4004 Bc

[dad]

dad, science cant test the unfalsifiable. Your spirit world is unfalsifiable just like all the Greek and Norse gods.

Hey, Moonlancer, a same state future is unfalsifiable. So is a same state past. Therefore, by your standards, what is built upon it is myth. I agree.

Oh and please give info on what a past state is, and what the peruses state was like, and how it is the different methods of dating confirm each other so well if the state has changed.

The radioactive decay methods, or light speed measures are restricted to this temporary state. Therefore have virtually no relevance in real time past the dawn of history or so. To confirm or deny the universe state of the future or the past, one needs an observer. Science is like that. It has none. That leaves it hanging up to dry, till it blows away one day. It's prophesies are false, and it's premises are shadows in a dream zone.

God observed creation, and the state of the future, and told us about them to some degree. Nothing I see in science causes me to doubt at all. On the contrary.

 

[MoonLancer]

The radioactive decay methods, or light speed measures are restricted to this temporary state.

and you have shown no other state to exist.

Therefore have virtually no relevance in real time past the dawn of history or so.

Nice try, the history is written in the rocks of time.

To confirm or deny the universe state of the future or the past, one needs an observer.Science is like that.

wrong, science is not like that. YOU need evidence before you can say any different state exists. You are avoiding stating a direct definition of what a state is, the properties of the states in the past and how the evidence found today matches with these other states.

It's prophesies are false, and it's premises are shadows in a dream zone.

Coming from the guy who wont directly address his own claims. You have nothing. That's why you have been avoiding the topic for weeks now. YOU don't even know what state is. You don't know what a state would have to look like to reconcile with the data science has uncovered. If you try you know you will get caught in an error because you know your just making stuff up and not providing the specifics.

God observed creation, and the state of the future, and told us about them to some degree. Nothing I see in science causes me to doubt at all. On the contrary.

nope. in fact you created your state idea to hand wave reality. Its your way of denying what you know to be true. sad. Please get better.

 

[dad]

and you have shown no other state to exist. Nice try, the history is written in the rocks of time.

No other state exists..here...now. Why would you think anyone could show that one does? If we are talking in the far future, please inform us how you think you know what will be??? Or the created state of the past, either one.

If you claim a same state in the future, or past you must do the showing! I simply point out it is unknown to the present knowledge of men. What struggle so hard with the obvious? You can't do anything but admit it, or ignore it!

wrong, science is not like that. YOU need evidence before you can say any different state exists. You are avoiding stating a direct definition of what a state is, the properties of the states in the past and how the evidence found today matches with these other states.

No other state exists for men. We are right here. One cannot define an object using just one line to measure. We cannot define eternity by using the temporal lines we know. To get the picture, we must add the spiritual. The spiritual is the missing link between this state and the eternal one. Since we are in a physical only realm, dimension, and state, if we talk about the far past, or future, it CANNOT be defined by temporal state realities of the present. Our lines are here to define us.

If science wants too preach on the great beyond, and imagine what it will be like, or the far past, they need to show that our rulers, and measures, and realities, and laws and light of this state applied! They can't do that. They have simply looked at how it is, and devised cunningly crafted fables of a future and past, from that, and only from that.

Coming from the guy who wont directly address his own claims. You have nothing. That's why you have been avoiding the topic for weeks now. YOU don't even know what state is. You don't know what a state would have to look like to reconcile with the data science has uncovered. If you try you know you will get caught in an error because you know your just making stuff up and not providing the specifics.
nope. in fact you created your state idea to hand wave reality. Its your way of denying what you know to be true. sad. Please get better.

I have zero need, or desire to hand wave this present reality anywhere. It is here. The issue is you hand waving a same state future, thereby frying out the whole universe, or waving in a same state past, stuffing the universe into a speck!

I am on the side of evidence and reason, and intelligence and knowledge.

 

[mpok1519]

I am on the side of evidence and reason, and intelligence and knowledge.

No.

You aren't.

whats that one commandment? Thou Shalt not Lie?

hmmm.....

 

[dad]

No.

You aren't.

whats that one commandment? Thou Shalt not Lie?

hmmm.....

Of course I am. Don't accuse falsely, or make a god out of so called science. There is no evidence of a same state past, FYI, that is merely assumed. Really. It may be time you face the facts.

 

[uke2se]

Of course I am. Don't accuse falsely, or make a god out of so called science. There is no evidence of a same state past, FYI, that is merely assumed. Really. It may be time you face the facts.

Dad, that is not how evidence, science or even reason works. If you make a claim that something exists or have existed, you'd better have proof of it, or it is merely an assertion. You are fabricating an argument with these "states" which are completely unsupported by any research, just so you can avoid losing face in an internet-debate. I think that's the very defenition of "dishonesty".

If you seriously want anyone to take your "states" argument seriously, put up or shut up. Do the research, or pay someone to do it. Until then, your "states" argument has the same scientific validity as me claiming the moon is made of cheese, and that there's a cover-up trying to prevent people from knowing the truth.

 

[MoonLancer]

If you claim a same state in the future, or past you must do the showing!

au contraire. All the dating methods align and already show this. Because if another state existed, the dates would night align.

Your in check good sir. Please provide evidence of a different state.

I simply point out it is unknown to the present knowledge of men.

except that for the dating methods...

You can't do anything but admit it, or ignore it!

actually you have been in check for a good few posts now, refusing to explain what a past state is, and the properties of any of these other past states. If they existed they would manifest in the rocks and light of the universe.

One cannot define an object using just one line to measure.

I am glad you pointed that out. NEVER is just one dating method used. Many are used to so never is a single line used it is too easily broken. Many lines are used to intertwine the truth into a strong cord that goes far far back.

To get the picture, we must add the spiritual. The spiritual is the missing link between this state and the eternal one.

like the tooth fairy? because the tooth fairy is akin to your spiritual. Its unfalsifiable and offers no tangible or substantive truth to speak up. its akin to making stuff up. So i don't know how making stuff up correlates to getting the full picture of how old the universe is.

If you want to say that a spiritual state existed before this reality. fine. I cant show that you your wrong, or right. But i can show that the universe or this state is 13.5 billion years old. before that you can have all the spirit states you want.

they need to show that our rulers, and measures, and realities, and laws and light of this state applied!

well consider that we can today see the formation of the universe... if you have a specific claim as to what occurred to light in order to invalidate this, please clarify. Otherwise your just blowing hot air.

I am on the side of evidence and reason, and intelligence and knowledge.

don't forget the spirit state which you claim is needed to discover the truth of the universe... oh and the tooth fairy. without her you will never know exactly what happened.

 

[mpok1519]

Of course I am. Don't accuse falsely, or make a god out of so called science. There is no evidence of a same state past, FYI, that is merely assumed. Really. It may be time you face the facts.

The fact is you assume that physics worked differently 6000 years ago when God created the universe.

FYI, its time to face the fact that you are the only one with this cockamani theory that littlerally spits in the face of truth.

FYI, there is plenty of evidece to suggests that physics have always worked the same way in the same universal state.There, however, is no evidence, of a different universal state/past universal state. You assume that the universe worked differently 6000 years ago. This, however, is not true, and you assume ideas are true based on no factual pretense other than what you say is religiously motivated and has no true motive to exhibit any real knowledge truth or logic.

Thou shalt not lie again; thats twice you've broken this commandment within only hours.

 

[GeneSplicer]

Wow David. Still pushing your violent split/merge snuff fantasy online?

Well, at least you haven’t tried to push it on the various Physics forums online, anymore. I think being banned from two of them, one for threats of violence against other members, would be enough.

Have you gotten to the part of your split/merge fantasy where you get to go forth and murder non-Christians en mass?

How about the servitude of Christian women as concubines?

How about the marriage of Jesus?

What about the borg-city of gold that measures thousands of miles tall and wide?

On a side note, I did hear a bit of bad news in regards to your website. It appears that Yahoo is planning to shutdown Geocities. This means that you will have move your website to another host. Do you plan on revamping it first?

For those interested in Dad’s website:
The Split
Treasure City Christian resources
Treasure City Christian resources

For a recap of how David Enjay, or Dad, described his vision of Jesus’ return, you can search for his own words on PhysForum Science, Physics and Technology Discussion Forums (Powered by Invision Power Board) or listen to this:
The Shallow Gene Pool Website Review - The Split/Merge - A Journey of Discovery from the The Shallow Gene Pool podcast

Enjoy.

Gene S.

 

[dad]

Wow David. Still pushing your violent split/merge snuff fantasy online?

Well, at least you haven’t tried to push it on the various Physics forums online, anymore. I think being banned from two of them, one for threats of violence against other members, would be enough.

Have you gotten to the part of your split/merge fantasy where you get to go forth and murder non-Christians en mass?

How about the servitude of Christian women as concubines?

How about the marriage of Jesus?

What about the borg-city of gold that measures thousands of miles tall and wide?

On a side note, I did hear a bit of bad news in regards to your website. It appears that Yahoo is planning to shutdown Geocities. This means that you will have move your website to another host. Do you plan on revamping it first?

For those interested in Dad’s website:
The Split
Treasure City Christian resources
Treasure City Christian resources

For a recap of how David Enjay, or Dad, described his vision of Jesus’ return, you can search for his own words on PhysForum Science, Physics and Technology Discussion Forums (Powered by Invision Power Board) or listen to this:
The Shallow Gene Pool Website Review - The Split/Merge - A Journey of Discovery from the The Shallow Gene Pool podcast

Enjoy.

Gene S.

Hey there buddy, how you doin? I am giving that site a rest, till the nazi mod moves on. Maybe check it one day for kicks.

As for your women servants, .. no idea what you are talking about. As for Jesus, He is the Bridegroom, of course, sorry if that is strange news to you. By the way, you think I was banned somewhere? News to me. Not that I care much. I assume that you7 consider talk of God taking over a threat of violence. I can tell you, too bad! Get over it. Nothing anyone can do about it.

Are you in usual stalker mode here, or do you care about addressing the OP? You are a barrel of laughs.

 

[Nathan Poe]

By the way, you think I was banned somewhere? News to me. Not that I care much. I assume that you7 consider talk of God taking over a threat of violence. I can tell you, too bad! Get over it. Nothing anyone can do about it.

Actually, David, there is something Gene can do about it -- he can post links to your rantings on other forums, and let us see for ourselves who should/should not be taken seriously.

I think he should -- I'll admit, my curiousity is piqued.

 

[mpok1519]

he addressed the OP by reitterating what we've all been saying -- the fact of whatever Dad said, is not true.

 

[dad]

The fact is you assume that physics worked differently 6000 years ago when God created the universe.

Fact is I do not see any evidence physics existed. Have any? That is what this temporal universe has...temporary rules to govern the state. No one says it changed. The universe changed. Phisics is what we ended up with.

FYI, its time to face the fact that you are the only one with this cockamani theory that littlerally spits in the face of truth.

Tell, us then, what is the truth? Your fables spit in the face of God.

FYI, there is plenty of evidece to suggests that physics have always worked the same way in the same universal state.

Really? That's what you think. Look into it sometime. If you ever get up to speed and think you know your stuff, come back and debate.

There, however, is no evidence, of a different universal state/past universal state. You assume that the universe worked differently 6000 years ago. This, however, is not true, and you assume ideas are true based on no factual pretense other than what you say is religiously motivated and has no true motive to exhibit any real knowledge truth or logic.

Thou shalt not lie again; thats twice you've broken this commandment within only hours.

There is plenty of evidence that things were different that was actually, not dreamed up, as modern so called science does, but recorded in the anals of ancient man. Top that. All evidence is on God's side.

 

[dad]

Dad, that is not how evidence, science or even reason works. If you make a claim that something exists or have existed, you'd better have proof of it, or it is merely an assertion.

All scenarios of a future and past are built on the idea that this present universe fabric, and laws are what will be and was. In no way can that be proven. Yet it is assumed as the very basis of so called sciences. They better have proof of it, according to your standard, and I agree. Thanks for that.

In the unknown future, where we do not observe or test, making any such claims as science is truly foolish. To believe the time tested word of God, that has worked well and strong in billions of real lives, and His power observed, is doing so with the strongest possible evidences.

You are fabricating an argument with these "states" which are completely unsupported by any research, just so you can avoid losing face in an internet-debate. I think that's the very defenition of "dishonesty".

You are dreaming in kodachrome. I fabricate nothing. I simply use logic, and evidence and the histroy and bible we do have to conclude what is obvious. The obvious that has been right under man's nose, and eluded him for so long, as he was led down the garden path of foolish fables and doctrines of devils.


If you want the foundation of so called science to be taken seriously, prove the same state depends on existed, and will exist, or stop believing the made up ungodly and absurd tales that result.

 

[dad]

Actually, David, there is something Gene can do about it -- he can post links to your rantings on other forums, and let us see for ourselves who should/should not be taken seriously.

I think he should -- I'll admit, my curiousity is piqued.

Actually Nat (my name is not david by the way, Gene is deluded somehow) the forum he comes from is a free for all, of rude atheists, mostly. A gloves off street fight, and one talks there a different way than here. I wouldn't recommend the cesspool to anyone here. In that atmosphere, one dishes out a bit what one receives. To snip a few quotes and put them on a civilized forum, is a fruitless endeavor.

 

[dad]

au contraire. All the dating methods align and already show this. Because if another state existed, the dates would night align.

Not true. There is only one dating method, when the dust settles. And it is same state assumption based.

Decay is a feature of this state. Light also, as we know it, and our laws, etc. To enforce them on the future, you need to prove that this state universe will exist! You can't. Do not be in denial of the obvious, to defend the ridiculous.

actually you have been in check for a good few posts now, refusing to explain what a past state is, and the properties of any of these other past states. If they existed they would manifest in the rocks and light of the universe.

A strange and wrong notion indeed. How would a missing spiritual factor manifest in a physical rock? Do tell!

I am glad you pointed that out. NEVER is just one dating method used. Many are used to so never is a single line used it is too easily broken. Many lines are used to intertwine the truth into a strong cord that goes far far back.

Sorry you missed the point. Anyhow, the temporal state based in box methods begin and end in the box! They can't punch out, and measure eternity and beyond. That is so true I almost get a Buzz off it.

like the tooth fairy? because the tooth fairy is akin to your spiritual. Its unfalsifiable and offers no tangible or substantive truth to speak up. its akin to making stuff up. So i don't know how making stuff up correlates to getting the full picture of how old the universe is.

Me either! So leave the tooth fairy, and same state past out of science! Thanks for that.

If you want to say that a spiritual state existed before this reality. fine. I cant show that you your wrong, or right. But i can show that the universe or this state is 13.5 billion years old. before that you can have all the spirit states you want.

No. A spiritual AND physical state!! Jesus was both when He rose from the dead! He always will be the same. That is the true forever state.

well consider that we can today see the formation of the universe... if you have a specific claim as to what occurred to light in order to invalidate this, please clarify. Otherwise your just blowing hot air.

Untrue, we see far away stuff. Doing what stuff in a temporal physical only universe is wont to do. To assume that went on for billions of imaginary years and accounts for all things is the height of silliness.

don't forget the spirit state which you claim is needed to discover the truth of the universe... oh and the tooth fairy. without her you will never know exactly what happened.

Science will never know, you mean! Believers and savvy folk have clues.

 

[uke2se]

All scenarios of a future and past are built on the idea that this present universe fabric, and laws are what will be and was. In no way can that be proven. Yet it is assumed as the very basis of so called sciences. They better have proof of it, according to your standard, and I agree. Thanks for that.

While it can't be mathematically proven, there's absolutely NO reason to believe otherwise, unless you have a dogma to push. As you do, of course you are going to lie and fabricate in order to do it. It's standard MO for most creationists, after all. I always find it hilarious how fundamentalists never have any problems breaking the 9th commandment, as long as it's "lying for Jesus".

In the unknown future, where we do not observe or test, making any such claims as science is truly foolish. To believe the time tested word of God, that has worked well and strong in billions of real lives, and His power observed, is doing so with the strongest possible evidences.

Quite the opposite. The Word of God is not tested in any scientific way, nor is it observed by the vast majority of human beings, scientists or lay-men. It is simply not scientific, and it is not relevant for the majority of people on earth. Sure, most people have some sort of religion, but not Christianity. You have NO evidence.

You are dreaming in kodachrome. I fabricate nothing. I simply use logic, and evidence and the histroy and bible we do have to conclude what is obvious. The obvious that has been right under man's nose, and eluded him for so long, as he was led down the garden path of foolish fables and doctrines of devils.

Again, you are determined to lie in order to make a point. What you claim goes AGAINST logic, not with it. You are contradicting observed history, except where it happens to coincide with your crack-pot theories. I'm sorry, but you are either a full-blown pathological liar, or you could be classified as legally insane. It's a black-and-white situation here.

If you want the foundation of so called science to be taken seriously, prove the same state depends on existed, and will exist, or stop believing the made up ungodly and absurd tales that result.

The foundation of science IS taken seriously. YOU aren't. The reason science is taken seriously is BECAUSE IT WORKS, and it has a very good track-record. Your crack-pot theory hasn't.

 

[MoonLancer]

Not true. There is only one dating method, when the dust settles.

name this one and only dating method, and I will point out another. and then you will be wrong.

Decay is a feature of this state

Your right. this earth has about 4.3 billion years of decay. Because decay is the feature of this state we can tell just how old it is. 4.3 billion at the minimum.

To enforce them on the future, you need to prove that this state universe will exist! You can't.

I already did. Multiple dating methods would not give a single date if another state interfered. So now its your turn to prove another state exists.

Do not be in denial of the obvious, to defend the ridiculous.

coming from the guy who thinks spirits are the only way to understand science? yeah...

How would a missing spiritual factor manifest in a physical rock? Do tell!

how would one show that fairies exist when they play Trixy games that makes it seem like they don't exist? Trixy fairy's always changing states on us. Sadly its the only way for science to work though is to understand fairy's.

Me either! So leave the tooth fairy, and same state past out of science! Thanks for that.

wha? but the tooth fairy is needed for science!!! when you think you understand spirits its the Trixy fairies laughing at you. they made up your religion as a game. If you truly ask the fairies, they will tell you, but you have to believe in them first and be sincere when you ask otherwise it wont work.

and ps dad get help. Please get help. In all honestly i think you need counseling or at least someone to talk about your problems with.

 

[mpok1519]

dad get a hobby

 

[Nathan Poe]

Actually Nat (my name is not david by the way, Gene is deluded somehow) the forum he comes from is a free for all, of rude atheists, mostly. A gloves off street fight, and one talks there a different way than here. I wouldn't recommend the cesspool to anyone here. In that atmosphere, one dishes out a bit what one receives. To snip a few quotes and put them on a civilized forum, is a fruitless endeavor.

Oh, I don't know -- I suspect it would be very enlightening.

Of course, you may be right -- even so, what harm can come from letting us see for ourselves?