Now I do know a LOT of churches may be using a loophole in a lot of statements of faith that they have concerning this...and that is why I asked.
A lot of these local church "covenants" condemn homosexuality, yet just state that practicing homosexuals cannot be ordained.

Interesting topic nonetheless.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Maybe you should dig into your Bible a bit deeper.

Man is not to lay with man as he lays with woman.

Not to mention, sodomy is mentioned as a sin in the Bible.

Homosexuals have no business leading anything in a church. How can someone be a minister, claim to understand and read the Bible, and then outright sin.

And I also believe that anyone who is openly homosexual is not called by God to do any sort of work within the church, period.

I don't believe the Lord would call a gay man to preach or a lesbian woman to teach.

Even if they've NEVER acted on their homosexual desires?
Just curious.
I know what the bible states so don't get all fundamentalist on me. This is just for the fellowship of discussion.

 

[Allen1901]

Maybe you should dig into your Bible a bit deeper.

Man is not to lay with man as he lays with woman.

Not to mention, sodomy is mentioned as a sin in the Bible.

Homosexuals have no business leading anything in a church. How can someone be a minister, claim to understand and read the Bible, and then outright sin.

And I also believe that anyone who is openly homosexual is not called by God to do any sort of work within the church, period.

I don't believe the Lord would call a gay man to preach or a lesbian woman to teach.

Digging a little deeper into the Bible is always good advice.
I was digging pretty deep into Matt. 7:1 just a while ago.

God Bless!

 

[missjasmine]

Digging a little deeper into the Bible is always good advice.
I was digging pretty deep into Matt. 7:1 just a while ago.

God Bless!

Judge not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1

Cute response, however.... I started reading in and found these:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10:
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


AND THIS:
Romans 1:26-27:

26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.


I'm not judging, I'm looking at the instructions laid out to me in the Bible by my Father..... I'm not judging their souls, I'm saying they have no business holding any sort of position in a church if they are homosexuals.

I also noticed someone asked me what I thought about those who had homosexual thoughts at one point in their life and never acted on them.... I think that as long as they are have made it right with the Lord for their thoughts, then there is nothing wrong with it. Thinking and acting upon are two different things you know?

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

I'm not judging their souls, I'm saying they have no business holding any sort of position in a church if they are homosexuals.

You are judging them on the basis of homosexuality not being a biblical tenant of the way.

Look, flat out the bible does NOT say that we cannot JUDGE people, we must do it within the confines of the scriptures is all.

Judge not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1

This verse is one of the most misused verses in the bible.

 

[Jerrell]

Maybe you should dig into your Bible a bit deeper.

Man is not to lay with man as he lays with woman.

Not to mention, sodomy is mentioned as a sin in the Bible.

Homosexuals have no business leading anything in a church. How can someone be a minister, claim to understand and read the Bible, and then outright sin.

And I also believe that anyone who is openly homosexual is not called by God to do any sort of work within the church, period.

I don't believe the Lord would call a gay man to preach or a lesbian woman to teach.

I've noticed that the Church is known to single out homosexuals, but let's not limit this to just homosexuals. Pastors who commit ANY form of fornication should be viewed in the same light as homosexuality.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

I've noticed that the Church is known to single out homosexuals, but let's not limit this to just homosexuals. Pastors who commit ANY form of fornication should be viewed in the same light as homosexuality.

I completely agree.

 

[Jerrell]

I think it's fair to assume that unmarried hetrosexual candites for ministry experience sexual temptation. We do not bar them from ministry. Why would it be any different for a homosexual person who resists temptation?

Interesting. But then the question would be, can they ever be delivered from homosexuality? But then again that depends on whether one beleives Homosexual attraction is or is not a sin.

 

[TimRout]

Although Conservative Evangelicals do not permit homosexuals to participate in ministry I am witness to the fact that this is not always true. There are many homosexuals pastors, I know some of them, and not only that but there are openly homosexual ministers of music leading worship in Church. Now perhaps this is because I am referring to a majority black baptist church but I am very sure that this is not limited to just Black Baptist Churches. But let's not limit it to just homosexuals because there is a growing problem of bisexuality in the Church.

I cannot speak to the conservatism of your church since I have no knowledge of it. Neither can I speak to the broad canvas of the Baptist world.

I can tell you that in my experience as a Pastor with the Fellowship Of Evangelical Baptist Churches in Canada, we absolutely will not credential any practicing homosexual. On one occasion, I met a non-practicing gay man who was serving as a Lay Pastor in one of our churches, but to my knowledge he was not ordained. If one of our independent congregational churches decided to step apart from FEBC policy and hire a practicing gay person onto their ministry staff, I would be amazed if it didn't cost them their membership with our denomination.

But no, I am strictly referring to people who struggle with homosexual feelings but dont act on them. But that is another good topic to discuss.

While there is no specific technical impediment to such a person being ordained with our denomination (as far as I know), it would be very difficult to find a church willing to hire, nevermind ordain him. And of course, the lesbian issue is somewhat moot since we do not have female clergy.

 

[Jerrell]

Digging a little deeper into the Bible is always good advice.
I was digging pretty deep into Matt. 7:1 just a while ago.

God Bless!

Just because somebody states what the Bible says does not mean they are judging. Keep in mind the Bible also says "Judge righteous judgment" John 7:24.

 

[Jerrell]

I cannot speak to the conservatism of your church since I have no knowledge of it. Neither can I speak to the broad canvas of the Baptist world.

I can tell you that in my experience as a Pastor with the Fellowship Of Evangelical Baptist Churches in Canada, we absolutely will not credential any practicing homosexual. On one occasion, I met a non-practicing gay man who was serving as a Lay Pastor in one of our churches, but to my knowledge he was not ordained. If one of our independent congregational churches decided to step apart from FEBC policy and hire a practicing gay person onto their ministry staff, I would be amazed if it didn't cost them their membership with our denomination.
While there is no specific technical impediment to such a person being ordained with our denomination (as far as I know), it would be very difficult to find a church willing to hire, nevermind ordain him. And of course, the lesbian issue is somewhat moot since we do not have female clergy.

This is interesting and it makes me think. I used to question, why wouldn't a person who is close to God be totally delievered of their sin? Why save the person and not change them? But then I remembered that while we are in the flesh, the flesh will want what the flesh wants- saved or not.

There is a pastor down here where I live that was caught having sex with another pastor. Not too long later he was preaching a revival that my Church was invited to. Not only that but another pastor has children by some of his members. Really? Why do we even wonder why young people are leaving the church when the leaders are doing any and everything?